If God commands me to kill someone...

[JGG]

God's command is not to murder.

If God commands me to murder then.

The question you asked was not about whether we should kill if we believe that God has commanded, but about how we should respond if God has commanded us to kill. If God has commanded Muslims to kill infidels, then they are in the right to do so.

If I believe God commands me to murder someone, I should do it?

 

[RC1970]

God can lie?



Suppose it is not one man, but a group of men? A country?

I don't understand why we would require proof that God is commanding someone to commit homicide, but in other cases where we speak to God we take for granted that it really is God.

God cannot lie. It's not just His preference not to lie, He can't lie. Whatever God says is true just by the act of Him saying it. There is power in the God's words. If God were to say JGG is a frog, you would instantly become a frog.

If God truly commands something then it ought to be obeyed regardless of the number of people involved.

God has given a commandment "Thou shalt not kill" (were "kill" means murder or unjust killing). Now, if God were to command someone to kill, then the one being told would need to be absolutely sure that it was God who was commanding it, because only God can override His standing commands. And, with such a command, it would no longer be murder.

 

[Soyeong]

The Canaanites?

They were not killed because of their ethnicity.

When Moses killed an Egyptian it was against the law, and Moses knew it. He fled.

Indeed, Moses committed murder and it was wrong of him to do so.

So if God commands to me to commit murder I should do it?

God is the ultimate authority and He is just, so everything He commands is lawful, thus it is contradictory to say that He can command something that is unlawful. If God commanded you to justly administer the death penalty, then you should do it.

 

[JGG]

God cannot lie. It's not just His preference not to lie, He can't lie. Whatever God says is true just by the act of Him saying it. There is power in the God's words. If God were to say JGG is a frog, you would instantly become a frog.

But what if God lied with the intention of lying? Couldn't God also tell me I'm a frog while not actually turning me into a frog?

If God truly command something then it ought to be obeyed regardless of the number of people involved.

God has given a commandment "Thou shalt not kill" (were "kill" means murder or unjust killing). Now, if God were to command someone to kill, then the one being told would need to be absolutely sure that it was God who was commanding it, because only God can override His standing commands. And, with such a command, it would no longer be murder.

How would I make sure that it was really God? Why wouldn't I make sure that all of my commands came from God, why would I wait until I was asked to kill someone?

Suppose God didn't tell me, suppose God told my pastor to lead us in glorious warfare against the people at ComicCon? My pastor would certainly assure me that God has commanded us to annihilate the geeks. Do I go forth and do it?

 

[JGG]

They were not killed because of their ethnicity.

Genocide isn't just about ethnicity. It is killing a group of people based on some identity. Religion, for instance. That they were commanded to kill the Canaanites makes it genocide. The reason they were killed is irrelevant.

Indeed, Moses committed murder and it was wrong of him to do so.

Was it? Where was Moses condemned for it?

God is the ultimate authority and He is just, so everything He commands is lawful, thus it is contradictory to say that He can command something that is unlawful. If God commanded you to justly administer the death penalty, then you should do it.

So, how do you condemn ISIS if they believe God has commanded them to destroy non-believers or infidels? You would do the same if you believed God asked it of you.

 

[aiki]

God also commanded me not to kill people. Who am I to refuse that command?

Who indeed? I was only answering your hypothetical; I was not implying God would or has recently commanded anyone to kill someone else. In fact, because of the command to which you refer above, I don't believe God would now command any individual to kill another.

How would you know?

The revelation of Scripture tells me so.

If I believed God commanded me to kill someone, but you did not agree, would it still be a sin for me to deny God?

But, you see, I wouldn't agree that you were denying God. And this wouldn't just be my opinion. I would be able to refer to an objective source (the Bible) to show that my belief was warranted.

Again, he commanded Abraham. He commanded Moses. He commanded the Israelites. How can we say He would not command you or me? How can we say He has not commanded others we have condemned?

And the contexts within which those commands were given? Do you know what they were? Do you know why New Testament Christians do not adhere to the Old Testament covenant between Israel and Jehovah within which Jehovah-God's commands were issued? For some reason - ignorance mainly (and perhaps laziness, too), I think - non-Christians like to cherry-pick passages from the OT and impose them prescriptively upon NT believers as though there is no difference between the OT theocracy of Israel and the NT Christian Church. But there is a vast difference! And that difference makes all the difference when considering your line of questioning here.

Selah.

 

[RC1970]

But what if God lied with the intention of lying? Couldn't God also tell me I'm a frog while not actually turning me into a frog?



How would I make sure that it was really God? Why wouldn't I make sure that all of my commands came from God, why would I wait until I was asked to kill someone?

Suppose God didn't tell me, suppose God told my pastor to lead us in glorious warfare against the people at ComicCon? My pastor would certainly assure me that God has commanded us to annihilate the geeks. Do I go forth and do it?

What would be God's hypothetical motive for lying or telling you to kill?

God is not going to do these things without also making you certain.

And, if He wants me to go along with what He has told you to do, He would also have to make it certain to me.

Otherwise, I'm sticking with His previous command.

 

[RDKirk]

God commanded Abraham to kill Isaac. God commanded Moses to murder. God commanded the Israelites to commit genocide. God would not command murder or genocide again?

Not without a newer Covenant.

 

[JGG]

Who indeed? I was only answering your hypothetical; I was not implying God would or has recently commanded anyone to kill someone else. In fact, because of the command to which you refer above, I don't believe God would now command any individual to kill another.

