IDF vs Nezbollah: An objective analysis

[Poke]

Israel drops leaflets before attacking- Hezbollah do not.

There you go whining that Hezbollah doesn't have untouchable airplanes. We can arm Hezbollah and make it a "fair" fight. Of course, your objection is totally disingenuous.

 

[gwynedd1]

Ever read Ps 83?

Yes, lets Ps 83

1: Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God. 2: For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head. 3: They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones. 4: They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. 5: For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee: 6: The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes; 7: Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre; 8: Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah. 9: Do unto them as unto the Midianites; as to Sisera, as to Jabin, at the brook of Kison: 10: Which perished at Endor: they became as dung for the earth. 11: Make their nobles like Oreb, and like Zeeb: yea, all their princes as Zebah, and as Zalmunna: 12: Who said, Let us take to ourselves the houses of God in possession. 13: O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind. 14: As the fire burneth a wood, and as the flame setteth the mountains on fire; 15: So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm. 16: Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD. 17: Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish: 18: That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

That looks like devine intervention to me. It was always God's power that delivered Israel. The prayer is for God to act.

You can have all the military hardware in the world, but if God wants you to lose, you will. Israel surely knows that.

By the way- I believe it is by God's Spirit that Israel has not been beaten- especially considering the odds against them during the Arab-Israeli wars, let alone the evil that confronts them now.

Like I said- God has allowed Israel to exist as a nation-state, for His purpose, and according to His plan. There is simply no other explanation to accept for anyone who believes in a sovereign God.

With Rockefeller, and Rothschild fortunes and The United States behind it I hardly see David and Goliath. That Satan has a time to set up his Kingdom is the answer. It would appear Satan offers this power Matt 4 8: Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9: And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Matt 23 37: O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38: Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39: For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. How can Jerusalem see God when they do not call his name?

 

[MezzaMorta]

Israel has no regard for Lebanese civilians. They do not consider them human. Look what they have done to the Palestinian people for the last 40 years or so. They have subjugated them, oppressed, brutalized and denied them their human rights.

Expecting Israel to care about innocent civilians is expecting morality from a terrorist nation.

Israel was born on terrorism and ethnic cleansing against the Arab peoples of the land and that is how they will continue to exist.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

There you go whining that Hezbollah doesn't have untouchable airplanes. We can arm Hezbollah and make it a "fair" fight. Of course, your objection is totally disingenuous.

F16 is the use of might. It is the Christian support of a Godless Israel that is the issue. It is as absurd , as you say, as the Christian support of Hezbollah. There is no difference.

The Lord is using Hezbollah to turn Jacob/Israel away from Godlessness and into the arms of our Lord and King Jesus the Christ.

1 Kings 11:14 Now Y@hovah raised up an adversary against Solomon, Hadad the Edomite; he [was] a descendant of the king in Edom.

"The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob/Israel.

 

[gwynedd1]

The Lord is using Hezbollah to turn Jacob/Israel away from Godlessness and into the arms of our Lord and King Jesus the Christ.

1 Kings 11:14 Now Y@hovah raised up an adversary against Solomon, Hadad the Edomite; he [was] a descendant of the king in Edom.

"The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob/Israel.

There will be more than Hezbollah. All nations will go for Jacobs throat. It will not be pretty. They are blinded by the Synagogue of Satan.Most will be destroyed.

