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If God commands me to kill someone...

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RDKirk

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Because I've been told not to kill anyone, and I haven't. If God asks me to do otherwise then that command is irrelevant, and none of us can condemn Roof, or ISIS.

Actually, neither Roof nor ISIS says that God told them to kill anyone. Both testify that they are morally correct in their decision to kill, but neither claims that God actually told them too.

OTOH, David Berkowitz did claim that his neighbor's dog told him to kill people. So do we give him a moral pass because he claimed he was obligated to obey his neighbor's dog?
 
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RDKirk

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Killing is not necessarily a sin.

Actually, it is. If you'll recall your OT, the killing of another human being--even at the command of God--rendered one unclean and unable to enter the presence of the Lord (or even his own tent) without a blood sacrifice for cleansing. The requirement for the blood sacrifice--the requirement of Jesus' blood sacrifice--indicates the basic sinful nature of any taking of human life.
 
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Soyeong

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Actually, it is. If you'll recall your OT, the killing of another human being--even at the command of God--rendered one unclean and unable to enter the presence of the Lord (or even his own tent) without a blood sacrifice for cleansing. The requirement for the blood sacrifice--the requirement of Jesus' blood sacrifice--indicates the basic sinful nature of any taking of human life.

Jews, including Jesus, went through regular cycles of being clean and unclean, but this was not considered a sin, especially because you could easily become unclean through no fault of your own. Jesus became unclean when he was touched by the woman with severe bleeding or when he healed people with leprosy. If someone was in a room with a group of other people and one of them has a heart attack a died, then they and everyone else in the room would become unclean. They could then go home and eat a kosher meal, which would then become unclean because they were touching it, but they wouldn't be sinning. However, if they were to enter the presence of the Lord or perform other Temple services while unclean, then they would be sinning. If you've ever gone to a funeral with an open casket or been touched by someone who has, then you are currently unclean.
 
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RDKirk

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Jews, including Jesus, went through regular cycles of being clean and unclean, but this was not considered a sin, especially because you could easily become unclean through no fault of your own. Jesus became unclean when he was touched by the woman with severe bleeding or when he healed people with leprosy. If someone was in a room with a group of other people and one of them has a heart attack a died, then they and everyone else in the room would become unclean. They could then go home and eat a kosher meal, which would then become unclean because they were touching it, but they wouldn't be sinning. However, if they were to enter the presence of the Lord or perform other Temple services while unclean, then they would be sinning. If you've ever gone to a funeral with an open casket or been touched by someone who has, then you are currently unclean.

But what happens to a person who never becomes clean? That person cannot approach atonement. Being ceremonially clean is not unnecessary.
 
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JGG

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This explains the what happened better than I can:

http://christianthinktank.com/qamorite.html

Fair enough, but there is far too much there for me to reply on. There is much that is objectionable.

It explicitly say, but considering the Egyptian attitudes towards Israelites, it is reasonable that he was getting beaten to death and Moses stepped in to prevent it. More reasonable than that in intervened with the intent to murder. And even if it was murder, it's not reasonable to assume that God thought it was fine.

When else is murder fine?

The issue is disagreement over the character of God. It is not within the character of the God of Christianity to kill because of those reasons.

But we've seen in the OT that it is in God's character to kill, and have others kill for Him.
 
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JGG

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God cannot tell me one thing, and then do another?

If God commands us to kill a group of men or even an entire country's population, then we are obligated to do so.



God cannot command someone to commit homicide.

These seem to contradict each other. Homicide is the act of causing the death of another person. God cannot command us to do that, but if we are commanded to slaughter all the geeks at ComicCon, we are obligated to do so?

How do we condemn ISIS?
 
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GracetotheHumble

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From this it would then follow that all of the Christians who are doctors, police officers, soldiers, etc. who have taken a life were committing a sin.

There are many Christians who have had to kill people for justifiable reasons. The doctor whose only choice is to either terminate the life of an unborn child to save the life of the mother or either see both of them die due to birth complications kills the child and is no less a follower of Christ for doing so.

The police officer who is a Christian who shoots and kills a madman who refuses to listen to the pleas of the negotiators for the life of the five year old girl he is holding at gunpoint is no less a follower of Christ for doing so.

