If God controlled quantum randomness...

[chris4243]

If God controlled quantum randomness, would that be sufficient to cause all the miracles claimed in the Bible?

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD.

 

[AV1611VET]

If God controlled quantum randomness, would that be sufficient to cause all the miracles claimed in the Bible?

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD.

Yes -- He could tell science to take a hike.

 

[Cabal]

If God controlled quantum randomness, would that be sufficient to cause all the miracles claimed in the Bible?

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD.

I would have thought not, seeing as the miracles don't take place on the quantum level.

That said, if (big if) an omniscient deity exists, what is uncertain to us would not necessarily be uncertain to it.

 

[TheReasoner]

I'd think so. If you could somehow control every aspect of matter you could possibly do pretty much anything at all.

Someone, I forgot who, said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

When it comes to God, whom we believe created this universe He is the one who set down it's laws. It makes practically no sense to me why so many seem to think He somehow needs to violate said laws in order to be God. A good programmer doesn't violate his own programming, he makes a good enough piece of software so that he doesn't need to violate his own coding later on. And what's more, a mathematician or physicist do not add arbitrary values to his or her equations just to make it a desirable answer. No, they make allowances for what is and work with that, as opposed to just adding random and unrelated things. Why would God break the laws He made? Is He too stupid to plan and make a product which allows for His input later on? I should think not.

 

[Cabal]

Someone, I forgot who, said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

Arthur C. Clarke.

 

[AV1611VET]

When it comes to God, whom we believe created this universe He is the one who set down it's laws. It makes practically no sense to me why so many seem to think He somehow needs to violate said laws in order to be God.

Then explain how the resurrection occurred, without any laws being broken.

 

[AV1611VET]

Arthur C. Clarke.

Fiction writer -- go figure.

 

[TheReasoner]

Fiction writer -- go figure.

Is he wrong? Show a flashlight or a cellphone to someone who has never seen modern civilization. Show them a plane. How can said person know if it is a technological or magical marvel?

Then explain how the resurrection occurred, without any laws being broken.

AV, have I claimed to be at the level of God's intellect? No. I have not. Nor will I.
I don't know how. If I did I'd have a plethora of nobel prizes and I'd be lauded as Einstein's intellectual superior by a magnitude approaching infinite.

AV, I don't know how. But that I don't know does not mean it is not possible. Say if you control the whereabouts of all atoms in the universe and know the precise chemistry and physics that make things tick. AND say also that you're capable of using all of this at your whim. Well, if so, then it should be a matter of merely getting the right components together in the right precise structure, add a bit of energy to get it going again and you'd have life. Extremely simplified of course. No laws broken though.
To us this is impossible. This might not be how He did it. But hypothetically it could conceivably be done by someone with infinite resources, intellect and capability. This does not describe me, nor the human race. So how can I know how God, whose intellect is infinite, did something when my own intellect is finite?

 

[Cabal]

Fiction writer -- go figure.

Ah, ok, I forgot being a fiction writer means nothing attributed to you is credible.

 

[AV1611VET]

Is he wrong?

Fiction writers technically aren't 'wrong' -- they're fictitious.

My reply to ...

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

... is: "Indistinguishable to whom? You?"

AV, have I claimed to be at the level of God's intellect? No. I have not. Nor will I.

Here -- let me do it for you.

The resurrection was a miracle -- not magic -- miracle.

When a miracle occurs, natural laws stand aside.

 

[AV1611VET]

Ah, ok, I forgot being a fiction writer means nothing attributed to you is credible.

His credibility took a hike when he called miracles, 'magic'.

 

[Cabal]

His credibility took a hike when he called miracles, 'magic'.

The quote was "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

stop arab-phoning yourself

 

[TheReasoner]

His credibility took a hike when he called miracles, 'magic'.

Technology is 'miraculous' AV?
I do not think you're so stupid as to misunderstand the quote as severely as you seem to pretend you are. So stop the charade AV.

Fiction writers technically aren't 'wrong' -- they're fictitious.

I assure you, he's a real person

That doesn't mean they don't have good points, AV. Was 1984 a pointless book? What about 'war and peace'?

My reply to ...

... is: "Indistinguishable to whom? You?"

Precisely, AV. Precisely.

If someone were to show you a device which could saaaayyyy, make apples pop out of thin air or levitate a person, or transport you instantaneously to another planet in another galaxy, or change your body shape into that of a dolphin, how would you know something supernatural wasn't taking place?

You wouldn't. By the same token, if God used the laws of nature to resurrect Christ it looks supernatural to us because we do not know better. This does not make it 'supernatural' - nor any less of a miracle. It would merely mean God made use of that which He has made.

Here -- let me do it for you.

The resurrection was a miracle -- not magic -- miracle.

When a miracle occurs, natural laws stand aside.

No-one is calling that "magic". So stop this senseless straw man tactic and start behaving like a decent person, please. Is that really too much to ask?

I was saying that if God could manipulate all matter in the universe at any given time it could be it would be a mere cakewalk to resurrect someone without breaking any laws of nature.

 

[AV1611VET]

That doesn't mean they don't have good points, AV. Was 1984 a pointless book? What about 'war and peace'?

How about the Bible, instead?

Even Pharaoh's professional magicians, who would make today's best magicians look like they're doing card tricks, recognized God's fingerprint when they saw it:

Exodus 8:19a Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God:

I'd like to see Alfred C. Clarke tell them, "It's indistinguishable from any sufficient technology."

They'd laugh him across the Nile.

 

[TheReasoner]

How about the Bible, instead?

Are you calling the bible fiction, or are you deflecting?

Even Pharaoh's professional magicians, who would make today's best magicians look like they're doing card tricks, recognized God's fingerprint when they saw it:

Exodus 8:19a Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God:

I'd like to see Alfred C. Clarke tell them, "It's indistinguishable from any sufficient technology."

They'd laugh him across the Nile.

Straw man. You're the only one talking about magic. Can we get back to the subject at hand, or do you want to keep barking up the wrong tree?

 

[Hespera]

If I were a god I'd want a better job than having to fuss about with every last atom in the universe.

 

[Naraoia]

If God controlled quantum randomness, would that be sufficient to cause all the miracles claimed in the Bible?

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD.

As much as I disbelieve in miracles, that's a brilliant idea. Someone should write sci-fi out of it

 

[AV1611VET]

As much as I disbelieve in miracles, that's a brilliant idea. Someone should write sci-fi out of it

Didn't Einstein say, "God doesn't play dice with the universe"?

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

 

[TheReasoner]

Didn't Einstein say, "God doesn't play dice with the universe"?

Yep. He did. If memory serves because he didn't accept quantum mechanics at the time.

 

[Naraoia]

Didn't Einstein say, "God doesn't play dice with the universe"?

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

Einstein said that because he found quantum randomness hard to swallow. But in the end, he didn't find a way to get rid of it. Nor did anyone else.