Zech 13 1: In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. 2: And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. 3: And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. 4: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive: 5: But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth. 6: And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. 7: Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. 8: And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. 9: And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

 

[Easystreet]

Yes I quite agree. I am not certain our role, if it can be delayed. Our role to to bear witness and call for peace. Perhaps it can be delayed, if not I will bear winess to the truth. What will occur in the conflict will not be of God in anyway. Let the World exact its wrath on you but I am trying to alert Christians that they should not invite God's wrath.All will come under judgement. I respond to as I do to you because I once thought Islam was the worst of it as you have stated. In many ways, I am not suprised but I have since discovered that Satan works better from internal corruption and deceit. Satan, the great imitator of God would certainly want to rule from Zion and claim Israel as its people. Jews have been deceived by their blind guides.
Your heart is there Gordon. It is good to warn of Islam but for edification and to call for peace. There is much more to Satan's kingdom than most understand and it is over the entire earth as we speak. God Bless

Agree. There are bad things happening to Christians in all Nations. It just so happens that the amount from Islam has the spot light at present. You are right it is not just Satanic Influenced Islam. God Bless

Gordon

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Evangelicals Quiet About War

By RACHEL ZOLL
[SIZE=-2]ASSOCIATED PRESS[/SIZE]
In the flurry of pro and con statements from American Christians regarding Israel's strikes on Hezbollah guerrillas, one major religious group has remained notably quiet - evangelicals.
The most influential organizations in the movement, usually vocal backers of the Jewish state, have made no formal comment on the war in Lebanon despite pleas from Israelis that they do so.
Among those who have taken no official stand are the National Association of Evangelicals, which represents thousands of local churches and ministries, the 16.2 million-member Southern Baptist Convention and James Dobson's Focus on the Family.
The Rev. Ted Haggard, president of the evangelical association, insists the inaction is not a criticism of Israel, but reflects a new caution about the risks for Christians living in Muslim countries. After the Sept. 11 attacks, American evangelicals came out strongly against terrorists, with some calling Islam a violent religion. That created a backlash overseas.
Haggard said Israeli embassy officials called him several times a day during the first two weeks of the conflict, which erupted last month, asking for a public expression of support. He declined.
"Our silence is not a rejection of Israel or even a hesitation about Israel. Our silence is to try to protect people," said Haggard, pastor of New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo. "There's a rapidly growing evangelical population in virtually every Islamic country. Much of it is underground in the countries that are more radicalized, and many of the Christians survive based on their neighbors just ignoring the fact that they don't go to mosque."
Asked for comment, Richard Land, head of the public policy arm of the Southern Baptist Convention, said only that, "Southern Baptists overwhelmingly support Israel's right to live at peace with her neighbors within secure borders and they pray for the peace of Jerusalem to prevail in the Middle East."
Paul Hetrick, a spokesman for Focus on the Family, said Friday that his organization was "contemplating issuing a statement."
The three groups have far greater impact on public policy than do Christian Zionists, a minority among conservative Christians who back Israel unequivocally because they see its existence as part of biblical prophesy.
Many evangelicals have individually expressed support for Israel. Evangelist Pat Robertson was in Jerusalem this week, where he joined hands with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert to pray for victory in Lebanon.
However, Robertson's support among American evangelicals is waning and other conservative Christians have quietly expressed concern about the hundreds of Lebanese civilians killed.
While Israel is the biblical homeland, Lebanon also holds a special place in the Christian community.
About 36 percent of its population is Christian, comprised mostly of Orthodox Christians and Roman Catholics, according to the World Christian Database at Gordon Conwell-Theological Seminary. And Christians across the spectrum of belief have long-standing missionary ties there, setting up hospitals, schools and other ministries.
The Web site of Christianity Today, a top evangelical magazine, has drawn comments from Lebanese Christians pleading with evangelicals to do more to end the violence.
"I think there is a little concern about being too closely identified with Israel on the part of some evangelicals," said Corwin Smidt, a political scientist at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Mich., who studies evangelicals. "I think there is some uneasiness."
Those reservations have mainly been expressed by the Roman Catholic Church and the more liberal mainline Protestant groups. The World Council of Churches, which represents about 350 Protestant and Orthodox Christian churches, along with the Lutheran World Federation and the Vatican have repeatedly called for a cease-fire.
Nathan Diament, public policy director for the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America, which has strengthened ties with evangelicals in the last few years, said "Israel needs as many friends as she can get right now," but he was not worried that some groups have not spoken out.
"I don't think anyone doubts the great support that Israel has in the evangelical community," he said.
--

