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If God manifested himself, how would you know that it was God?

Achilles6129

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So here's a question for all to ponder: Suppose that God manifests himself in some sort of physical or spiritual revelation, to you personally, you and a group of people, or to the entire planet. How would you know that this was God? How would you know, for instance, that it wasn't some sort of alien with super-advanced technology pretending to be God?

A follow-up question for antitheists: If a personal manifestation/appearance of God wouldn't prove to you that God exists (since there could always be another explanation - aliens or whatever), then what sort of proof would you accept that God exists?
 

Davian

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So here's a question for all to ponder: Suppose that God manifests himself in some sort of physical or spiritual revelation, to you personally, you and a group of people, or to the entire planet. How would you know that this was God? How would you know, for instance, that it wasn't some sort of alien with super-advanced technology pretending to be God?
Or, simply your imagination playing tricks on you. That is possible, and far more parsimonious, and consistent with the evidence at hand.
A follow-up question for antitheists: If a personal manifestation/appearance of God wouldn't prove to you that God exists (since there could always be another explanation - aliens or whatever), then what sort of proof would you accept that God exists?

Dunno. I can only try to imagine that if a god is sufficiently god-like, then it would be able to figure that out.
 
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Paradoxum

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I don't think you could know it was God.

Is it necessary to believe there is definitely a God, if there is a God. If I accept that a god like being exists, is that not acceptable?

It wouldn't be able to prove it created the universe, but if it can seem omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, and good, then does it matter if it made the universe?

If such a being consistently showed itself to be reliable, then we might end up trusting it just like we do with friends. Though a little doubt might be good, just in case.

If there is a God, is religious reverence right, or should God be considered fundamentally our equal? I think the latter might be best. :)
 
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juvenissun

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So here's a question for all to ponder: Suppose that God manifests himself in some sort of physical or spiritual revelation, to you personally, you and a group of people, or to the entire planet. How would you know that this was God? How would you know, for instance, that it wasn't some sort of alien with super-advanced technology pretending to be God?

A follow-up question for antitheists: If a personal manifestation/appearance of God wouldn't prove to you that God exists (since there could always be another explanation - aliens or whatever), then what sort of proof would you accept that God exists?

When a person talked to you over the phone, how do you know the person is your dad or mom?
 
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Rawtheran

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So here's a question for all to ponder: Suppose that God manifests himself in some sort of physical or spiritual revelation, to you personally, you and a group of people, or to the entire planet. How would you know that this was God? How would you know, for instance, that it wasn't some sort of alien with super-advanced technology pretending to be God?

A follow-up question for antitheists: If a personal manifestation/appearance of God wouldn't prove to you that God exists (since there could always be another explanation - aliens or whatever), then what sort of proof would you accept that God exists?

Ok well for me personally to know if it was God or not I would test the spirits as the Bible commands us and ask the spirit if it was from the spirit of God that sent his only son Jesus to die for this world. Next if it was God and it revealed itself to me I would listen to what it had to say.
 
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Roonwit

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So here's a question for all to ponder: Suppose that God manifests himself in some sort of physical or spiritual revelation, to you personally, you and a group of people, or to the entire planet. How would you know that this was God? How would you know, for instance, that it wasn't some sort of alien with super-advanced technology pretending to be God?

A follow-up question for antitheists: If a personal manifestation/appearance of God wouldn't prove to you that God exists (since there could always be another explanation - aliens or whatever), then what sort of proof would you accept that God exists?
This really depends on your philosophical starting points. If your starting point is yourself, you really can't know anything at all. There is almost nothing I can prove just starting from myself. I can't even prove that I exist. The most I can perhaps prove is that this thought is being thunk. 'Knowledge' becomes 'whatever I find it most convenient to believe'.

If you want a slightly less strict understanding of 'knowing' then you need to allow a starting point outside yourself. If God exists, then God will be the starting point. God has revealed himself through the Bible and through Jesus and through the Holy Spirit. The non-believer will immediately say, "But how do you know the Qur'an's revelation is not the real one? Or the Bhagavad Gita's?" But as I look at the Christian message, it is the one that seems the most self-consistent and empirically verifiable (I'd point to the Resurrection of Jesus, for example).

