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OkieAllDay

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If baptism saves then why is there so much of an emphasis on faith for salvation throughout the Bible? What I mean by that is if salvation saves (which is usually administered upon infants) why does the Bible seem to suggest that the initial act of salvation begins when a person puts their faith in Jesus Christ?
 

HTacianas

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If baptism saves then why is there so much of an emphasis on faith for salvation throughout the Bible? What I mean by that is if salvation saves (which is usually administered upon infants) why does the Bible seem to suggest that the initial act of salvation begins when a person puts their faith in Jesus Christ?
You can't have on without the other. Entering into salvation is a process. The writer to the Hebrews lists "elementary principles" of salvation:

Heb 6:1 ...the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

We see that the process is repentance, faith, baptism, chrismation, and the doctrine of resurrection and judgement. It is through baptism that we receive forgiveness of previous sins, see Acts 2:38. Jesus commanded his apostles to "go forth" and baptize, see Matthew 28:19. See also the account of Apollos of Alexandria at Acts 18:24. He already had faith, but needed to be pulled aside and corrected then baptized. Even Paul, after his encounter with Jesus, was baptized by Ananias in Damascus.
 
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Soyeong

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If baptism saves then why is there so much of an emphasis on faith for salvation throughout the Bible? What I mean by that is if salvation saves (which is usually administered upon infants) why does the Bible seem to suggest that the initial act of salvation begins when a person puts their faith in Jesus Christ?
Obedience to any set of instructions is about putting our faith in the one who gave them to rightly guide us, which is why there are many verses that connect our faith in God with our obedience to Him. For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, in James 2:18, he would show his faith by his works, and in Revelation 14:12, this who kept faith in Jesus are the same as this who kept God’s commandments. So it is not that we earn our salvation as the result of our baptism, but that baptism is part of the way to have faith in God, and it is by that faith that we are being saved.
 
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Strong in Him

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If baptism saves then why is there so much of an emphasis on faith for salvation throughout the Bible? What I mean by that is if salvation saves (which is usually administered upon infants) why does the Bible seem to suggest that the initial act of salvation begins when a person puts their faith in Jesus Christ?
Baptism doesn't save; Jesus saves.

In the NT, baptism was a sign of new life, and a picture of what had happened to the believer. They went down into the pool (dying to sin) and were raised again to new life, Romans 6:2-4. When John came he baptised people for the forgiveness of their sins. That was not usual for them. The Jews had the sacrificial system for guilt and sin; baptism was only for Gentiles who converted to the Jewish faith.
Before the person's baptism there probably would have been confession and/or a declaration of faith.

But we are also told that whole households were baptised. True, it doesn't say there were babies in that household, but there could have been. Babies and toddlers cannot confess faith - but that doesn't mean that the Lord couldn't bless/teach/minister to them.
These days, baptism or christening, is sometimes done as a ritual - "get the baby done". And though the parents and godparents say vows, they may not necessarily have faith. Also, cults like Mormons and JWs baptise - yet they don't believe parts of the Christian Gospel.
 

d taylor

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...Because many do not believe all is needed for a person to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation, is belief in Jesus. They add additional works to faith, so really they do not believe that faith in Jesus gives a person God's free gift of Eternal Life. It could be faith + baptism, repentance, obedience, confessing Jesus, obeying commandments, etc....

...This forum is full of people who hold to a faith plus something type of salvation, probably 95%+
 
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oikonomia

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If baptism saves then why is there so much of an emphasis on faith for salvation throughout the Bible? What I mean by that is if salvation saves (which is usually administered upon infants) why does the Bible seem to suggest that the initial act of salvation begins when a person puts their faith in Jesus Christ?
There is the need not only to be saved from God's judgment. There is a need to be saved from this crooked and perverse generation for the sake of God's purpose.

The Israelites were saved n Egypt from the judging angel by blood of the lamb smeared upon the doorposts of their houses. God's judgment PASSED OVER them and they were saved.

Then there was the need for them to leave Egypt. And Pharoah did not want to let them go. He persued them into the Red Sea. The Isrealites were saved from Pharoah trying to keep them in his evil domain by the Red Sea closing on them.

Pharoah symbiolizes Satan who wants to keep Christians in his domain after they receive the gift of redemption.
And the passing through the Red Sea of Israel was their salvation through baptism.
They passed through yet Pharoah and his army were drowned.

Can you see now a two step salvation?
That is all I can write right now.

So saved through baptism is saved though our being joined in Christ in His death and resurrection.
A mere ritual it is not. A live long process of transformation it is.
 
