If Cessationism is not true then-

friend of

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So did Smith Wigglesworth - to such an extent that he was called
Smith Wigglesworth an apostle of God.

Yahweh has a sense of humor, Waggles!

Yes this still happens, just like in the book of Acts.

Then why are these holy healers, appointed by the Lord, not putting medical doctors out of work?
 
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Waggles

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Then why are these holy healers, appointed by the Lord, not putting medical doctors out of work?
Because not everybody wants to be healed.
not everyone wants salvation.
Not everybody believes.

My own sister trusted in her self-righteousness. she refused to accept my prayers
and refused to allow me to lay hands on her.
She refused to get water baptized by full immersion.
Even though she was dying from advanced cancer she didn't want to come to a
Pentecostal church meeting and repent.
She knew of my testimonies to the miraculous and to healings, but she did not
want to submit to the word and do things God's way.

She assumed her salvation because she was such a nice person and a real good-goody.
How could God find fault with her?
 
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Waggles

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@friend of
What if ...
at our Sunday meetings when we have our prayer line; what if we had 100% healing
rate? Every single person who needed a healing were instantly healed on the spot.
What would this mean for faith? For making a commitment to be a true-blue Christian?
What would this mean for patience? Faithfulness? Soldiering on?
Overcoming trials and tribulations?

Jesus Heals the Sick in Gennesaret
53 And when they had passed over, they came into the land of Gennesaret, and drew to the shore.
54 And when they were come out of the ship, straightway they knew him,
55 And ran through that whole region round about, and began to carry about in beds those that were sick, where they heard he was.
56 And whithersoever he entered, into villages, or cities, or country, they laid the sick in the streets, and besought him that they might touch if it were but the border of his garment: and as many as touched him were made whole.
Mark 6:
Wanting something for free hasn't passed away. But do all become faithful disciples?
 
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Yahweh has a sense of humor, Waggles!



Then why are these holy healers, appointed by the Lord, not putting medical doctors out of work?
Does the Bible teach that people with the gift of healing would be putting physicians out of work?
 
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simonbrooks

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The gift of healing absolutely continues today.

I think the problem lies more with the members of the body of Christ. Those who decry every miracle as fake, who claim that a "revival" is not from God because they don't agree with the preacher or the preacher is falible. (Yes Mr Bently i'm looking at you!). The revival in Lakeland was amazing with hundreds of DOCUMENTED healings, however, because of who God chose to use in it, many, even on this board, decried it as of the devil. Because it didn't fit in with the nice safe usual Christianity they knew, it must be wrong. Any healings were either fake or not proven sufficiently.

I can testify the God does heal. The gift of Healing is real and alive today. The reason we don't see more of it is purely a lack of faith on the part of the church body. We have become slovenly. We don't want to see this kind of thing because it makes us uncomfortable. We don't allow it because, heaven forbid, it means we may have to get off our backsides, onto our knees, repent and go and do likewise.

Healings happen every day in the church. The gifts of the Spirit most certainly have NOT ceased, no matter the semantics used. They are very much alive today, including tongues, prophecy and all the others.

God bless
 
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ToBeLoved

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The gift of healing absolutely continues today.

I think the problem lies more with the members of the body of Christ. Those who decry every miracle as fake, who claim that a "revival" is not from God because they don't agree with the preacher or the preacher is falible. (Yes Mr Bently i'm looking at you!). The revival in Lakeland was amazing with hundreds of DOCUMENTED healings, however, because of who God chose to use in it, many, even on this board, decried it as of the devil. Because it didn't fit in with the nice safe usual Christianity they knew, it must be wrong. Any healings were either fake or not proven sufficiently.

I can testify the God does heal. The gift of Healing is real and alive today. The reason we don't see more of it is purely a lack of faith on the part of the church body. We have become slovenly. We don't want to see this kind of thing because it makes us uncomfortable. We don't allow it because, heaven forbid, it means we may have to get off our backsides, onto our knees, repent and go and do likewise.

