If God loves us, why does he send us to hell?

[Uncle Floyd]

you are wrong, because your interpretation of hell is not correct. Thats okay, I use to think how you think. God does not torture innocent people, because they do not believe in Christ. Such a doctrine, is fictional not biblical, based of misconceptions of the bible, in my opinion.

That's true. It is fictional. That's why the Bible doesn't say that innocent people go to Hell or that people go to Hell for not believing in Christ, but that sinners go to Hell as punishment for their sin.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Krnbrasha. God loves us, and Jesus died to pay our debt to God`s Holy Law, and reconciled us to God. God gave us His Commandments, and we have free will to either follow them, or ignore them. Ask yourself, Krnbrasha, if we do not want to return to God, and we have free will to do so, or not, but if we do not want to return to God, (no matter why) what do you think God can do? God will not force us, and there is only left that we go our own way. Hell is where Satan rules and all his followers, but Jesus told us of a place in Outer Darkness, without God`s Love or Light. Where else do you think we could go? Jesus died that we might live, He is our Saviour, and unless we want to follow Jesus back to God, where we came from, there is only Outer Darkness. We ourselves decide whom we follow, our Saviour Jesus, or we go our own way. The only way is Outer Darkness, away from God and our brothers and sisters. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Heavens]

If God loves us, why does he send us to hell?

He doesn't.
God saves us from hell.

I would have pointed out that the above statement isn't God's Word. I don't know whose word it is or why they said it, but it is of the enemy.
As a leader of our youth, come against that with what God says. Which is;

(Joh 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(Joh 3:17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
(Joh 3:18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(Joh 3:19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

I don't see how you could go wrong here
Blessings!

 

[sniperelite7]

If God loves us, why does he send us to hell?

He doesn't.
God saves us from hell.

I would have pointed out that the above statement isn't God's Word. I don't know whose word it is or why they said it, but it is of the enemy.
As a leader of our youth, come against that with what God says. Which is;

(Joh 3:16)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(Joh 3:17)For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
(Joh 3:18)He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(Joh 3:19)And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

I don't see how you could go wrong here
Blessings!

So millions of people are now rotting in eternal hell/seperation because either A)The Gospel Never Reached Them or B)They where raised in the belief of their culture and the name of Christ could have just been another telemarketer to their ear?

The message Armistead14 raised a couple of posts back is one helluva a point. One that needs to be addressed. Lest we serve a cosmic joker.

 

[Walter Kovacs]

*coughwhatsanyonethinkofthiscough*

“Christ is the judge; and yet, from another point of view, it is we who pronounce judgment upon ourselves. If anyone is in hell, it is not because God has imprisoned him there, but because that is where he himself has chosen to be. The lost in hell are self-condemned, self-enslaved; it has rightly been said that the doors of hell are locked from the inside. How can a God of love accept that even a single one of the creatures whom he has made should remain for ever in hell? There is a mystery here which, from our standpoint in this present life, we cannot hope to fathom. The best we can do is to hold in balance two truths, contrasting but not contradictory. First, God has given free will to man, and so to all eternity it lies in man’s power to reject God. Secondly, love signifies compassion, involvement, and so, if there are any who remain eternally in hell, in some sense God is also there with them. It is written in the Psalms, ‘If I go down to hell, thou art there also’ (139:7); and St. Isaac the Syrian says, ‘It is wrong to imagine that sinners in hell are cut off from the love of God.’ Divine love is everywhere, and rejects no one. But we on our side are free to reject divine love; we cannot however, do so without inflicting pain on ourselves, and the more final our rejection the more final our suffering” (Kallistos Ware, The Orthodox Way, pp. 135-136).