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GodLovesCats

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The Bible is very clear: Baptism means absolutely nothing if you do not already believe Jesus is God. For babies, it is just getting their hair wet. Also, despite the commandment to get baptized, the Bible is clear that baptism is not a requirement for salvation.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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If baptism saves then why is there so much of an emphasis on faith for salvation throughout the Bible? What I mean by that is if salvation saves (which is usually administered upon infants) why does the Bible seem to suggest that the initial act of salvation begins when a person puts their faith in Jesus Christ?
John the Baptist made a clear distinction between his "water" baptism unto repentance and the Holy Spirit Baptism through Jesus Christ of Nazareth for salvation. He makes His Home in the believer through His Spirit. Blessings.

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Was Jesus unsaved for 30 years until he was baptized?
Jesus Baptism by John the Baptist, is mostly misunderstood.

Jesus Baptism, was actually an anointing. In Matthew 3: 4, " John wore clothing made of camel’s hair and had a leather belt around his waist. His food was locusts and wild honey."

When Scripture points out a detail, such as John wearing a leather belt around his waist, it's to show that John was
a prophet who anoints God's chosen. Wearing a leather belt around the waist was the tradition which prophets
wore when anointing kings. See 2 Kings 1-8, the drees of the prophet Elijah.

Samuel anointing of David, was the precursor to Jesus' Baptism(anointing.)

The other thing is, Jesus is Baptized in the Jordan River. It is believed that it is the spot that the Israelites crossed when they entered
the promised land given to them by God.
 
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tturt

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There's "...the doctrine of baptisms,..." (Heb 6:2).

Baptism means immersions and there's 3 main Biblical ones. Each one with outward behaviors resulting from this new, inward, spiritual state.

1 - By The Holy Spirit into Jesus reconcilng us to God (at salvation).
2- By another believer (water baptism) All 3 persons of the Godhead involved in this baptism as well.
3 - By Jesus who sends the promise of the Father baptists us "by," "with" and "in" the Holy Spirit and comes upon us
(The Spirit baptism)


More details:
1 - By The Holy Spirit into Jesus which reconciles us to God is the baptism at salvation. Baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ by believing in His death, burial, and resurrection. We will tell others of our salvation. (Rev 1:5; Matt 26:28; Mark 1:4-9, 16:16; Luk 3:3; 1 Cor 12:13; Acts 2:38; Gal 3:27, II Cor 5:18, Rom )10:9).

Water and Spirit baptism follows salvation - not in a set order though
2 - By another believer (water baptism) "... fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness," (Matt 3:6-16, 28:18-20; Acts 8:39, 10:47, 22:16; John 3:5).

3- - By Jesus who sends the promise of the Father baptists us "by," "with" and "in" the Holy Spirit (The Spirit baptism) includes when the Holy Spirit comes upon us, He endures us with power for service to Him and to keep His Word. (Matt 3:11, 5:16; Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16; John 1:33, Acts 1:5, 8:14-17, 10:44-48, 11:16; I Cor 12:13, Luk 24:49, Eph 5:18, Acts 4:31; I John 3:24; Eze 36:25-28; John 14:25-27).
 
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oikonomia

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Was Jesus unsaved for 30 years until he was baptized?
No.
Jesus was baptized because He lived not by His good life.
He denied Himself and lived by the Father.

It is a misoncpetion to think baptism only signifies putting into death what is evil.
Baptism means putting to death independence . . . period.
And Jesus, though a perfect man, took the lead to do this.
He put aside what He could do by His own innately perfect goodness and lived a crucified life.

He denied Himself throughout His whole life and lived by the Father.
This is why Jesus demonstrated this by taking the lead to have John the Baptism baptize Him as well.

If you need passages to confirm these things I can provide them.
 
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ozso

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No.
Jesus was baptized because He lived not by His good life.
He denied Himself and lived by the Father.

It is a misoncpetion to think baptism only signifies putting into death what is evil.
Baptism means putting to death independence . . . period.
And Jesus, though a perfect man, took the lead to do this.
He put aside what He could do by His own innately perfect goodness and lived a crucified life.

He denied Himself throughout His whole life and lived by the Father.
This is why Jesus demonstrated this by taking the lead to have John the Baptism baptize Him as well.

If you need passages to confirm these things I can provide them.
I was addressing the notion that a Christian is unsaved until they get baptized.
 
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ViaCrucis

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If baptism saves then why is there so much of an emphasis on faith for salvation throughout the Bible? What I mean by that is if salvation saves (which is usually administered upon infants) why does the Bible seem to suggest that the initial act of salvation begins when a person puts their faith in Jesus Christ?

I would encourage you to look into Lutheranism on this subject to see how we Lutherans talk about these things.