Healings happen every day in the church. The gifts of the Spirit most certainly have NOT ceased, no matter the semantics used. They are very much alive today, including tongues, prophecy and all the others.

God bless
Maybe you should be taking pot shots at the fake healers or the ones who ask for money for God's special favors instead of saying that people don't want to be healed.

That sounds a little odd, people want to have health or physical issues.
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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You mistake my intent. I am not judging individual faith. I am just wondering if years of easy believism and drive by evangelism and worldly compromise have created a church in which there are few truly saved people to begin with. And even less disciples.
Luke 18:7-9
7Will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry out to Him day and night? Will He continue to defer their help? 8I tell you, He will promptly carry out justice on their behalf. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on earth?” 9To some who trusted in their own righteousness and viewed others with contempt, He also told this parable:…

God Bless
Jax
I certainly agree with the decline of Christianity as predicted. I just don't agree with the lack of visibility of healing miracles as indicative of it. Yes, if there is no faith in a godless region, there will be no miracles, but I would never say there are no Christians left anywhere they used to be.
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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Scripture? Okay then, AnticipateHisComing:

Mark 16:17-18
If you would have only read two more verses of scripture you would see the text you think on your side only confirms what I wrote. That would be that miracles testify to truth and authority of the one performing them. Their calling is not to testify that the recipients of miracles have "True Faith" as you say.

Mark 16:6 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”​

19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.​

Further observe who Jesus was talking to his disciples. While the great commission is given to all, the authority to sit on thrones was given to twelve.
Fewer of these whom the Lord speaks of, means fewer are those of True Belief. We have Scripture and the Apostolic Tradition from within which our Scriptures are produced. I was drawing upon the knowledge that the Church inherits from these Holy sources. Thus, its not accurate to suggest that those opinions I've expressed here are my own when they are in fact what is taught in both Scripture and Tradition.
I never suggested your post was an opinion of yours alone. I did suggest it was "baloney" and "Ignorant suggestion", compliments of OrthodoxyUSA. If a fellow EO thinks it acceptable to make such statements then I shall return the favor.

My post did more than opine though, it provided an explanation from scripture to the purpose of miracles: to increase faith and to testify to true godly authority. You have not refuted these statements. From this I argue that an explosive expansion of faith is no longer needed today, the church is quite mature now. Also, the truth of God's word is firmly established.

Your opinion that the reason for a lack of healing miracles is because of a lack of faith is a most ignorant and judgmental assertion. You condemn the bulk of other churches.

What you don't acknowledge is that healing is just one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and only one of the signs of truth. Does your church speak in tongues? Do they pick up snakes or drink poison? In your argument you judge people to not be of "True Faith" because they don't do one of the signs, healing. I could just as well judge you for not picking up snakes or drinking poison.

Likewise, understand that another gift of the Holy Spirit is knowledge and knowledge of God's word is much more attainable today with everyone being able to get a copy of God's word. So recognize that the way that God uses the Holy Spirit in his Church may change throughout time. At one time it was reliant on prophets and their signs. Today we have the time when God's Spirit is poured out on all and all can prophesy. We don't need miracles by a few chosen prophets to recognize and increase in truth.
And just for your information, we are still beholding miracles. I'm going, God willing, to behold at least another one before the sun sets tomorrow.
Every day the sun rises is a miracle. If the miracle you are set to see was as dramatic as the ones Jesus and the Apostles did, that would be significant and would certainly testify that the one who performed such had great authority from God. If the miracle you plan on seeing is a common everyday miracle, then that is not what this thread is arguing about.
 
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If you would have only read two more verses of scripture you would see the text you think on your side only confirms what I wrote. That would be that miracles testify to truth and authority of the one performing them. Their calling is not to testify that the recipients of miracles have "True Faith" as you say.