 

[Treppers]

Click here for pictures

Israeli Military Brutally Attacks Non-Violent Protestors in Bil’in Village

August 11th, 2006

Today, August 11, the Israeli army and Border Police brutally prevented Bil’in’s weekly non-violent demonstration, by firing rubber bullets and sound grenades on protestors as they marched through the village on their way to the Apartheid wall. Thirteen people from Bil’in, Israelis and internationals, have been injured, including an Israeli in critical condition who was shot just above his right ear with a rubber bullet at close range. He is now going into surgery at Tel Hashomer hospital to remove the rubber bullet that is lodged in his skull. Another demonstrator from Denmark has suffered a fracture in her skull after a soldier beat her with the butt of his gun.


The demonstrators marched through the village carrying coffins representing the children who have been killed by the Israeli army in order to protest their “New Style of Killing”. The border police and army were stationed along the route of the march that leads to the Apartheid Wall, where the demonstrations usually take place. The military began firing when the protestors were less than 50 meters away, immediately causing many injuries.

The violence began so early that the ambulance (usually present at the demonstrations in case of injuries) had not yet arrived. At first the Israeli army would not let the protestors evacuate the Israeli who was shot in the head, and was suffering from blood loss. Eventually the soldiers took him in an army ambulance to Tel Hashomer hospital in Tel Aviv.


The soldiers then chased after the protestors and beat them as they were retreating, causing more injuries. Soldiers detained Jonathon Pollack, a prominent Israeli supporter and later released him. The army claimed that it was an “illegal demonstration” despite the fact that the Israeli Court ruled that Bil’in has a right to hold demonstrations.

This is a list of those injured at the Bil’in demonstration today, Friday 11th Aug.

- An Israeli, shot with 3 rubber bullets at close range, with injuries to head and neck. He is currently undergoing surgery.
- Two villagers, El Haj Wa’el Fahene and Nimer Mustafa Abu Rahma were both shot with rubber bullets to their backs and legs.
- Gavin from UK, beaten
- Martin from Sweden, beaten
- Rina from Denmark, hit with a rifle butt on side of head
- Jonathon from Israel, shot with rubber bullet
- Uri a 20 year old from Israel, struck by rubber bullet
- Rojo Didier from France (43 years old), shot with rubber bullet in back and leg
- Jonas from USA, struck with rubber bullets on hip and leg
- Cheryl aged 45 from USA, struck with rubber bullet to the back
- Margaret from UK, struck by exploding sound grenade
- Yoshki, a 22 year old journalist from Japan, shot by rubber bullet

It is likely that an official complaint will be made to the Israeli authorities about the violent behaviour of the soldiers.

 

[Treppers]

Following the hostilities between Israel and Hizbullah, a number of Israeli soldiers are refusing to participate on the basis of their objection to the conflict: these men and women face imprisonment for the peaceful expression of their legitimate beliefs.

Click here for more

 

[Morghaine]

Israel has no regard for Lebanese civilians. They do not consider them human. Look what they have done to the Palestinian people for the last 40 years or so. They have subjugated them, oppressed, brutalized and denied them their human rights.

Expecting Israel to care about innocent civilians is expecting morality from a terrorist nation.

Israel was born on terrorism and ethnic cleansing against the Arab peoples of the land and that is how they will continue to exist.

I am astounded! Would you care to research or remember what has happened to the Jews since their beginning? The holocaust was not the only horrible thing to happen to the Jews. They have established their own country, and are defending themselves. When just about all the Arab countries have claimed the only solution is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, and rejoice with every Israelite is killed - and Israel has never said any such thing, and every attack is an attempt to defend themselves, when they have endured numerous suicide bomb attacks on their buses, etc., you can honestly say they are "born on terrorism and ethnic cleansing against the Arab peoples of the land and that is how they will continue to exist"? I'm sorry, I don't know what else to say.

