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IDF vs Nezbollah: An objective analysis

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biblthmp said:
Your revision of history is incredible. The kidnapping of 2 IDF soldiers, and the rockets started on the same day, and the Invasion came as a respone to the kidnapping, and rockets.

Israel has kidnapped thousands of people, including thousands of people from Lebanon. And, Israel went to their countries to do it. Hezbollah never left Lebanon. Zionists apologists can't even admit this simple fact.

It's true that Hezbollah fired a few rockets that day. But, these rockets were little more than fireworks and did no harm. The purpose of these rockets were to divert Israeli attention while Hezbollah engaged the Israeli invaders (remember, Hezbollah never left Lebanon).

The fact still remains that Israel started this war, insanely and obstensibly to get back two captured soldiers. And, that the real rocket fire didn't start until after Israel's massive assault on Lebanon.

What you want us to believe is that Hezbollah invaded Israel, captured the soldiers and then fired an avalanche of rockets at Israel. And, then poor, picked on Israel started defending itself. That just isn't true.

Hezbollah wouldn't even exist if Israel hadn't tried to steal Lebanon in the first place.
 
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Easystreet

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Addressed to those who hate Israel, or are against Israel

Who sends there sons and daughters to death because their philosophy is to drive Israel off the face of the earth.

They don't hide their intend. Are you blind. Are you Islamic and on as a spy? I can't understand why you can accept that the Islamic Nations have repeatedly told the world they hate Israel, they have mouthed and barged that their goal is to completely eradicate Jews.

HOW CLEAR DOES IT GET?

I love you my friend but I wonder where you mind is when all the evidence is against Islam and the peoples that believe that trash and devilish religion.

Gordon

To all Messianic Jews and if some of you are here as a Jewish person only let it be known that to my knowledge Dispensation Believers have never been again Israel. A true born again believer who is a Dispensation Believer is not against Israel, we love and pray for the day when Messiah will return and save Israel and all believers in Christ.

God Bless
 
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Treppers

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I am not against Israel, Jews or anyone. I am against the the extreme interpreations of the political ideology called Zionism.

As have said, before Israel started its massive bombardment of Lebanon, Hezbollah fired nothing at Israel (see this piece "The abduction followed a rocket exchange along the border. At least two rockets fired from south Lebanon exploded near the Israeli town of Shlomi." As I said, the hundreds of rockets at Israeli civilians only kicked off once Israel started its massive bombardment, no civilians were killed before Israel invaded).

Not once in my posting have I ever generalised. I have never said, "Jews are -negative statement-" or "All Israelis are -negative statement-"

A significant number of Jews, Israeli and otherwise, are horrified at their government's onslaught.
 
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Treppers

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Gordon, I am sure you cannot mean what you said in that other thread, but please don't use such wild generalisations.

"Who sends there sons and daughters to death because their philosophy is to drive Israel off the face of the earth" - it's statements like this I have real problems with. To start with, the sons and daughters make up their own mind (if you'd take the time to read about them and their motivations).

99% of Muslims are good, caring people, just the same as anyone else. Please do not make use wild generalisations to lump this decent, moral 99% of Muslims with Osama, Hamas suicide bombers and their ilk.
 
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gwynedd1

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biblthmp said:
Your revision of history is incredible. The kidnapping of 2 IDF soldiers, and the rockets started on the same day, and the Invasion came as a respone to the kidnapping, and rockets.

I believe you owe Treppers an apology.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/lebanontime1.html


Hezbollah enters Israel and captures two Israeli soldiers on July 12. In response, Israel launches a major military attack, bombing the Lebanese airport and parts of southern Lebanon. Hezbollah retaliates by launching hundreds of rockets and missles—believed to have been supplied by Syria and Iran—into Israel.

On July 18, an Israeli general indicates that Israel's offensive in Lebanon would last several more weeks, until Hezbollah is routed. About 25 Israelis and 230 Lebanese have been killed in the fighting.
 
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gwynedd1

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applepowerpc said:
You know, it's funny there happens to be another thread "Israel acting like Hitler" right now. Did you know that in September, 1939, the citizens of Nazi Germany were led to believe that Poland attacked & provoked Germany? Even the Nazis thought they were only defending themselves.

Yes, false pre-texts for war are the rule, not the exception. We Christians burned Rome can you believe it?
 
