If God made you a boy, you are a boy

[Ringo84]

No. I was referring to the girls who were de-transitioning. I listened to their testimonies, and in my own personal opinion, many of them were forced.

What about the havoc transitioning puts on another's body when they are being pumped full of hormones? It's a cancer risk. Does their health not matter?

I have made my convictions clear.

This seems pretty desperate to me. "B-b-b-b-b-but the cancer risk!" It's like grasping at whatever you can to "prove" that transitioning is "dangerous" or bad.

I've made mine perfectly clear as well, and they're unlikely to change.
Ringo

 

[RileyG]

This seems pretty desperate to me. "B-b-b-b-b-but the cancer risk!" It's like grasping at whatever you can to "prove" that transitioning is "dangerous" or bad.

I've made mine perfectly clear as well, and they're unlikely to change.
Ringo

What but but but? I've listened to testimonies that shaped my views. I also personally know a man who transitioned to a woman and back to a man again. His sexuality is gay but he came off as more feminine than masculine. He now sees himself as mostly male.

I respect transgender people as people (I may not necessarily agree with their decisions which I think are spiritually and physically harmful) and ultimately feel sympathy for them.

My convictions are also unlikely to change.

 

[miamited]

Hi @ChristianForCats

Sex is determined by the 46th chromosome unless the person has both the male and female reproductive systems - in which case the baby is intersex, not a boy or a girl, for genetic reasons. How would you want these people to be treated when they use the public restrooms of their choice? Do you think it is Christian to tell them, "You are in the wrong bathroom," because they look feminine?

Well, is this some genetic anomaly that has only happened in all of creation for just the last 10 years?

God bless,
Ted

 

[RileyG]

Hi @ChristianForCats



Well, is this some genetic anomaly that has only happened in all of creation for just the last 10 years?

God bless,
Ted

Sex and gender are two different things according to modern psychology (NOT biology).

Sex= your chromosomes (male or female)
gender= how you identify as man or woman

 

[GodLovesCats]

Well, is this some genetic anomaly that has only happened in all of creation for just the last 10 years?

I was speaking for everyone who has any kind of rare genetic anomaly. Whatever congenital defect is, we have no reason or right to say those people do not matter just because they are a very tiny minority of all humans. That is ungodly behavior, even if it is something like having both reproductive systems or gender dysphoria at birth that politicians attack every year via legislation.

 

[BPPLEE]

I am familiar with it, and forcing someone to de-transition based on peer pressure seems pretty sickening to me.
Ringo[

Forcing? how? They were probably never transgender to begin with considering how low gender dysphoria occurs in the general population. LGBT+ has only become "trendy" and cool within the past decade or so.

Transgenderism became the new thing after gay marriage was legalized. Gay marriage was just a battle the war was not over and another fight was needed. Another cause. Another way to raise money another minority group. It's the slippery slope argument. When you accept absurdity the absurdity will only get worse. Acceptance is not enough now they want this taught in pre school. They will not stop when one concession is made they will push for more

 

[miamited]

Hi @ChristianForCats

I was speaking for everyone who has any kind of rare genetic anomaly. Whatever congenital defect is, we have no reason or right to say those people do not matter just because they are a very tiny minority of all humans. That is ungodly behavior, even if it is something like having both reproductive systems or gender dysphoria at birth that politicians attack every year via legislation.

The biggest 'fact' that I find in the Scriptures to deal with this is that God Himself has told us that He made us...both male and female, He made us. He doesn't happen to mention the 'non' gender class. Now, maybe that's because He didn't know it was ever going to come up.

I think that the people of the world have been able to satisfactorily handle this issue of using any particular bathroom pretty well for the last 5-6k years. What is happening today is relating to this issue of 'woke'. We now believe that we're smarter. That we've got issues to deal with that just never happened before and in order not to step on anyone's delicate sensibilities, new rules have to be made. Sorry, I'm not a part of that. If, on the day that you came from your mother's womb, you were determined to be a male or female child, according to God's testimony, that's all He made, then you should be satisfied to live out your life as God created you.

All of those people do matter, of course. But 'mattering' doesn't mean that we have to create a whole new identity and set of rules and laws to deal with their particular issue regarding their God given and created sexual identity. I think we've got the cart and the horse in the wrong order. We want to change all of society to deal with a few that are, for whatever reasons, uncomfortable with their sexual identity. When, I believe, what we really need to do is try to find out what makes someone so uncomfortable with their sexual identity and work to 'fix' what is causing them anxiousness regarding their sexual identity that they can be what God created them to be.

This is a result of 'hedonism' as a large part of living a satisfying life. Someone, for whatever reason, decides that they just can't be a happy, healthy human being unless society addresses their particular nuance of existence. What we are experiencing in this phenomenon is exactly what Paul addresses in his last words of what we divide as the first chapter of his letter to the Roman believers. Because of their faithlessness, God has turned them over to every kind of depravity of their heart. Not only do they do such things but others give approval of the things that they do.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi @RileyG

Sex and gender are two different things according to modern psychology (NOT biology).