It's not my purpose here to attempt to prove Christian faith - and even if I tried, I couldn't prove it, even to myself, let alone to someone who was not open to believing it. But I am saying that as I look at it, if I allow that God might be the starting point for all knowledge rather than me, then I find the case for accepting the revelation of God through Jesus to be the most compelling.

Having done that, if I receive a revelation that appears to be from God, my way of assessing it is by comparing it with the revelation that God has already given through Jesus. If it accords with that, then there is no reason to assume it is not from God. If it does not, then I would be inclined to reject it.

That's the short answer.

Roonwit
 
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pdudgeon

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So here's a question for all to ponder: Suppose that God manifests himself in some sort of physical or spiritual revelation, to you personally, you and a group of people, or to the entire planet. How would you know that this was God? How would you know, for instance, that it wasn't some sort of alien with super-advanced technology pretending to be God?

A follow-up question for antitheists: If a personal manifestation/appearance of God wouldn't prove to you that God exists (since there could always be another explanation - aliens or whatever), then what sort of proof would you accept that God exists?

My sheep know my voice. How do they know the voice of God, you ask?
Simple.
They know His voice because:
1. they are active listeners.
2. they are expectant listeners.
3. they are experienced listeners.

(and right there ^ is someone's next three point sermon for Sunday.:) )
 
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WoundedDeep

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So here's a question for all to ponder: Suppose that God manifests himself in some sort of physical or spiritual revelation, to you personally, you and a group of people, or to the entire planet. How would you know that this was God? How would you know, for instance, that it wasn't some sort of alien with super-advanced technology pretending to be God?

A follow-up question for antitheists: If a personal manifestation/appearance of God wouldn't prove to you that God exists (since there could always be another explanation - aliens or whatever), then what sort of proof would you accept that God exists?

For the first question, you can apply the instructions of apostle John as quoted here:

"The Spirit of God is known by this: every spirit who confesses that Yeshua The Messiah has come in the flesh is from God. 3And no spirit that does not confess that Yeshua has come in the flesh is from God, but this is from that False Messiah, him whom you have heard that he will come, and already he is in the world." (1 John 4:2-3)

You can simply ask the spirit if it can acknowledge that Yeshua is the Messiah and is God in the flesh. To be sure, you might even ask the spirit to say out verbally that Yeshua is the Messiah and is God manifested in flesh.

Since I am a believer of Jesus Christ, I won't answer the second question.
 
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Ken-1122

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So here's a question for all to ponder: Suppose that God manifests himself in some sort of physical or spiritual revelation, to you personally, you and a group of people, or to the entire planet. How would you know that this was God? How would you know, for instance, that it wasn't some sort of alien with super-advanced technology pretending to be God?

A follow-up question for antitheists: If a personal manifestation/appearance of God wouldn't prove to you that God exists (since there could always be another explanation - aliens or whatever), then what sort of proof would you accept that God exists?

If a voice came from the sky claiming to be the God, weather he is God or an evolved being from another planet with advanced technology wouldn't matter to me; what would matter is what does he want.

As an atheist, the idea that what people originally believed to be God was actually an advanced alien from another planet, and what people currently call God being just an extension of what people previously called God; this would make a lot of sense to me.

Ken
 
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Ken-1122

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Ok well for me personally to know if it was God or not I would test the spirits as the Bible commands us and ask the spirit if it was from the spirit of God that sent his only son Jesus to die for this world. Next if it was God and it revealed itself to me I would listen to what it had to say.

My sheep know my voice. How do they know the voice of God, you ask?
Simple.
They know His voice because:
1. they are active listeners.
2. they are expectant listeners.
3. they are experienced listeners.

(and right there ^ is someone's next three point sermon for Sunday.:) )

Suppose it were God but not the God you worship so knowing his voice, or the test of the spirits as according to the bible doesn't work. What would it take for you to recognize you were wrong about God all this time?