 

[MezzaMorta]

I am astounded! Would you care to research or remember what has happened to the Jews since their beginning? The holocaust was not the only horrible thing to happen to the Jews.

The holocaust was a horrible thing, no one is to say it is not. How ever 6 million Jews dieing in the holocaust does not give the Jewish people the right to deny another people their human rights, break international laws and establish a nation out of terrorism and ethnic cleansing.

One would think that the Jewish people having suffered though the holocaust would have unequaled respect for Human rights and the right to self determination. But as it stands Israel oppresses over 6 million Palestinians, denies them their basic human rights and has done so since 1967.

They have established their own country, and are defending themselves.

You can not come in, robe, rape and commit genocide then say when those you are opressesing fight back that you are just defending yourself.

hen just about all the Arab countries have claimed the only solution is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, and rejoice with every Israelite is killed - and Israel has never said any such thing

"[Palestinian Arab] villages inside the Jewish state that resist 'should be destroyed .... and their inhabitants expelled beyond the borders of the Jewish state.' Meanwhile, 'Palestinian residents of the urban quarters which dominate access to or egress from towns should be expelled beyond the borders of the Jewish state in the event of their resistance.' " -David Ben-Gurion

He was the first prime minister of Israel and self admitted terrorist.



Israel has no right to defend itself as it has no right to exist.

 

[Morghaine]

The holocaust was a horrible thing, no one is to say it is not. How ever 6 million Jews dieing in the holocaust does not give the Jewish people the right to deny another people their human rights, break international laws and establish a nation out of terrorism and ethnic cleansing.

One would think that the Jewish people having suffered though the holocaust would have unequaled respect for Human rights and the right to self determination. But as it stands Israel oppresses over 6 million Palestinians, denies them their basic human rights and has done so since 1967.



You can not come in, robe, rape and commit genocide then say when those you are opressesing fight back that you are just defending yourself.



"[Palestinian Arab] villages inside the Jewish state that resist 'should be destroyed .... and their inhabitants expelled beyond the borders of the Jewish state.' Meanwhile, 'Palestinian residents of the urban quarters which dominate access to or egress from towns should be expelled beyond the borders of the Jewish state in the event of their resistance.' " -David Ben-Gurion

He was the first prime minister of Israel and self admitted terrorist.



Israel has no right to defend itself as it has no right to exist.

I'd like to see your proof of rob, rape and genocide by the Israeli's. The word genocide means "The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group." Where did you get that Israel is trying to commit genocide, and against what nation, race, political or ethnic group?

"Israel has no right to defend itself as it has no right to exist"?? Are you serious? What gives you the right to make such a claim?

 

[MezzaMorta]

I'd like to see your proof of rob, rape and genocide by the Israeli's. The word genocide means "The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group." Where did you get that Israel is trying to commit genocide, and against what nation, race, political or ethnic group?

"Israel has no right to defend itself as it has no right to exist"?? Are you serious? What gives you the right to make such a claim?

Ethnic cleansing is genocide. Israel engaged in a systematic and prolonged campaign to drive the Arabs from land they wished to colonize and settled. They continue to engage in such practices today in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Destroying Palestinian homes to build Jewish colonies.

 

[ContraMundum]

Israel has no regard for Lebanese civilians. They do not consider them human. Look what they have done to the Palestinian people for the last 40 years or so. They have subjugated them, oppressed, brutalized and denied them their human rights.

Expecting Israel to care about innocent civilians is expecting morality from a terrorist nation.

Israel was born on terrorism and ethnic cleansing against the Arab peoples of the land and that is how they will continue to exist.

This is easily the stupidest post I have ever seen.

Surely this is not serious, and if it is, Lord help us.

Hey Mezza- are you involved with the SSPX or any other "trad" organisation by any chance?

 

[ContraMundum]

Ethnic cleansing is genocide. Israel engaged in a systematic and prolonged campaign to drive the Arabs from land they wished to colonize and settled.