Sex= your chromosomes (male or female)
gender= how you identify as man or woman

Yes, and I suppose it escapes you that you have to explain what all this means 'according to modern psychology'. What if 'modern psychology is really wrong about how God wants us to deal with these issues? God's word says...I'm speaking now with what God has said about human sexuality and not even considering what 'modern psychology says...that He created them male and female. So, as I understand, God, and anyone who claims to be a child of God, understands that there are only two sexes and it is determined at whatever point each one believes that God created that person. Once again, the Scriptures say that He created them male and female. Male and female He created them. I mean, it's one of those truths that God even repeats for those who are slow in class and may have missed the words and the implications thereof.

All other explanations, truly, are just the workings of the wicked heart that the Scriptures are clear, is what we are working with within ourselves. Only God is righteous and good and as far as I'm aware hasn't made any mistakes. Man, on the other hand, is replete with wickedness and mistakes from pretty much the beginning of his life to the end of it, unless and until, one is born again. That's born with the Spirit of God indwelling his body and leading him into all truth and righteousness, and condemning all sin and unrighteousness.

So I'm curious. According to your definition, did God create two sexes or two genders?

God bless,
Ted

 

[BPPLEE]

Sex and gender are two different things according to modern psychology (NOT biology).

Sex= your chromosomes (male or female)
gender= how you identify as man or woman

Gender is male or female. It is assigned at birth. It's on your birth certificate. How you identify is something else. You can call that guy beating all the girls in the swimming pool a female all you want but he is still a male except in his own mind. In reality he probably knows it too

 

[GodLovesCats]

All of those people do matter, of course. But 'mattering' doesn't mean that we have to create a whole new identity and set of rules and laws to deal with their particular issue regarding their God given and created sexual identity. I think we've got the cart and the horse in the wrong order. We want to change all of society to deal with a few that are, for whatever reasons, uncomfortable with their sexual identity. When, I believe, what we really need to do is try to find out what makes someone so uncomfortable with their sexual identity and work to 'fix' what is causing them anxiousness regarding their sexual identity that they can be what God created them to be.

What I want is everyone exhibiting Christian behaviors toward transgenders so that they will be accepted, respected, and loved the same way as anyone else whose behavioral anomaly is genetic. Laws don't need to be changed; intersex people already have equal rights. Society needs to change its treatment of them. That is putting the horse in front of the cart.

My preference is to limit who can have sex change surgery to transgender adults who need to be neutered or spayed anyway and men who have a blocked ureter.

 

[miamited]

Hi @BPPLEE

Gender is male or female. It is assigned at birth. It's on your birth certificate. How you identify is something else. You can call that guy beating all the girls in the swimming pool a female all you want but he is still a male except in his own mind. In reality he probably knows it too

I think we have to make a choice as to how we handle an individual's sex or gender, whichever word suits anyone's particular fancy, as regards sports involvement. One's participation in sports is determined by their biological sex, gender in the first hour of their birth. Or all sports become non-gender, sex, so that girls and boys compete with and against each other in all sports.

There are no male or female sports teams or participation. You have football, basketball, hockey, ski, skating teams, etc., that all have whoever, either male or female, that the coach wants to put on the team. Of course, I can see the first issue, since men were created generally with more body strength than women, that players will soon be suing teams for not having enough men or women, whichever is short on a particular team.

As far as how one 'identifies', hey someone can call themselves a teapot if it makes them feel valued. I mean, that's always been the command of God for humankind to live. Whatever floats your boat!

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi @ChristianForCats

What I want is everyone exhibiting Christian behaviors toward transgenders so that they will be accepted, respected, and loved the same way as anyone else whose behavioral anomaly is genetic. Laws don't need to be changed; intersex people already have equal rights. Society needs to change its treatment of them. That is putting the horse in front of the cart.

First of all, 'everyone' is never going to exhibit 'christian' behaviors towards anyone. Most of the people are lost in this world and they aren't about to listen to anyone tell them how a 'christian' would behave in addressing most all issues. So, I think you should be more specific as to 'who' it is that you want to exhibit 'christian' behavior. As far as I'm aware, the only people who will be exhibiting what I guess you are referring to as 'christian' behavior will be those who are born again. Everyone else is going to exhibit worldly behavior and no one should expect anything more of them.

What exactly is it that born again believers are doing that is not 'christian' behavior. Was Paul's condemnation of all the sin in the world and how people were going to be giving approval, supposed to be taken as a 'christian' value. That he was telling us, born again believers, that we should be approving of all this sexual dysfunction that has risen among society?

I hear what you're saying and I'll wait for you to give me some examples of what exactly is the behavior that you think christians are displaying that is not 'christian'. I still say that you're wrong. Born again believers do not need to be changing how they feel or think about sexual aberrations. Those with sexual aberrations need to understand that what they are doing is against the will of God for their lives. Now, I absolutely agree that such correction and rebuke should be done with all the loving care and concern that one can muster, but this idea that christians need to accept and approve of sinful lifestyles is not something I've read as a 'christian' value in the Scriptures.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Original Happy Camper]

So who created intersex people?