"Holy wrath” sounds like an oxymoron/contradiction to the contemporary mind, but it is an inseparable part of the biblical portrayal of God’s holiness. How should a holy God respond to evil? Complete indifference to evil by anyone amounts to moral bankruptcy, but this would be especially so for God. This is widely recognized even by atheists, agnostics, and philosophers who frequently ask “Why does God allow it?!” of evil. God's implacable opposition to every form of moral evil is disturbing and even offensive to so many, largely because this kind of opposition inevitably reaches the human heart that beats within. It reaches into you; it reaches into me. It seems that God cannot win the popularity game with us. If he does not resist evil, he is evil. If he resists evil, he resists us and we resent him for that. God's anger is not the uncontrollable and disreputable outburst of passion that human anger often is, but instead is a holy and blameless opposition to all that is destructive of selves, societies, and environments (i.e. sin). Yet God does not merely desire to oppose and chasten; he desires to heal us. Still, mercy must not be separate from opposition to evil, or God is indifferent to evil once again. God’s holiness is a holy wrath as equally as it is a holy love or it is bankrupt because it is impotent to eradicate evil. Traditional Christian eschatology sees this tension as having eternal consequences. It is hard to see how God could provide a heaven for anyone if it included those who eternally would refuse to turn to evil. It is hard to imagine a heaven with malevolent hatred, eternal strife, jealousy, child molestation, theft, etc. Even heaven cannot be without all such things unless all those who populate it are willing to at least approximate doing the will of God rather than their own while residing there. If God’s policy is merely to forgive and let everyone continue to live as sinfully as they wish throughout eternity, then everyone is going to hell! (or at the very least, heaven would be no better than the present world). God’s call, often ignored, doubted, partitioned, or otherwise explained away is “repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand; repent, or ye will all likewise perish.” C. S. Lewis claimed that in the final judgment there will be only two classes of people: those who say to God "Thy will be done" and those to whom God will say "thy will be done." I tend to imagine a river of tears flowing from God’s eyes in the latter case. Here yet again the holiness of God is often challenged. Especially here! Yet those who know God are more than reasonable to suspect that the judge of all the earth will judge rightly."

“Hell will not be seen as an evil, but as the place where those who reject Christ are still cared for by Christ –and not simply as Lord and Judge but as Savior and Healer… we should not forget that God placed upon Cain a sign for his protection, even though he was condemned to wander in a far country… God will punish our transgressions, but he will not remove from us his steadfast love or be false to his faithfulness (Ps 89:31-34)” (“Heaven and Hell” in Bloesch, Donald, Essentials of Evangelical Theology, Vol. 2, pp. 211-234)

“Man is in hell not because God is absent but because he is present, and therefore man is constantly reminded of his guilt and infamy. Hell is exclusion from communion with God, but not exclusion from the presence of God (we interpret 2 Thess 1:9 as referring to an exclusion from man’s side but not from God’s side. Man shuts himself off from the salvation of the Lord and from the glory of his might, but he cannot escape from this glory (Phil 2:9-11). Cf. Revelation 14:10 which speaks of sinners in hell being tormented ‘in the presence of the Lamb…’”

 

[Hentenza]

you are wrong, because your interpretation of hell is not correct. Thats okay, I use to think how you think. God does not torture innocent people, because they do not believe in Christ. Such a doctrine, is fictional not biblical, based of misconceptions of the bible, in my opinion.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7524730/

Innocent people that do not believe in Christ? Are you the judge of who is innocent?

 

[Uncle Floyd]

Innocent people that do not believe in Christ? Are you the judge of who is innocent?

I love listening to WretchedRadio when Todd interviews people on the street. It always ends up with the same thing: "...OK, you've just admitted that you are a liar, a thief, an adulterer, a murderer, and a blasphemer. Based on that, do you believe God will find you innocent or guilty?", Todd will ask. And invariably, they'll respond, "Oh, I'll be innocent."

Incredulously, Todd will say, "But you just admitted to doing all those things. How can you be innocent".

And the person will launch into some convoluted explanation of how they've done some good deed or how they're not as bad as someone else, or how God is going to suspend the rules just for them.

What it goes to show (to me, at least), is that Romans 1 is correct when it says that every man knows instinctively that he is sinful, but is so spiritually blind that he will acknowledge his own sinfulness out of one side of his mouth, but then defend his innocence out of the other.

Ironically, the more man proclaims his innocence, the more he testifies to his own depravity.

 

[Armistead14]

Hell, biblical truthful answers.

Bible Threatenings Explained

 

[Heavens]

The message of hell is complex. It's use is commonly mistranslated using our english terms in the bible. There's a reason you'll never find Paul once using eternal hell or torture in any of his books. If this is a real place of eternal torment for the lost, why wouldn't Paul even mention it?