To provide a brief and overly simplistic summary of what Lutherans believe:

We begin with the assertion that salvation is the free gift of God that comes to us entirely by God's kindness and generosity, His grace; because Christ has made perfect satisfaction for sinners by His righteous life, and His suffering and death on the cross. The way we receive this gift from God is through faith.

Faith, however, is not our contribution to God, as though we come to God with our little faith and God rewards us by saving us. Rather faith is, to use Luther's own analogy, the empty hands of a beggar. We don't bring our faith to God, rather God gives us faith, works faith, creates faith, strengthens faith. God does this, so that faith is not our work, but God's work in us. How does God work faith in us? By His word.

So, therefore, wherever God's word is, there God is active and at work; He is active and at work to give, create, work, and strengthen faith to us and in us.

So, for example, when the Gospel is preached there God is present and active working, giving, creating, strengthening faith. Where there was no faith, there is now faith--that is what it means to be "born again". To be a brand new person, alive by the power of the Holy Spirit where before we were spiritually dead--dead in our sin, dead to God. God does this by His grace, through His word.

That leads us to baptism. What is baptism? Is baptism a work we do for God? Is baptism a law that God says we must do in order to earn salvation? Well, no. We look at Scripture and in Scripture baptism is always a downward act of God; we don't "do baptism" we receive baptism, we are baptized. We are passive in the Sacrament. And so then when we see the ways Scripture talks about baptism, we see that here God connects with ordinary water something extra, namely His word. Notice what Paul says in Ephesians 5:26, he does not say that we were washed merely with water, but that we were washed with water with the word. Where else can we see God attaching His word to the water of Baptism? God attaches His word to Baptism in several ways, He gives His word that whoever is baptized is forgiven of their sins and receives the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38), He gives His word that whoever is baptized has been buried with Christ, has died with Christ, has been raised up to new life with Christ (Romans 6:3-4, Colossians 2:11-13), He gives in His word that whoever is baptized has been clothed with Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:27). And so on and so forth.

So what is Baptism? Baptism is a precious means of God's grace whereby uniting His word, His promises, with ordinary water He declares our sins to be forgiven on Christ's account; that we have been born again, that we are new creations in Christ, that we belong to Christ and are in Christ.

For this reason it is impossible to separate faith and baptism. It's not an either-or. It's that the one who is baptized has faith given to them, God Himself works, creates, gives, and strengthens faith by His word which is in the Sacrament of Baptism. So that, yes, even the infant who is baptized has faith. For faith does not come from ourselves, but instead is extra nos, from outside of ourselves, from God, a gift of God and not of ourselves (Ephesians 2:8).

It's not that one can either be saved by hearing the Gospel or by being baptized. It's, as Christ says in Mark 16:16, "Whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved". Simultaneously, it is not the lack of baptism that brings condemnation, but the absence of faith, "But whoever does not believe is condemned".

The one who is baptized believes, we know this because God is there in Baptism to work and create faith. The same faith He works and creates through the preaching of the Gospel. The same faith He works and creates through the Lord's Supper, and through the declaration of our forgiveness in the Sacrament of Absolution.

So that in Word and Sacrament God is active, powerful, speaking and declaring us justified on Christ's account. Saving us, through faith, because He is the One giving us faith, creating faith, working faith, strengthening faith in us.

It's not that we just one day made a decision to come to Jesus (in fact, we can't do that at all, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and there is no one who seeks after God, and faith is the gift of God not of ourselves). It's that God comes down and meets us in the Gospel, in the preaching of the Gospel, in Baptism, in the Lord's Supper, etc; and in coming down He says to us, "Christ died for you, your sins are forgiven, you are justified". Justification isn't a moment where we went from unsaved to saved. Justification is the ever-present reality of God declaring us righteous on Christ's account. So that we can confess with the Prophet Jeremiah, "The steadfast love of YHWH never ceases, His mercies never come to an end, they are new every morning, great is Your faithfulness!" (Lamentations 3:22-23). We can confess with St. Peter, "The word of the Lord endures forever!"

God is faithful toward us in the Gospel, for Christ has accomplished the work so that it is finished and complete. But unless it were granted to our hearts by the Holy Spirit, we could not and would not know Christ as our Savior. That's what the Great Commission is all about. We don't say, "Do all these things and God will reward you" we say, "Christ died for you, believe the Good News!".

-CryptoLutheran
 
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tturt

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Baptism isn't limited to water baptism..

There is a baptism at the time of salvation. It is the death to self and being cleansed from sin We are immersed by being spiritually united with Christ by the Holy Spirit who reconciles us to God. This immersion results with us becoming new creatures and members of the body of Christ.

All 3 persons of the Godhead are involved in each baptism.

"And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." I John 5:8
 
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