IMHO sin

 

[Archivist]

You originally said: "What about those .05% of babies who are born intersex, literally both male and female? Doctors often make the decision as to whether they will be boys or girls. Sometimes the doctors make the wrong decision."

Have you looked that up to see what causes it?

"True hermaphroditic humans do not exist, but pseudohermaphrodism does, where an individual has both male and female external genital organs, sometimes at the same time. Female embryos exposed to high levels of androgens (the male hormones) develop female internal reproductive organs but male external genitalia. Alternately, genetic defects cause children to be born with female external genital organs, which change at puberty, with the development of a penis and the closure of the false vagina."

Read more: Hermaphrodite - Hermaphrodism In Humans - Female, Male, Sex, and Organs - JRank Articles Hermaphrodite - Hermaphrodism In Humans

This is an abnormality that occurs while the fetus is developing. It's one of many types of birth defects that take place.

Hermaphroditic humans do not exist? It is an older term, but yes, they do. You might learn more from medline than from a .org site: Intersex: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

According to Paul, Adam and Eve were real people. According to Luke, Jesus' lineage traces back to Adam. When it comes to viewing Genesis 1 through 6, some people conjecture that it's metaphorical. But there's no Biblical support for that.

And, as I said before, you are entitled to your opinion.

What I wrote, doesn't correlate with what you said I wrote.

Sure it did.

I said you might as well view anything you want that's in the Bible as metaphorical, if you're going to take that approach. A great many Christians don't even read the Bible, much less study it. Can you name a Bible scholar or theologian who's thoroughly studied the Bible, who says Genesis 1 though 6 is metaphorical?

Well, this Christian has read the Bible cover-to-cover more than a dozen times, and like many Christians I believe that it includes metaphors.

I brought up Adam and Eve, because they were God's original design. If you want to know how God designed humans and why he designed them that way, you'll find that out in what the Bible says about the creation of Adam and Eve. Unless you want to view that as a fairytale. Then you can come up with whatever suits your fancy.

And you are entitled to your interpretation, just as I am entitled to mine. And no, I NEVER said that anything in Scripture is a “fairytale.”

 

[GodLovesCats]

IMHO sin

Sin is not the Creator. God is. Try again.

 

[Archivist]

Because the Bible says that by his death and resurrection, the Messiah corrected what Adam's disobedience caused, that condemned mankind. If the story of Adam and Eve and is just a fairytale, then the whole mission of the Messiah had no foundation.

Once again, I NEVER said that anything in Scripture is a “fairytale.” Stop making stuff up.

 

[Ceallaigh]

You're singling out "transsexualism" because it's the 'flavor of the month' sin to focus on to the exclusion of everything else.

It's the topic of this thread, and yes it's a sin.

Maybe if the church spent more time helping to end homelessness and poverty than obsessing over people's genders

In the 50 years I've been in the church system, the subject of transsexualism hasn't ever taken precedence over anything. Whereas I do a lot of walking and driving around the city I live in, and I see churches feeding and caring for indigent and homeless people on a daily basis.

younger people than me would not be moving away from it.
Ringo

I got the impression that you're a young man, but I wasn't sure since you're using an 81 year old musician as your username and avatar. I think you should learn more about Christianity and what the Bible says, rather than coming up with excuses for leaving it to join the world.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Once again, I NEVER said that anything in Scripture is a “fairytale.” Stop making stuff up.

You have been saying people and places in the Bible weren't real. So what's left except a fairytale?

 

[Ringo84]

It's the topic of this thread, and yes it's a sin.



In the 50 years I've been in the church system, the subject of transsexualism hasn't ever taken precedence over anything. Whereas I do a lot of walking and driving around the city I live in, and I see churches feeding and caring for indigent and homeless people on a daily basis.



I got the impression that you're a young man, but I wasn't sure since you're using an 81 year old musician as your username and avatar. I think you should learn more about Christianity and what the Bible says, rather than coming up with excuses for leaving it to join the world.

I think that instead of condescending about my age and my level of knowledge about Christianity, you should stop treating people differently because they're not like you. That's what the Bible calls us to do.
Ringo

 

[miamited]

Hi @Original Happy Camper

IMHO sin

I agree that a lot of the medical maladies of life are a result of the effects of sin on creative processes. Take as an example, for those who take a literal interpretation of the Scriptures, the first generation from Adam would have had to marry brothers and sisters. God makes no condemnation of sin in that, in that day. However, as we move further from the beginning and sin has taken a pretty strong hold on life on the earth, God does condemn close family sexual relationships. Now, He doesn't make any inference that He forbids them because of any genetic issues, but we do know that today, incestual sexual relations can quite often create birth and genetic issues.

That can only be explained, for the born again believer, as a result of how sin has marred people even down to their very basic building blocks. So, I rather imagine that as with most issues, there can be multiple causes. Sin breaking down the genetic makeup of fetal tissue and DNA replication, is likely a very real cause. But there is also the issue today of trying to be more accepting of people who just 'feel' different about their bodies and their sexuality. That too, is sin, but not genetically motivated, but pride and lust motivated.

God bless,
Ted