FrenchyBearpaw
Take time for granite.
Meh, people who presume to know the mind of god are a penny a dozen. What makes you so special?
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Meh, people who presume to know the mind of god are a penny a dozen. What makes you so special?I can be insulting but I choose not to because I do represent the character of God Almighty. I don't have peace when I am insulting. I don't need nor want to insult. I just need to tell the sad truth about your situation. You on the other hand have no choice you must represent the character of your deity. And you do it well. he was a ---- and a murderer from the beginning. I suggest you move along and get as far from him as you can because he means you only harm. Nice talking with you, though. Try to keep your
1. No one ever claimed it was true because the people who came up with the data they were willing to die for it.
I edited and changed the wording before I even saw your post because I knew they didn't care enough about it to die for it. They only care about promoting their agenda which isn't theirs anyway it belongs to their god.
2. The data is readily available.
No it isn't. Only what they WROTE about is available.... with pictures.
3. Please don't say that you haven't seen the data. We have shown it to you time and time again and it's not hidden.
Nope you only have given us what people WROTE about.... with pictures.
If you and AV reject the data that's fine for you, but the majority of the educated world accepts it, unlike the "data" for creationism.
Education does not a wise person make. I see many unwise educated people all the time.
[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]?
I certainly don't curse you... you curse yourselves by your own words.
Edit: In the kindest and the most pleasant way possible, you are off your rocker. (This was cute.... I laughed not in mock.... you made a joke and I liked it.)
In the case of evolution, if you've seen the evidence and still don't believe it, you may very well be deluded.
Operative word "may". The answer is .... I'm not.
Edited to fix grammar among other things.
And I'm talking bout people dying for something they think isn't false.
Meh, people who presume to know the mind of god are a penny a dozen. What makes you so special?
I can be insulting but I choose not to because I do represent the character of God Almighty.
Exactly, it really is painfully simple - all the martyrdoms show is that the earliest Christians believed their faith was true, not that it was true.
I wonder if these True Christians (tm) today who think this is evidence for their faith would worship David Koresh, or Allah? I mean, if someone died for their belief in them, then that means it must be true...
Have I not already agreed with you that they thought what they were writing about was true?And I'm talking bout people dying for something they think isn't false.
No, true Christians would not worship David Koresh or Allah because they know they are wrong.
It's not just in the dying it's why they died. The true martyrs for Christ did not OPT to die like the suicide bombers of Allah and take their own lives... they were killed at the hands of their persecutors because they were Christians.
Nor were they (true Christians) forced to drink the cool-aid of the man they followed for years and murdered BY him.
No..., true Christians followed Jesus Christ AFTER He laid down HIS life for them and they were willing to die AT THE HANDS OF HATEFUL MURDERERS who hated them because they were followers of Christ, rather than deny Him. They did this not because they believed their faith was true but because they loved the Lord.
Thank you for your response.
You are naive if you believe that scientists use a different set of the laws of physics to engineer the hardware and networks that your computer uses to those used by astrophysicists to look billions of years into the past. Finding the petroleum for the plastics and the mining of the ore for the computer chips uses old earth geology methods. Has a bible provided any of that information? Never. The x-ray and MRI machines at the hospital use the same laws of physics, as does the GPS system that you may have in your cell phone. Do own or drive a car? You have already accepted all of those physical laws, and all of the related science.
Yet this is in contradiction to your earlier answer. If the only answers you receive are those that appear to come from within, then that is not much of a god. The human brain is an amazing thing, capable of creating its own illusions, such as the illusion of self, as detailed in my posting here.
Back in the 1600's they were working out the speed of light. The method could be conveyed to someone on the other side of the planet, where they could replicate the experiment for themselves. That is science.
You describe your god as a very big and important thing. Has it never occured to you that the fact that you cannot demonstrate this god to others like myself is that you may be wrong? Why is your god indistinguishable from nothing?
I am ignostic about gods. I do not mean this in a hurtful way, but your god appears to be no more than storybook character in a work of historical fiction.
You appear to be very religious.
So by this you mean you reject computers, automobiles, television, modern medicine?
