Thank you for your response.
You will note I said science that is contrary to God's Word. I did not say all science.
You are naive if you believe that scientists use a different set of the laws of physics to engineer the hardware and networks that your computer uses to those used by astrophysicists to look billions of years into the past. Finding the petroleum for the plastics and the mining of the ore for the computer chips uses old earth geology methods. Has a bible provided any of that information? Never. The x-ray and MRI machines at the hospital use the same laws of physics, as does the GPS system that you may have in your cell phone. Do own or drive a car?
You have already accepted all of those physical laws, and all of the related science.
Davian, Forty years... that's forty years. I've been young and now I'm not so young (in age that is) I've seen lots and lots in my life and been through lots and lots. I am a very open and honest person. I'm that way with God also. I say this because there is no way that I have not already tested God. He allows this because He would know I wasn't being honest if I didn't. Life brings us many things and questions along the way. That's one of the things my Father does. He answers my questions. I have never had a test or a question that I have not gone away from it believing MORE in God than I did before. I'm not afraid of God in ANY way. I LOVE God.
Yet this is in contradiction to your earlier answer. If the only answers you receive are those that appear to come from within,
then that is not much of a god. The human brain is an amazing thing, capable of creating its own illusions, such as the illusion of self, as detailed in my posting
here.
I don't know how to make you see or understand that over the internet.
Back in the 1600's they were working out the speed of light. The method could be conveyed to someone on the other side of the planet, where they could replicate the experiment for themselves. That is science.
You describe your god as a very big and important thing. Has it never occured to you that the fact that you cannot demonstrate this god to others like myself is that you may be
wrong? Why is your god indistinguishable from nothing?
I am ignostic about gods. I do not mean this in a hurtful way, but your god appears to be no more than storybook character in a work of historical fiction.
You appear to be very religious.
I'm not just a mamby pamby Christian. I question everything and everyone, including myself, and if it doesn't line up with the scriptures I don't accept it.
So by this you mean you reject computers, automobiles, television, modern medicine?
I don't SEE the Word of God as you do. I don't believe men COULD have written what has been written in the Bible WITHOUT the influence of the Holy Spirit. All these writings were by individuals who lived hundreds and thousands of years apart and they did not conspire with each other to form a doctrine to bring all us Christians under their control.
They are just writings in a book.
God does not work solely under some church building. He works in our individual lives. Yes, there may be some who fit your description but most true or mature Christians do not. When you are a true Christian you do not have to even know the person to know if they are a true Christian. I don't know AV or any of the other Christians here personally. I don't even know what their real names are or where they are from but I am one with them. I know exactly what they mean when they talk about the Bible and Christ. How can that be? I don't know them from Adam and yet, I know them. It's because we are one in the Spirit.... one in the family of God.... onne in Christ.
As to God's presence being measured or detected in some way there is a way but you must be born of the Spirit to experience it. God is a Spirit and to know Him you, too, must be alive in the spirit. You must be alive unto God. When we are born into this world in the physical/natural we are not alive unto God. We have to receive Jesus His Son to become sons and daughters ourselves.... THEN you can know God and His presence. You won't see Him yet, but you can know Him.
This is circular logic, and is dismissed as such.
I have to believe in order to believe? Ridiculous. Again, this was written into the 'holy' texts, to stop the 'who's that behind the curtain' questions. Tempt the believers with heaven, threaten the doubters with hell. Your bible has been dismantled in ways never imagined by the writers. Had they any idea the internet was in the future? Apparently not, or I am sure they would have spent more time editing it for continuity. It is just a book.
You told me what you think I believe. Now, let me tell you what I believe. I believe you are afraid to test God. I believe you can't move into the realm of the unseen because YOU are afraid that what you have been taught your whole life or what you have built your beliefs on will be shown to be false. Some of it IS false. You are afraid you will be mocked and ridiculed by possibly your family or friends ... and you just might be... but it's worth it to know the Lord. I think most atheists WANT us to PROVE God and SHOW us God and I wish I could but that is not how it works. YOU have to believe God is real or at least seek Him to find out for yourself. God wants you to KNOW Him. Other Christians are here to help and support you but if ones faith was all based on other Christians.... well, you know how that would go. Christians are not perfect just new creatures growing all the time. If we did not have GOD Christianity really wouldn't be much at all. God is the focus of it all. God is the reality of it all. God is the Life and Spirit of it all.
Then you do not know atheism, and particularly ignostic atheism.
I am no more afraid to test God than I am of testing Darth Vader.
My wife of 20 years was raised Anglican, but only attends church with her parents a few times per year. We take communion (we pass on the wine for sanitary reasons). Interesting, but ultimately it is just an empty tradition to me.
Our kids are free of any theism, and I have talked at length with them on why people want to believe such things (including extraterrestrials, crop circles, perpetual motion machines).
I hope this is the post you were asking me to answer. If not please let me know.
I think it is time for my wife to stop believing. You are one of the first on this board to respond with something other than evasion or obfuscation, but you ended up just preaching. You have provided nothing to substantiate the existence of your god. I had hope for more from a forum such as this one.
To paraphrase from the NMS quote I posted earlier, all I see here are vast and intricate rationales on trying to justify why their
particular interpretation of a
certain version of a bible shows that it cannot be proven to be false. And nothing to show that they are more than historical fiction.
If the evidence for the age of the earth was based on the conclusion that the earth was millions of years old you might have a point.
