If Christianity the true religion, how is it observably different from other, false, religions

[Maria Billingsley]

Hallucination. Next?

Next? Going through the list of typical counter theories is unproductive. Now its your turn to prove it was a hallucination.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hallucination. Next?

....but to bolster this argument against hallucination- the men who were with him heard.
"And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man"

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Next? Going through the list of typical counter theories is unproductive. Now its your turn to prove it was a hallucination.

Of course it isn't. The burden of proof is on you. After Jesus' death, Paul claimed he saw a vision and heard Jesus speak to him. The simplest explanation: he imagined it.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

....but to bolster this argument against hallucination- the men who were with him heard.
"And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man"

Uh-huh. Where did you read that?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Uh-huh. Where did you read that?

Historical ancient manuscripts. which contains a letter by Saul of Tarsus.

 

[A_Thinker]

Historical ancient manuscripts. which contains a letter by Saul of Tarsus.

Acts 9

3 As Saul drew near to Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?” 5 “Who are You, Lord?” Saul asked.

“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting, ” He replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.” 7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless. They heard the voice but did not see anyone.

 

[Tinker Grey]

And who were these men?

 

[LoG]

Something that an objective person could verify for themselves, without having to take something told to them by others or through scripture on faith.

If there was a religion with a holy book that made many specfic revelations that could be confirmed as true without excessive interpretation, then that is somethiing I could verify. E.g. a holy book that revealed the germ theory of disease in good detaiil.

In direct response to the bolded part I'll point out that 3500+ years ago the Pentateuch gave the Israelites (and Christians by extension), the practical applications of both germ and dietary theories for the express purpose of:

Exodus 15:26 He said, “If you listen carefully to the Lord your God and do what is right in his eyes, if you pay attention to his commands and keep all his decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians, for I am the Lord, who heals you.”

There are decrees for wound, skin and discharge precautions, waste disposal, quarantine, handling dead bodies, safe and unsafe meats, cooking procedures, washing clothes and body, etc. This of course in addition to the moral laws which by their very nature prevent the spread of certain diseases we see in the 20th century. It has taken science 3500 years to come to some understanding of the soundness and legitimacy of many. Some they are still in the dark about.
Bible Health Laws

Although religious affiliation in general enhances one's life expectancy by 3 or 4 years, studies of both Jews and 7th Day Adventists, who both follow the Old testament health commandments, show an additional up to 10 year extended life expectancy.

This certainly qualifies as revelations in a holy book that have observable and demonstrable benefits that are already proven statistically for those who follow them.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

And who were these men?

Sanhedrin soldiers. The command was given by the Sanhedrin Court, the ancient Jewish court system, to Saul of Tarsus, to gather the Jews who defected to Christianity. The Great Sanhedrin was the supreme religious body in the Land of Israel during the time of the Holy Temple.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Sanhedrin soldiers. The command was given by the Sanhedrin Court, the ancient Jewish court system, to Saul of Tarsus, to gather the Jews who defected to Christianity. The Great Sanhedrin was the supreme religious body in the Land of Israel during the time of the Holy Temple.

No names, no writings left behind?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

No names, no writings left behind?

Literacy was not common among ancient people. Those who had some knowledge were typically students like Saul who was instructed by the Rabbi's.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Literacy was not common among ancient people. Those who had some knowledge were typically students like Saul who was instructed by the Rabbi's.

Ergo, no evidence ... just a claim of evidence.

"I lifted one thousand pounds with one hand. 50 people saw me do it. No I don't have their names. Just have faith."

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Ergo, no evidence ... just a claim of evidence.

"I lifted one thousand pounds with one hand. 50 people saw me do it. No I don't have their names. Just have faith."

So Saul made up the whole story? What would be his motivation to do so?

 

[Tinker Grey]

So Saul made up the whole story? What would be his motivation to do so?

Or the author of Acts made it up. Or Saul did. Or someone miss-remembered. Or maybe, he was a charlatan taking advantage of illiterate rubes.

Joseph Smith had witnesses that swore to the accuracy of his story.

Do you believe there were golden plates?

ETA: It doesn't matter the motivations. What you have is a claim not evidence. Lacking the imagination as to why someone wrote a story also isn't evidence.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Historical ancient manuscripts. which contains a letter by Saul of Tarsus.

That sounds impressive. Are we talking about the gospel of Luke, by any chance? A single source written by a Christian? In other words, you read it in the Bible?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Or the author of Acts made it up. Or Saul did. Or someone miss-remembered. Or maybe, he was a charlatan taking advantage of illiterate rubes.

Joseph Smith had witnesses that swore to the accuracy of his story.

Do you believe there were golden plates?

ETA: It doesn't matter the motivations. What you have is a claim not evidence. Lacking the imagination as to why someone wrote a story also isn't evidence.

Acts is an overview, Saul wrote letters. These letters are considered historical accounts and part of ancient manuscripts. He repeats this story in his letters to the Corinthians and Galatians. The only argument you have is that he lied and there is absolutely no reason for him to do that since he was a persecutor of Christians at the time.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

That sounds impressive. Are we talking about the gospel of Luke, by any chance? A single source written by a Christian? In other words, you read it in the Bible?

Letters from Saul where he talks about his conversion, Corinthians and Galatians.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Acts is an overview, Saul wrote letters. These letters are considered historical accounts and part of ancient manuscripts. He repeats this story in his letters to the Corinthians and Galatians. The only argument you have is that he lied and there is absolutely no reason for him to do that since he was a persecutor of Christians at the time.

He wasn't a persecutor of Christians when he wrote that this happened. He was a guy starting a religion ... not unlike Joseph Smith.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Acts is an overview, Saul wrote letters. These letters are considered historical accounts and part of ancient manuscripts. He repeats this story in his letters to the Corinthians and Galatians. The only argument you have is that he lied and there is absolutely no reason for him to do that since he was a persecutor of Christians at the time.

Paul either simply made it up, or he genuinely hallucinated that Jesus spoke to him.
As to "witnesses" to the experience, Paul and/or Luke simply made it up to make the story sound better.

Sorry, but if you think quoting a miracle story from the Bible is "historical proof" that God exists, you're quite mistaken.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

He wasn't a persecutor of Christians when he wrote that this happened. He was a guy starting a religion ... not unlike Joseph Smith.

Haaa! I did chuckle, no offence, but you are starting to split hairs on this. I am sure you know someone who wrote down a story as an adult about their boyhood experience? Hint..hint.