K
 
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Kylie

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When a person talked to you over the phone, how do you know the person is your dad or mom?

They behave in a manner consistent with what I expect from my mum. I suppose we could also establish certain code phrases and responses.

As for what would convince me that some being is a god, well, if it really was a God, I'm sure it would know what would convince me, even if I can't think of a particular thing.
 
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Kylie

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Ok well for me personally to know if it was God or not I would test the spirits as the Bible commands us and ask the spirit if it was from the spirit of God that sent his only son Jesus to die for this world. Next if it was God and it revealed itself to me I would listen to what it had to say.

Just out of curiosity, what tests are these? Can you give me the passages and verses please?
 
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TillICollapse

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This actually happened to me, and I think the OP question is an excellent one.

I have had several events happen to me that I would consider miracles, or supernatural in nature (although I dislike the term supernatural as it implies something not-natural lol), etc. I've typed them up before in posts (probably last year) so I won't type them again (if someone is interested, I'll look for the links) ... anyways those events at times have involved manifestations and/or communication with what I would recognize as "God".

For the sake of the post, assume I'm not delusional, and that regardless of your stance on such matters, assume for a moment that I actually did witness and experience SOMETHING ... something that may not have a simple Occam's Razor explanation.

The obvious question is "Well how do you know that it's God" ? Why not an alien, time traveling humans, etc and so forth ? Because realistically, even if a being appeared before you, performed a miracle, and said, "I'm God" ... there is so much ambiguity and claims concerning that term "God" throughout history, how would you know this really was "God", and even if it were, are there others ? How would you know if it was lying or not ? Suppose you had five such beings, all a little different, suddenly appear and all claim to be "gods". Well, how would you know which is which ? With nothing to compare them to, how do you know *what* they actually are ? Even with written accounts dating back centuries, still ... how do you know they aren't lying ? At what point would you accept their own claim about themselves ?

Personally, I think ANY sort of entity that showed intelligence at least equal to or surpassing our own, that was dramatically different from any known organism, would require a level of faith and belief in order to accept their claims about themselves. The idea of a humanoid alien appearing in a spaceship of some sort, and telling us what system it's from ... would still require a level of belief, but would be more easy to accept because we can RELATE to it. We can relate to space travel, and advanced technology. Plus, it's humanoid. However a being that would be dramatically different from us, would involve Arthur C. Clarke, it would be indistinguishable from "magic". It could claim to be a god, alien, time traveler, whatever ... if we had NOTHING else to compare it to, it would require a level of faith and trust. We would either accept it's claims, or substitute our own.

Which brings me back to my own experience, and one of the reasons I brought it up.

There have been a few times in my life, when I experienced those specific "miracles" and supernatural events which I concluded and believed involved "God", where I experienced a strange response from my own physical body. I realize I'm going to describe "feelings" here, but please know that in my experiences I am not referencing "feelings" alone. I wouldn't waste someone's time with "feelings as evidence" esp in this forum lol. However, I do want to bring up this response from my own body:

I experienced my body respond, almost like instinct, to an "Alpha" type of presence. And not just any alpha, but like, THE Alpha.

Most all of us can relate to how we respond to different types of personalities. Some cower in the presence of certain types of people, or get nervous, or get star struck, or get confident, some we naturally lead, others we may find ourselves wanting to follow. We respond certain ways around the opposite sex, or other animals ... both domestic and wild. I mean, we have certain "natural" responses. Like instinct. And I've been around wild predators with no fence between me and them ... predators above me in the food chain (lions, cheetahs, etc), so I know the raw reaction of being those circumstances as well.

What I experienced the few times I've experienced that "Alpha" presence I would attribute to "God" is different and unique in every way from the way I respond to humans, animals, etc. It's as though a part of me is responding to something original, foundational, fundamental ... as though I'm responding to the Apex being of my species. The "first", the originator. I would describe it as part of my own instinct that I didn't even know was there, suddenly coming alive, kicking into action, and perking up in the presence of such a being. It's more than being drawn to such a presence, it's literally like responding to it. It's hard to describe, because there is nothing else like it. There is nothing else to compare it to directly, only indirectly. There was a presence of what I recognize as "God", that invoked an almost instinctual response from me, as though I was recognizing the unique alpha of my species.