Mark 16:6 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”​

19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.​

Further observe who Jesus was talking to his disciples. While the great commission is given to all, the authority to sit on thrones was given to twelve.

I never suggested your post was an opinion of yours alone. I did suggest it was "baloney" and "Ignorant suggestion", compliments of OrthodoxyUSA. If a fellow EO thinks it acceptable to make such statements then I shall return the favor.

My post did more than opine though, it provided an explanation from scripture to the purpose of miracles: to increase faith and to testify to true godly authority. You have not refuted these statements. From this I argue that an explosive expansion of faith is no longer needed today, the church is quite mature now. Also, the truth of God's word is firmly established.

Your opinion that the reason for a lack of healing miracles is because of a lack of faith is a most ignorant and judgmental assertion. You condemn the bulk of other churches.

What you don't acknowledge is that healing is just one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and only one of the signs of truth. Does your church speak in tongues? Do they pick up snakes or drink poison? In your argument you judge people to not be of "True Faith" because they don't do one of the signs, healing. I could just as well judge you for not picking up snakes or drinking poison.

Likewise, understand that another gift of the Holy Spirit is knowledge and knowledge of God's word is much more attainable today with everyone being able to get a copy of God's word. So recognize that the way that God uses the Holy Spirit in his Church may change throughout time. At one time it was reliant on prophets and their signs. Today we have the time when God's Spirit is poured out on all and all can prophesy. We don't need miracles by a few chosen prophets to recognize and increase in truth.

Every day the sun rises is a miracle. If the miracle you are set to see was as dramatic as the ones Jesus and the Apostles did, that would be significant and would certainly testify that the one who performed such had great authority from God. If the miracle you plan on seeing is a common everyday miracle, then that is not what this thread is arguing about.
Not a common, everyday miracle at all, AHC, and the statements I've made, which you have failed to really refute, still stand, and are attested to by Scripture and the Apostolic Tradition, and now also, by signs and wonders.
 
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Dawnhammer

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We felt the Holy Spirit. The missionary looked at me, and we went to the boy. The villagers consented. The village shaman, who we instantly knew to be demon possessed felt the Spirit and fled. We put our hands on his foot and prayed. It grew back. We saw it.

The entire village confessed and converted.

Right, before this episode happened was there maybe some patch of unidentified mushrooms around ?
 
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simonbrooks

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Maybe you should be taking pot shots at the fake healers or the ones who ask for money for God's special favors instead of saying that people don't want to be healed.

I'm not taking pot shots at anyone. I'm simply stating how I see it. Too many Christians seem to want to pull apart other ministries for what they perceive as "heresy" which are actually minor doctrinal differences. Take for example the Bently furore. Yes, the guy was a prat. He allowed Satan to steer him away from something awesome that God was doing into total and utter sin. (Adultery for a start). However, we had so many so called "Watchmen" that did nothing but decry everything as from satan. There were, according to them, no genuine healings, the only people that went were those who were worshiping "at the atlar of Bentley" rather than worshiping God. They pulled appart the worship, they insulted the people taking part, they belittled what God was really doing. They missed completely that people were being saved, routed into local churches, and people were genuinely healed.

Sadly, most of these so called watchmen were not affiliated with any denomination or church. They were self appointed, self righteous know it alls whos only purpose was to pull apart Gods work. Personally I would say they were more sons of Satan than Sons of God.

Any time a "revival" or movement of God appears, here come the watchmen to explain that it isn't really God, he doesn't do that anymore. He couldn't possibly use someone who was so flawed and besides, he has tattoos!!!!!! It really gets rediculous.

Absolutely we should be on the watch for false teachers, those who say I can only pray for you if you give me money should be ashamed of themselves. I'm not a big fan of the american style of televangelism, but there are some who are absolutely spot on (TD Jakes, Joyce Mayer etc). (In my opinion).

Once the church turns on itself there is no hope for us. We serve the same God. Minor doctrinal issues do not mean we should go to war with each other. Where people are actually going against scripture then they should be LOVINGLY corrected. What i see from some sections of the church certainly isn't loving.