Then how do you explain the large number of Arab Israelis happily living in Israel and supportive of their government? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel

Here's something in that article: "As many as 200,000 others have emigrated into Israel from the Gaza Strip and West Bank, receiving citizenship under family-unification provisions."

If Israel is the pit of all things evil, how do you explain that?

By the way- did you know that Jews have always lived in Palestine too?

They continue to engage in such practices today in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Destroying Palestinian homes to build Jewish colonies.

Then how do you explain incidents of late where Jewish settlers have had their homes bulldozed to give to Arabs?

I think you are not getting both sides of the story. Check it out.

 

[Poke]

Then how do you explain the large number of Arab Israelis happily living in Israel and supportive of their government? emigrated into Israel from the Gaza Strip

At least they don't have to worry about Israel dropping bombs on them in Israel as they had to worry about in Gaza.

and West Bank, receiving citizenship under family-unification provisions."

Israel has banned Arabs from family unification.

If Israel is the pit of all things evil, how do you explain that?

Explain what? Displacing Arabs? Treating Arabs as 2nd-class citizens? Banning family reunification? Trying to remove 500,000 Arabs with a land swap? I explain it by Israel being the pit of all things evil.

Then how do you explain incidents of late where Jewish settlers have had their homes bulldozed to give to Arabs?

Are you talking about Israel moving out 85 hundred settlers from the Gaza strip to open it up to increased military oppression? Israel gave those jews new homes, unlike the innocent Arabs who have had their homes destroyed by the pit of all things evil. And, if Israel weren't evil, it wouldn't have bulldozed those homes, but let Palestinians have them after the pullout (after all, the US paid for them and will pay for their replacements).

 

[Easystreet]

Israel has no regard for Lebanese civilians. They do not consider them human. Look what they have done to the Palestinian people for the last 40 years or so. They have subjugated them, oppressed, brutalized and denied them their human rights.

Expecting Israel to care about innocent civilians is expecting morality from a terrorist nation.

Israel was born on terrorism and ethnic cleansing against the Arab peoples of the land and that is how they will continue to exist.

Mezza, Question? Given the opertunity would you witness to a Jew whom you feel posses this hate you speak of and offer him the Gospel of Christ leading to Salvation and eternal life?

Gordon

 

[Jipsah]

Mezza, Question? Given the opertunity would you witness to a Jew whom you feel posses this hate you speak of and offer him the Gospel of Christ leading to Salvation and eternal life?

If he did it in Israel he could be arrested...

 

[ContraMundum]

If he did it in Israel he could be arrested...

Not true Jips.

 

[ContraMundum]

Most of them are there because they were there before the state of Israel (about a quarter of them were on land later annexed by Israel). I doubt they are supportive of the Israeli government. Many other Arabs have been displaced by Israel.

You talk without any first hand knowledge. How many Arab Israelis do you know? I know a few.

At least they don't have to worry about Israel dropping bombs on them in Israel as they had to worry about in Gaza.

Right- instead they have to worry about Muslims firsing rockets at them or blowing them up in busses etc.

Incidentaly, a lot of the casualties in Israel have been Arab Israelis.

Israel has banned Arabs from family unification.



Explain what? Displacing Arabs? Treating Arabs as 2nd-class citizens? Banning family reunification? Trying to remove 500,000 Arabs with a land swap? I explain it by Israel being the pit of all things evil.



Are you talking about Israel moving out 85 hundred settlers from the Gaza strip to open it up to increased military oppression? Israel gave those jews new homes, unlike the innocent Arabs who have had their homes destroyed by the pit of all things evil. And, if Israel weren't evil, it wouldn't have bulldozed those homes, but let Palestinians have them after the pullout (after all, the US paid for them and will pay for their replacements).

Poke, why do you make it a habit of taking things out of context and then making exaggerated points that really remain unsupportable?