It's a thought experiment. However, that we don't believe that God would do it does not lay out an absolute answer. God has commanded it before, it is not out of the realm of possibility that he would do so again.

The revelation of Scripture tells me so.

I don't understand. Aren't you using scripture to say that if we believe God commands us to kill someone, we have to?

But, you see, I wouldn't agree that you were denying God. And this wouldn't just be my opinion. I would be able to refer to an objective source (the Bible) to show that my belief was warranted.

Now I'm confused. God has commanded me to kill. You disagree, so I'm not denying God?

And the contexts within which those commands were given? Do you know what they were? Do you know why New Testament Christians do not adhere to the Old Testament covenant between Israel and Jehovah within which Jehovah-God's commands were issued?

I have received several explanations.

For some reason - ignorance mainly (and perhaps laziness, too), I think - non-Christians like to cherry-pick passages from the OT and impose them prescriptively upon NT believers as though there is no difference between the OT theocracy of Israel and the NT Christian Church. But there is a vast difference! And that difference makes all the difference when considering your line of questioning here.

Fair enough. But it's not that people like me cherry-pick. This is a concern. I can't just brush away things like this and move on. That's why I ask.

 

[Jenny Smith]

I ve been in the same situation when I was wondering streets at night and I couldnt even pary to God to protect me. I dont know how payer works some people say you got to wait to get answer from God.

 

[RDKirk]

And the contexts within which those commands were given? Do you know what they were? Do you know why New Testament Christians do not adhere to the Old Testament covenant between Israel and Jehovah within which Jehovah-God's commands were issued? For some reason - ignorance mainly (and perhaps laziness, too), I think - non-Christians like to cherry-pick passages from the OT and impose them prescriptively upon NT believers as though there is no difference between the OT theocracy of Israel and the NT Christian Church. But there is a vast difference! And that difference makes all the difference when considering your line of questioning here.

Selah.

Unfortunately, so do Christians...especially when rationalizing a non-Christian desire that someone be killed.

 

[JGG]

What would be God's hypothetical motive for lying or telling you to kill?

Why should we be concerned with God's motives? God moves in mysterious ways, right?

God is not going to do these things without also making you certain.

ISIS seems pretty certain.

And, if He wants me to go along with what He has told you to do, He would also have to make it certain to me.

Otherwise, I'm sticking with His previous command.

But then haven't you violated God's command?

 

[JGG]

Not without a newer Covenant.

Is there something in the new Covenant that we know God would not ask this of us?

 

[RDKirk]

But what if God lied with the intention of lying? Couldn't God also tell me I'm a frog while not actually turning me into a frog?



How would I make sure that it was really God? Why wouldn't I make sure that all of my commands came from God, why would I wait until I was asked to kill someone?

Suppose God didn't tell me, suppose God told my pastor to lead us in glorious warfare against the people at ComicCon? My pastor would certainly assure me that God has commanded us to annihilate the geeks. Do I go forth and do it?

As has already been stated, there is more to go on than your pastor's assertion.

 

[RDKirk]

Is there something in the new Covenant that we know God would not ask this of us?

Yes. Have you read it?

This isn't a difficult issue--there are millions of persons operating under this same basic philosophy every day...in the US military.

The basic military ethical philosophy is "obedience to command." However, that obedience is ultimately not to any individual, but to a concept--the Constitution itself. Thus, we are obligated to view all commands ultimately in terms of their Constitutionality, or the support of the defense of the Constitution, that is, their Constitutional legality.

In a daily practical sense, it's generally easy, but hypothetically difficult. An "unlawful order" is, basically, an order to do something unlawful. We generally rely on higher institutions with the proper Constitutional powers--not individuals--determine what is lawful and unlawful.

Thus: The President gives us an order. Is that order lawful or unlawful? Well, what do the institutions who have the Constitutional power to declare the President's orders as lawful or unlawful say about it? If they agree, then I'll rely on that. What if my immediate commander gives me an order--is that lawful or unlawful? What have the authorities who have the Constitutional power ruling over him said about it? If his order contravenes the orders or laws of those over him, then his order is unlawful.

But that's not all. There is always the question of whether I have clearly heard and understood the order in the first place. Someone tells me, "The commander has ordered...." But is that a reliable reporter? Is his interpretation reliable? I consider those things as well.

It's not different as a Christian. Like a soldier has the Constitution, a Christian has the New Testament.

 

[JGG]

As has already been stated, there is more to go on than your pastor's assertion.

Like what? How would I know my pastor was wrong?

 

[JGG]

Yes. Have you read it?

Yes. I don't remember anything that said God would not command us to kill each other.

 

[RDKirk]

Yes. I don't remember anything that said God would not command us to kill each other.

You must have missed this one: A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. John 13:34.

Maybe you also missed these:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.

And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5

Those are the last commands we Christians got--our current standing orders, our current "Constitution." If someone is proposing that God has said something different, he's going to have to provide a lot of evidence.

 

[Messy]

Yes. I don't remember anything that said God would not command us to kill each other.

I thought it was one of the 10 commandments, but there were other laws with war. Is it evil if they kill people to protect the innocent ones in a war like WWII?

 

[JGG]

You must have missed this one: A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. John 13:34.

Maybe you also missed these:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.

And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5

Those are the last commands we Christians got--our current standing orders, our current "Constitution." If someone is proposing that God has said something different, he's going to have to provide a lot of evidence.

Okay, but it doesn't offer the statement I asked for. What others have told me here is that God is free to violate His commandments, and if He asks me to, I am compelled to do so.

Is there some assurance that God would not ask me to do that here?