Many, and rightfully so wonder why God would create such a place. What justice comes from torture. God knew everything from eternity past before he created our world. If hell is true, then he knew he would place the majority of man in hell. Only God's power could place a man in hell.

No man honestly chooses hell or would want to go there. When Christ said he was the ONLY way to heaven, when did those words take effect? Most would agree then. That limits the very nature of the gospel, because it would've doomed the majority of man to hell after he died. After Christ, the gospel spread slowly in that region, took another 400 years just for it to reach Europe, another 1000 years before it reached the outskirts of other nations, yet millions lived and died following the beliefs of their culture. Did these millions go to hell because they died without Christ?

The issue arises, Christ is the only way, yet millions never heard the gospel. Many wrongly say they will be judged another way other than Christ...well then, then Christ isn't the only way. Then the made up doctrine that children aren't accountable, another gospel teaching Christ isn't the only way. The fact is most born are raised as children to believe the religion of their country, but somehow despite their culture, they're to shed all they were taught when they reach a certain age or go to eternal torture. They will no more do that than you or I would shed our beliefs.

Then we ignore the human factor. In every culture at birth children are indoctrinated to the beliefs of that culture. A child born in Iran will be trained and taught to believe Islam, China, buddist, ect.. When a person is trained and lives in a culture where their parents teach them the religion of that culture...90% will follow trusting their parents. Somehow when they become adults, they're supposed to undo all those years of belief of their parents, grandparents, ect. If you or I were born in Iran, we would have a 90% chance of being muslim. So salvation becomes the luck of the draw. In some of these nations you would die to even preach the gospel.

It seems belief isn't about sincerity or love of God. Hitler tortured millions of jews that loved God, yet they didn't believe Christ. They prayed in their torture, they were sincere in the beliefs of their parents and culture. How sad after they died to face a God they loved to only have him cast them to hell. God will be worse than Hitler for them if hell were true. There were 1000's of tribes or cultures after Christ that never heard or regetted the gospel and the sword brought to bear on them...thus the old christian saying.."to hell with them."

Ands of course most the gospel spread with a bible in one hand and a sword in the other. Torture, fear and guilt were tools used to convert.

Anyone that would truly study hell from a greek biblical view on historical and cultural levels can easily see man mistranslated it's meaning and created a tool from pagan beliefs to control his fellow man. The evil hell of torture came about when religion and politics mixed. I spent most my life as a Baptist and believed in hell, it's teachings. When questions arose, I started doubting it. Then open study based on biblical facts, history, politics, ect...it became clear hell as a place of torture was created by man. It barely had a grip in christianity until the power of Rome took on aspects of christianity, doctrines changed...and they had what they needed to control...they also started mass torture in the name of God themselves, after all, if God can do it, why not man in God's name. Most today will say these men were wrong, yet still believe a doctrine created by them.

Yes, hell is the grave.
Yes, people go there, sheep go there, grasshoppers go there, tares go there... that's the way it works. Burned up. Gone. Pfft!

Is God at fault in destroying what He created? Isn't He the potter and we the clay? Did He "lose" anything with those who never knew to choose Him? No. Mourning them is for the lost, let the dead bury the dead.

As Christians, our rejoicing is in being chosen Heirs to the Kingdom of God. For that I am thankful into all eternity. So let them know if you love them. Take the gospel to the lost. Save them in Christ's name.
That's all there is to it

Blessings!

 

[Heavens]

So millions of people are now rotting in eternal hell/seperation because either A)The Gospel Never Reached Them or B)They where raised in the belief of their culture and the name of Christ could have just been another telemarketer to their ear?

The message Armistead14 raised a couple of posts back is one helluva a point. One that needs to be addressed. Lest we serve a cosmic joker.

Yes. All sorts of things that God created perish. We live in a world of entropy. Birth, reproduction, death. Everyone and everything. Except those who believe upon Jesus. There is no such thing as a cosmic joker.

 

[sniperelite7]

Innocent people that do not believe in Christ? Are you the judge of who is innocent?