This applies to the soldiers and any other Christian who finds themselves by the will of God, in a position where they must take a life.

Killing is not necessarily a sin.


I humbly disagree. I've never taken a life nor would I. As a Christian killing anyone for any reason is against my beliefs.
 
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JGG

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They were not killed because they were members of a specific ethnicity. They were killed because (among other evils) they were committing abominable evils like offering their babies to be burned as sacrifices to the gods they worshiped for example.

Genocide is merely the act of destroying a group of people, not necessarily based on ethnicity. That is what God commanded, isn't it? The reasons for it are irrelevant.

Against whose law? The Egyptian's law or God's?

Egyptian.

God commands in several instances that people should be killed if they did certain things.

God commanded never to murder. He never said never kill.

Killing someone may be justified. Murder by definition is never justified.

The commandment, thou shalt not kill is with regards to murdering someone.

Are we agreed then that since ISIS believes that God has commanded them to kill unbelievers and infidels, that they do not recognize it as murder? If we were in their place and believed that God commanded us to kill unbelievers and infidels we would be obligated to do it too?

God will never command you to commit murder so you do not have to trouble yourself about that. :)

But if I believe that God is telling me to kill an innocent person, I should do it?
 
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JGG

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You need to see a mental health counselor if you are homicidal. They traditionally place such people in institutions.

I'm not homicidal, don't worry. I just have to use myself as an example because I would like to think that people would pause before telling me I should go kill someone.

But as a thought exercise this causes me problems.

But if I believe that God is telling me to kill someone, I should see a mental health professional. Why do you believe that? What if I believe God is just talking to me in general, should I still go see a mental health professional?
 
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GracetotheHumble

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I
But if I believe that God is telling me to kill someone, I should see a mental health professional. Why do you believe that? What if I believe God is just talking to me in general, should I still go see a mental health professional?

Yes, if you think God is telling you to kill someone you should turn yourself in to mental health or the police.

1. God does not talk to us except through his word.

2. God does not tell us to kill others as he is a God of love.
 
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JGG

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I should add that I'm not trying to be a pain. I'm really trying to find some sort of faith, but with all of the questions that bounce around my head, I find no comfort in it. I worry that I never will. I'm not the kind of person who can turn their brain off to this sort of thing.

I should add that I would also rather not be discussing this on here, and I'm trying to find local pastors, ministers or priests to talk to about it in person, but I haven't had any bites yet.

So thanks for being patient.
 
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JGG

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Yes, if you think God is telling you to kill someone you should turn yourself in to mental health or the police.

1. God does not talk to us except through his word.

2. God does not tell us to kill others as he is a God of love.

So if I pray, I should not expect to hear back from God?
 
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GracetotheHumble

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I'm trying to find local pastors, ministers or priests to talk to about it in person, but I haven't had any bites yet.

May I recommend the LCMS. I spent 20 years investigating denominations and I consider it the best. I'm sure a Pastor in your area would be happy to meet with you. Here is their church locator if you'd like to see if they have a congregation in your area: http://locator.lcms.org/nchurches_frm/church.asp
 
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Soyeong

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Fair enough, but there is far too much there for me to reply on. There is much that is objectionable.

Faith enough, just know that there is a lot more to the background than the caricature God just telling the Israelites to kill of another people group for no good reason. The goal wasn't even to kill off a people group in the first place.

When else is murder fine?

Never.

But we've seen in the OT that it is in God's character to kill, and have others kill for Him.

The people that are being killed are being judged for their actions, so it is not that different from administering the death penalty. The reason why they are being killed is important.
 
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RDKirk

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I should add that I'm not trying to be a pain. I'm really trying to find some sort of faith, but with all of the questions that bounce around my head, I find no comfort in it. I worry that I never will. I'm not the kind of person who can turn their brain off to this sort of thing.

I should add that I would also rather not be discussing this on here, and I'm trying to find local pastors, ministers or priests to talk to about it in person, but I haven't had any bites yet.

So thanks for being patient.

Why do you think you need "some kind of faith?" What do you believe you're missing? What do you actually want?
 
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