I've known some others who have experienced that as well, and so I may argue that "How would we know when we are dealing with "God" " ? ... perhaps there is a specific type of presence to where your body responds in an instinctual manner, to where it's not about knowing, it's about responding and recognizing that clear and obvious response. Like any animal that recognizes certain things instinctually, viscerally, primally. Your body will respond accordingly, it's not a mental issue. How will you know when you are on fire ? How will you know when you are drowning ? How will you know when you are underneath a bus ? How will you know when you have been bitten by an animal ? Etc and so forth. It's not necessarily a mental issue primarily, that is secondary. Your body will respond primarily, perhaps, if a specific presence and experience is presented.
 
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JGG

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Suppose it were God but not the God you worship so knowing his voice, or the test of the spirits as according to the bible doesn't work. What would it take for you to recognize you were wrong about God all this time?

K

This is what I was going to ask. Suppose it was not the god you were expecting? Is there a way to identify that a god you didn't previously believe in is truly God?
 
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WoundedDeep

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Suppose it were God but not the God you worship so knowing his voice, or the test of the spirits as according to the bible doesn't work. What would it take for you to recognize you were wrong about God all this time?

K

Anyone who tests the spirit according to the instructions of 1 John 4:2-3 would be able to know, without any doubt. This test never fails unless you use it wrongly out of ignorance or refuse to use it in its entirety. Simply put, a spirit that cannot admit that Jesus is the Messiah that came in the flesh is not from God. There are two important points in here: first that Jesus is the Messiah and second, Jesus is God made flesh. A spirit that fails to acknowledge any one of the two points is an antichrist spirit.
 
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juvenissun

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They behave in a manner consistent with what I expect from my mum. I suppose we could also establish certain code phrases and responses.

As for what would convince me that some being is a god, well, if it really was a God, I'm sure it would know what would convince me, even if I can't think of a particular thing.

So you need to know God first in order to recognize His manifestation.
 
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Ken-1122

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Anyone who tests the spirit according to the instructions of 1 John 4:2-3 would be able to know, without any doubt. This test never fails unless you use it wrongly out of ignorance or refuse to use it in its entirety. Simply put, a spirit that cannot admit that Jesus is the Messiah that came in the flesh is not from God. There are two important points in here: first that Jesus is the Messiah and second, Jesus is God made flesh. A spirit that fails to acknowledge any one of the two points is an antichrist spirit.

You're not getting it. Hypothetically speaking; suppose the Bible and the religion of the bible is a fraud, and the real God is a God that you are not familiar with; a God that you have been ignoring all this time because you were too busy focusing on the wrong God? What would it take for you to recognize you were in error all this time?

Ken
 
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Ken-1122

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So you need to know God first in order to recognize His manifestation.
I disagree! If God knows all things; he will know what it will take to convince an atheist, a skeptic, or any doubter of who he is. If he is unable to do that; why call him God???

K
 
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WoundedDeep

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You're not getting it. Hypothetically speaking; suppose the Bible and the religion of the bible is a fraud, and the real God is a God that you are not familiar with; a God that you have been ignoring all this time because you were too busy focusing on the wrong God? What would it take for you to recognize you were in error all this time?

Ken
A wrong hypothesis cannot ever be proven anyway, so what you hypothesize will not happen with true believers of God. Any error, to be recognized and corrected, needs to be counteracted by absolute truth. That is my answer.
 
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WoundedDeep

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I disagree! If God knows all things; he will know what it will take to convince an atheist, a skeptic, or any doubter of who he is. If he is unable to do that; why call him God???

K

I was an atheist and I was convinced later on by my experiences and the reality around me that God is who He claims to be in the Bible. Some people refuse to be convinced because they have pride or stubbornness in their heart. As much as God gives the ability to understand Him, God also does not forbid resistance to His counsel. No truth can be forced on someone in denial or stubbornness, and this is not God's fault.
 
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