No, but we could potentially use that small smidgeon of gray matter between or ears to comprehend what defines "innocence". Now a question has been poised that I don't think has been answered. Are people who have never heard the word of Christ. People who never stood of a chance of even hearing it, in hell?

Edit(Heavans Answered)

and my reply. Your perfectly fine with God eternally damning people who never had a chance to choose his will? That sounds like a cosmic joke. Oh hey. Your in hell. Sorry my followers didn't reach you because the freakin compass wasn't discovered.

 

[Heavens]

No, but we could potentially use that small smidgeon of gray matter between or ears to comprehend what defines "innocence". Now a question has been poised that I don't think has been answered. Are people who have never heard the word of Christ. People who never stood of a chance of even hearing it, in hell?

Edit(Heavans Answered)

and my reply. Your perfectly fine with God eternally damning people who never had a chance to choose his will? That sounds like a cosmic joke. Oh hey. Your in hell. Sorry my followers didn't reach you because the freakin compass wasn't discovered.

You sound bitter. I've lost friends and family also to the grave. But we who choose life have no concern to mourn. Nor has God lost anything.
Read and learn from God. Then go ahead and reply to Him your problem. He'll just say this to you again...

(Rom 9:20) Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
(Rom 9:21) Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
(Rom 9:22) What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
(Rom 9:23) And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

 

[Armistead14]

In our english translations we accept hell as a place of eternal torture, that's biblically false. Throughout the bible hell in hebrew and greek meant either of two things, the grave or just a gloomy or bad time in life.

Jonah says, "Out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardst me. Here we see the absurdity of supposing sheol or hell to mean a place of punishment after death. The hell in this case was the belly of the whale; or rather the wretched and suffering condition in which the disobedient prophet found himself. "The pains of hell got hold on me: I found trouble and sorrow." Ps.6 3. Yet David was a living man, all this while, here on the earth.
We often do the same thing today, we use the same metaphors and wordings as they actually used them. Often a person will say.."my life is hell." Have a trained jewish orthodox priest read either the OT or the NT that he doesn't accept and he will tell you that everlasting torture can't be found in either.


In all the earliest Christian Creeds their is no mention of eternal everlasting punishment or torture, any study of the complex doctrinal shifts around 400-600 AD can see how the church mixed with politics redefined the concepts of hell as eternal suffering, instead of the grave and God's punishments became everlasting instead of corrective through a process of fire.

God's fire, whatever it is, certainly not literal, was always used biblically to judge and purify. We use many common words incorrectly such as sulfer and brimstone, both cleansing agents. Take torment, we correctly mistranslate it, a "torment" was the process of using stones to beat an item into perfection, not brutal beatings for no reason.

According to some, God sends people to hell to punish for sins, so

.the punishment for finite crimes is infinite punishment.

.the One who is infinite Love has finite patience-but patience is a quality of love! (1 Cor. 13;4)

.the One of infinite might has a plan that finite man can thwart.

Even Christ knew the men that regetted him and killed him lacked understanding...yet he forgave them.. We would deny Christ love to those based on many human factors that same forgivness.

Father forgive them, they know not what they do..Lk. 24.34

Very offensive is the teaching God will force all sinners to bow and confess Christ, Somehow it serves some purpose to God's ego? They reject the truth that God will reconcile all his creation and all will bow and willingly confess Christ....that God could get glory out of.

Every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord to the glory of the father. Phil:2.9

 

[Armistead14]

You sound bitter. I've lost friends and family also to the grave. But we who choose life have no concern to mourn. Nor has God lost anything.
Read and learn from God. Then go ahead and reply to Him your problem. He'll just say this to you again...

You're still ignoring his question, not about losing people to the grave, it's about the fact that the majority of man since Christ has never heard the gospel, even today millions haven't heard...

So are these condemned to hell just because they didn't get a chance to hear it.....?{not that I believe they're doomed either way.}

According to many children aren't doomed because they don't know what they do, they get saved by not being accountable. Others say God will judge them based on knowing his creation.."they are without excuse" Both clearly then state there are other names or methods other than Christ that get you into heaven, yet the bible says Christ is the only way.. ,

or you can atleast drop the hypocrisy and say God will throw them all in all, cruel as it is, least it would be consistant with your doctrine.