That sounds a little odd, people want to have health or physical issues.

Now that, I never said. I said that the church doesn't want to see this as it makes them uncomfortable and puts expectations onto them that they don't like. Having said that, sometimes people have become accoustomed to their illness (or whatever) and really don't want to be healed as again they are scared of the unknown or they will lose out in either sympathy or financially. Sometimes it is easier to deal with what you know than to face the unknown.

God bless.
 
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simonbrooks

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Right, before this episode happened was there maybe some patch of unidentified mushrooms around ?
Here is a prime example of what I talked about. Someone posts an amazing testamony and what do we see? Hmm... (Hopefully this was a joke but I'm never certain!)

God bless
 
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ToBeLoved

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I'm not taking pot shots at anyone. I'm simply stating how I see it. Too many Christians seem to want to pull apart other ministries for what they perceive as "heresy" which are actually minor doctrinal differences. Take for example the Bently furore. Yes, the guy was a prat. He allowed Satan to steer him away from something awesome that God was doing into total and utter sin. (Adultery for a start). However, we had so many so called "Watchmen" that did nothing but decry everything as from satan. There were, according to them, no genuine healings, the only people that went were those who were worshiping "at the atlar of Bentley" rather than worshiping God. They pulled appart the worship, they insulted the people taking part, they belittled what God was really doing. They missed completely that people were being saved, routed into local churches, and people were genuinely healed.

Sadly, most of these so called watchmen were not affiliated with any denomination or church. They were self appointed, self righteous know it alls whos only purpose was to pull apart Gods work. Personally I would say they were more sons of Satan than Sons of God.

Any time a "revival" or movement of God appears, here come the watchmen to explain that it isn't really God, he doesn't do that anymore. He couldn't possibly use someone who was so flawed and besides, he has tattoos!!!!!! It really gets rediculous.

Absolutely we should be on the watch for false teachers, those who say I can only pray for you if you give me money should be ashamed of themselves. I'm not a big fan of the american style of televangelism, but there are some who are absolutely spot on (TD Jakes, Joyce Mayer etc). (In my opinion).

Once the church turns on itself there is no hope for us. We serve the same God. Minor doctrinal issues do not mean we should go to war with each other. Where people are actually going against scripture then they should be LOVINGLY corrected. What i see from some sections of the church certainly isn't loving.



Now that, I never said. I said that the church doesn't want to see this as it makes them uncomfortable and puts expectations onto them that they don't like. Having said that, sometimes people have become accoustomed to their illness (or whatever) and really don't want to be healed as again they are scared of the unknown or they will lose out in either sympathy or financially. Sometimes it is easier to deal with what you know than to face the unknown.

God bless.
All I can say is that people have a right to their opinions and that most people do little research. Not you specifically but in general.

The names you mentioned I don’t believe have done healings.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Here is a prime example of what I talked about. Someone posts an amazing testamony and what do we see? Hmm... (Hopefully this was a joke but I'm never certain!)

God bless
So you think all 50 people that may be reading this thread should agree with you? And the one that doesn’t represents Christianity in general.

It’s not like Jesus Himself did not warn us of false miracles in the last days. So should we believe every internet testimony as true? When we have no idea who it was written by?
 
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Waggles

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Yes , it was truly amazing testimony. Even more amazing is the fact some people would consider it true.
Such unbelief. Such mocking of God's power in the faith of a believer.

And yet in my church a Spirit-filled young man newly born again fell over a
five strand wire fence in a national park and broke his leg.
He was alone and far distant from any help and no mobile phone with him.
He called out on the Lord and prayed in tongues.
God not only healed and repaired his broken leg bones [the tibia and the fibula] and also
healed the skin wound and the swelling.

Faith in the truth of God is a wonderful blessing.
Unbelief has no rewards.

