quote=Doubt3312;Okay, I'm just going to lay it all out on the table. Here goes...
God created mankind. Mankind has a sinful nature. Therefore, God created mankind with a sinful nature.
Not exactly. Man
acquired that sinful nature, but it is true God
allowed it to happen. He is after all, omniscient & omnipotent.
Then, God tells mankind "if you sin, you'll go to hell" (whether he physically sends man there or not), or, as many have said, die.
Yeah, consequences can be hell.
Some have argued that we have a choice in the matter, that people choose sin and/or hell. Well, no one in their right mind would ever choose hell, or death. As for sin, how can someone be faulted for choosing something that is in his/her nature?
Exactly, mankind is not in it's right mind since Adam, unless of course God in His mercy regenerates their stillborn spirits unto the salvation of eternal life & the faith it provides us to be victorius over our own sinful natures as well as devices of the enemy.
There is a strange double standard that exists here. God is "perfect," and he demands that humankind emulate him and also be perfect, but then he designs us to be imperfect? According to the idea of original sin, we're born imperfect!
Dream the Impossible Dream. The gap between idealism & realism takes imagination to straddle. It's a perfect set-up for character building.
Then, of course, the response is always that he has provided us a way out through the "death" of Christ. How many people died before that time, though?
t didn't make much of a practical difference being as it was, He freed the believers among them right after He died.
How many people live without ever hearing the gospel? If god loves every individual, then why doesn't every individual get an equal chance at making this supposed choice? We don't. Just being born outside of the Western world guarantees that this "choice" will be nearly impossible (I say nearly because there are always exceptions) to make, because it will require the person to radically alter their mind away from everything they've been inundated with since childhood.
My pleasure to inform you of your mistake on this point:
Psalm 19
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1] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
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2] Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
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3] There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
"The glory of God" is the gospel, not His estimation of Himself.
If God hates sin so much that he's willing to deny the people he supposedly loves as his own children from having eternal life, then why create sin in the first place?
It's not exactly a creation of His, but I get your drift. He allows it.
And that stuff you've heard about Him thinking of every single human being to ever exist as His children, isn't the truth. Eph1:4 sorts them out for you. The Flood sorted many of them out of existance but one of Noah's daughters in law had nephilim blood too, so the need for an armageddon.
Or, why create a sinful nature in humanity? Yes, I know the response that love is better if "chosen," and that he gave us a choice. But, don't you see, there is no choice either way. People who hear the gospel don't choose to hear it, other people choose to bring it to them. People don't choose the culture or the thought structure they're born into.
Right. Sort of. We do get a choice but like our being an "independant & unique creature" it is predestined to be. Predestination simply means that an omniscient, omnipotent creator knew exactly what He was about to do (create) & what would happen in it from beginning to end in complete detail. The hard part is accepting hoe humbling that is sense of self.
If god foreknew that people (whom he supposedly loves beyond our comprehension) were going to suffer, die, and end up in hell (whatever hell is), then why create them in the first place? Furthermore, why ensure those negative results by giving us a sinful nature?
22] What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
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23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, (Rom9)
If, as a parent, you knew your child would suffer throughout life and die a miserable death, would you still choose to have that child? If yes, why? To make yourself feel better? I frequently hear that god does things to reveal his glory... not only does that sound egotistic (which, by the way, egoism is in many ways opposite of love) but it contradicts the idea of him being benevolent and all loving.
Again, He is eveyone's creator, but NOT everyone's perent. Only believers.
Part of the definition of love - true love - is putting someone (or many others) above yourself. Putting their concerns and well-being above your own.
He sacrificed His only begotten Son. What more do you require?
So, if god created people with a sinful nature, then condemns them for sinning, then provides a single avenue for redemption that he knows few people will have access to, and he does all of this to prove his own glory (I can't help but wonder who he's trying to prove anything to), then I submit he is not benevolent. Either God is love, or he is the deity I've just described. He cannot be both simultaneously.
Again, He did not creat humanity with a sinful nature, but He did allow it to happen, so it is a part of His pre-creation plan.
This leaves us with only two options. Either God does not exist, or our theology concerning him needs serious revision.
Responses?
I hoped I helped with the theology revision part.