They are just writings in a book.
This is circular logic, and is dismissed as such. I have to believe in order to believe?
Ridiculous. Again, this was written into the 'holy' texts, to stop the 'who's that behind the curtain' questions. Tempt the believers with heaven, threaten the doubters with hell. Your bible has been dismantled in ways never imagined by the writers. Had they any idea the internet was in the future? Apparently not, or I am sure they would have spent more time editing it for continuity. It is just a book.
Then you do not know atheism, and particularly ignostic atheism.
I am no more afraid to test God than I am of testing Darth Vader.
My wife of 20 years was raised Anglican, but only attends church with her parents a few times per year. We take communion (we pass on the wine for sanitary reasons). Interesting, but ultimately it is just an empty tradition to me.
Our kids are free of any theism, and I have talked at length with them on why people want to believe such things (including extraterrestrials, crop circles, perpetual motion machines).
I think it is time for my wife to stop believing. You are one of the first on this board to respond with something other than evasion or obfuscation, but you ended up just preaching. You have provided nothing to substantiate the existence of your god. I had hope for more from a forum such as this one.
To paraphrase from the NMS quote I posted earlier, all I see here are vast and intricate rationales on trying to justify why their particular interpretation of a certain version of a bible shows that it cannot be proven to be false. And nothing to show that they are more than historical fiction.
Let me jump right to my point. I dont believe there was a scientific method that discovered evolution. Darwin noticed the variation in the appearance of individual animals while studying wildlife. He assumed that this variation, given enough time, would allow those animals to change to the point that they looked different. The theory of evolution then developed through people writing books that typically contain two things (i) artists drawings that show the ages and names of the layers of the earth and (ii) artists drawings showing plants and animals arranged in a family tree. The continuous printing of them for more than a hundred years does not prove the theory.
What Darwin assumed was not really surprising. This process of changing an organisms appearance through a series of small changes is correctly called microevolution. But lets be real that is not what we are referring to when we use the term the theory of evolution.
Whenever I find myself in a discussion regarding whether the Bibles creation account or the theory of evolution is correct, I find that we are really discussing where did life come from? and did we descend from apelike ancestors?
I will go out on a limb here by saying nothing has been dug out of the ground (or discovered anywhere else) that has proven the theory of evolution, which I maintain is a really a discussion of abiogenesis and macroevolution combined.
I agree that these things have been discussed alot. Having said that, I am not sure science and the bible disagree. You have to keep in mind some things can be taken literally, for example "The Flood", "Adam and Eve" and others "talking animals" may be more allegorical in nature.
With regard to "spiritual health", I am not sure what your point is. I don't like to avoid discussion, but I really am missing your point on "spiritual health".
Of course they wouldn't worship them - I was overoptimistically expecting that those who exalt themselves as True Christians (tm) be consistent....
David Koresh and those who followed him would say exactly the same thing.
You're thinking of Jim Jones.
This is circular logic. The argument put forward is that Christianity must be true else why die for it - here you're saying that they died for it because Christianity is true.
Below is the reason for persecution and martyrdom.
Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Joh 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
Joh 15:21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
Joh 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
Joh 15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
Joh 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
Joh 15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me WITHOUT A CAUSE.
My capitalization and embolden.
I agree that these things have been discussed alot. Having said that, I am not sure science and the bible disagree. You have to keep in mind some things can be taken literally, for example "The Flood", "Adam and Eve" and others "talking animals" may be more allegorical in nature.
With regard to "spiritual health", I am not sure what your point is. I don't like to avoid discussion, but I really am missing your point on "spiritual health".
Keep in mind Deaver that Jesus believed Adam and Eve were literal.
And it never once occurred to you that some folks are just insufferably obnoxious, and that's why they get "persecuted"?
Is that really the best you've got? Third/fourth hand accounts of Jesus say one thing, and you'll use that to believe what you wish?
I agree with that. Let me also add, we all have the same facts, where the major difference is the interpretaion. That interpretation is complicated by what we want to believe, on both sides of any issue.
For what purpose? so the author could die a martyr?
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