And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Matthew 13:58
5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk,
and healed them.
6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages,
teaching.
Mark 6:
 
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Dawnhammer

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Such unbelief. Such mocking of God's power in the faith of a believer.

So a random guy at internet says he and his buddy are believers, went to somewhere in Brazil, found a lost tribe with a man who had lost his leg and their prayers not only regrow the leg but banished evil demon filled shaman and the whole tribe converted without giving any details at all while making it sound they did it in afternoon and went to have a jolly good cup of tea after before leaving the expagans and hiking it back to civilization.

Also your own recollection of a guy doing miracles and receiving healing that removed all evidence when alone in the National park doesn’t sound much more plausible either.

Don’t you think there is bit of theme here that none of these miracles happen anywhere where they make headlines?

If a preacher could grow back legs or arms by praying why wouldn’t he use that and spread the word of God in public with medical practitioners confirming these miracles.

Millions of uncertain souls would flock to an evidence of healing like that.

But never, it always happens with lost tribe in Brazil or something similiar.
 
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Waggles

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Don’t you think there is bit of theme here that none of these miracles happen anywhere where they make headlines?
Lots of miracles happen right here in Australia, many under the very noses of doctors
and specialists.
Many a saint has been healed miraculously of their terminal disease - such as
Bronchiolitis obliterans (Paddy only had three months to live but that was 15 years ago),
cancers and heart conditions ... saints having their necessary hospital operations cancelled
due to their healings.

But unbelief is unbelief. And doctors and specialists having seen the miraculous before
their very eyes still grasp for "scientific" medical answers like: you just got better, but
we don't know why, never happened before, but .... come back in a year and let's see
how your doing.

Unbelief blinds a person to the truth of what is possible by the power of God through
his Holy Spirit. But I think you are familiar with this attitude.
 
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Dawnhammer

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Unbelief blinds a person to the truth of what is possible by the power of God through
his Holy Spirit.

Blind faith might also be problem for some. Or their kids.

Letting them die: parents refuse medical help for children in the name of Christ

TLDR

“large number of children have died in southern Idaho, near Boise, in families belonging to a reclusive, Pentecostal faith-healing sect called the Followers of Christ.”

Where was the God for those children ? Or were their parents just lacking in faith as well as reason ?

Why do we hear these news all the time but never have that headline of faith healer growing back the legs of US marine that stepped on mine? Or faith healer separates Siamese twins?
 
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Waggles

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Christians with faith are not faith healers.

God disperses gifts through the Holy Spirit within a Spirit-filled church.
There are nine of them; which include
faith, healing, working of miracles, discerning of spirits ...

There is a correct way of faith, doctrine and worship that is approved by God and
delivers "results" in line with the scriptures.
And then there are sects and cults very much out of order and I am sad to say just
plain weird and whacko. This seems to be a peculiar American phenomenon.

Where was the God for those children ?
God was displaying his disapproval for the parents of those children and showing that he
would not reward such nonsense.
As for all children and indeed the millions who die as victims of the folly of other people
their souls are at rest and sleep until the second resurrection.

My Pentecostal Fellowship is not a sect or a cult but an 'open' church welcoming new people
in and simply preaching straight out of the Word with wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

We have a young man in a wheelchair, Nick, who is the victim of a motorcycle crash.
Broke his neck and snapped a couple of vertebrae > result quadriplegic.
He met our pastor through one of his carers, and eventually got baptized in water and
in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
By medical standards his healing and recovery is miraculous and now he can moved his head and shoulders. He has a joy rather than the depression that other quadriplegics often suffer.
Best of all: his mother and sister and several other carers have all come to the Lord and
embraced the gospel of Acts 2:38

In third world countries were people have no access to medical and post trauma support
services whatsoever then here the very poor enjoy spectacular miracles in response to
their needs.

http://miracles.areonthe.net/TESTIM... surgical removal - Matilda - Vanimo, PNG.pdf
 
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