 

[Doubt3312]

In our english translations we accept hell as a place of eternal torture, that's biblically false. Throughout the bible hell in hebrew and greek meant either of two things, the grave or just a gloomy or bad time in life.

Jonah says, "Out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardst me. Here we see the absurdity of supposing sheol or hell to mean a place of punishment after death. The hell in this case was the belly of the whale; or rather the wretched and suffering condition in which the disobedient prophet found himself. "The pains of hell got hold on me: I found trouble and sorrow." Ps.6 3. Yet David was a living man, all this while, here on the earth.
We often do the same thing today, we use the same metaphors and wordings as they actually used them. Often a person will say.."my life is hell." Have a trained jewish orthodox priest read either the OT or the NT that he doesn't accept and he will tell you that everlasting torture can't be found in either.


In all the earliest Christian Creeds their is no mention of eternal everlasting punishment or torture, any study of the complex doctrinal shifts around 400-600 AD can see how the church mixed with politics redefined the concepts of hell as eternal suffering, instead of the grave and God's punishments became everlasting instead of corrective through a process of fire.

God's fire, whatever it is, certainly not literal, was always used biblically to judge and purify. We use many common words incorrectly such as sulfer and brimstone, both cleansing agents. Take torment, we correctly mistranslate it, a "torment" was the process of using stones to beat an item into perfection, not brutal beatings for no reason.

According to some, God sends people to hell to punish for sins, so

.the punishment for finite crimes is infinite punishment.

.the One who is infinite Love has finite patience-but patience is a quality of love! (1 Cor. 13;4)

.the One of infinite might has a plan that finite man can thwart.

Even Christ knew the men that regetted him and killed him lacked understanding...yet he forgave them.. We would deny Christ love to those based on many human factors that same forgivness.

Father forgive them, they know not what they do..Lk. 24.34

Very offensive is the teaching God will force all sinners to bow and confess Christ, Somehow it serves some purpose to God's ego? They reject the truth that God will reconcile all his creation and all will bow and willingly confess Christ....that God could get glory out of.

Every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord to the glory of the father. Phil:2.9

Let me try to break down your argument into a simple statement:

There is no hell, our ideas of hell today are residual of older superstitions used to coerce people into believing in God through fear.

There, is that right?

If so then I have some questions.

So the message of Christ's sacrifice is that, through belief and all that, we are saved from death?

Also, you bring up several interesting points which i've considered myself, about the exclusiveness of Christianity - that Christ is the only "path to God." How is it that babies, and people who've never had the opportunity to hear the gospel can logically and fairly be sent to hell? Don't give me the same old tired answer that it's because we're all sinners and we don't deserve eternal life. The argument doesn't stand because: did God not make us? Did God not create that sinful nature? If so, then how can we be faulted for it? It is like a painter using the color red on his canvas, then destroying the canvas for being red... it's a somewhat of a Catch-22.

Although your explanation that hell is a misunderstanding makes sense to this agnostic (how can anyone/thing be considered benevolent or loving if it tortures), I think the overall problem still exists. Death is still bad, even if it isn't quite as bad as hell. Why would a God who loves everyone unconditionally and equally only allow some people to have eternal life based upon the fluke of birthplace, culture, etc..

Interested in your opinion.

 

[99percentatheism]

The doors of the rooms in hell are locked from the inside.

A good perspective from Dinesh D'Souza.

 

[brightmorningstar]

God only sends to hell those who have chosen to go there. God wishes that none should perish but all come to repentance.
So the answer to the question could be that God honours the free choice He has given people.

 

[Timothew]

God only sends to hell those who have chosen to go there. God wishes that none should perish but all come to repentance.
So the answer to the question could be that God honours the free choice He has given people.

According to the scripture that you quoted yourself, those who do not come to repentance will perish, not go to hell. God doesn't send them to hell, they die instead of receiving eternal life.

This is according to the scripture that you posted yourself.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Accepted Timothew. I used hell as the oppsoite of eternal life with God/heaven.

 

[Doubt3312]

Will no one attempt to answer my questions? Should I start a new thread?