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gwynedd1

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GordonSlocum said:
Addressed to those who hate Israel, or are against Israel

Who sends there sons and daughters to death because their philosophy is to drive Israel off the face of the earth.

They don't hide their intend. Are you blind. Are you Islamic and on as a spy? I can't understand why you can accept that the Islamic Nations have repeatedly told the world they hate Israel, they have mouthed and barged that their goal is to completely eradicate Jews.

HOW CLEAR DOES IT GET?

I love you my friend but I wonder where you mind is when all the evidence is against Islam and the peoples that believe that trash and devilish religion.

Gordon

To all Messianic Jews and if some of you are here as a Jewish person only let it be known that to my knowledge Dispensation Believers have never been again Israel. A true born again believer who is a Dispensation Believer is not against Israel, we love and pray for the day when Messiah will return and save Israel and all believers in Christ.

God Bless

Lets be clear on the works of Satan. We can agree that Islam rejects the sacrifice and divinity of Christ. They believe the Qur'an corrects the Jewish and Christians scriptures and therefore is itself a corruption.

Please tell me what the star of David is and where it is from.
 
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Treppers

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Israel's occupation of the Palestinians is not the moral equivalent of the Nazi genocide of the Jews. But it does not have to be. No, this is not genocide, but it is repression, and it is brutal. And it has become frighteningly natural. Occupation is about the domination and dispossession of one people by another. It is about the destruction of their property and the destruction of their soul. Occupation aims, at its core, to deny Palestinians their humanity by denying them the right to determine their existence, to live normal lives in their own homes. Occupation is humiliation. It is despair and desperation. And just as there is no moral equivalence or symmetry between the Holocaust and the occupation, so there is no moral equivalence or symmetry between the occupier and the occupied, no matter how much we as Jews regard ourselves as victims.
...
It was not until I lived with Palestinians under occupation that I found at least part of the answers to some of these questions. I was not searching for the answers; they were thrust upon me. I learned, for example, what sheer terror looked like from my friend Rabia, eighteen years old, who, frozen by fear and uncontrollable shaking, stood glued in the middle of a room we shared in a refugee camp, unable to move, while Israeli soldiers were trying to break down the front door to our shelter. I experienced terror while watching Israeli soldiers beat a pregnant women in her belly because she flashed a V-sign at them, and I was too paralyzed by fear to help her. I could more concretely understand the meaning of loss and displacement when I watched grown men sob and women scream as Israeli army bulldozers destroyed their home and everything in it because they built their house without a permit, which the Israeli authorities had refused to give them.
...
And it is from this context of deprivation and suffocation, now largely forgotten, that the horrific and despicable suicide bombings have emerged and taken the lives of more innocents. Why should innocent Israelis, among them my aunt and her grandchildren, pay the price of occupation? Like the settlements, razed homes, and barricades that preceded them, the suicide bombers have not always been there.

...
I want to end this essay with a quote from Irena Klepfisz, a writer and child survivor of the Warsaw ghetto, whose father spirited her and her mother out of the ghetto and then himself died in the ghetto uprising.

"I have concluded that one way to pay tribute to those we loved who struggled, resisted and died is to hold on to their vision and their fierce outrage at the destruction of the ordinary life of their people. It is this outrage we need to keep alive in our daily life and apply it to all situations, whether they involve Jews or non-Jews. It is this outrage we must use to fuel our actions and vision whenever we see any signs of the disruptions of common life: the hysteria of a mother grieving for the teenager who has been shot; a family stunned in front of a vandalized or demolished home; a family separated, displaced; arbitrary and unjust laws that demand the closing or opening of shops and schools; humiliation of a people whose culture is alien and deemed inferior; a people left homeless without citizenship; a people living under military rule. Because of our experience, we recognize these evils as obstacles to peace. At those moments of recognition, we remember the past, feel the outrage that inspired the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto and allow it to guide us in present struggles."

For me, these words define the true meaning of Judaism and the lessons my parents sought to impart.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Sara Roy, author of The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development, among other works, is a senior research scholar at the Center for Middle Eastern Studies, Harvard University. This essay was given as the Second Annual Holocaust Remembrance Lecture at the Center for American and Jewish Studies and the George W. Truett Seminary, Baylor University, on 8 April 2002.
Link
 
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Easystreet

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You won't find Jews and Christians doing what Muslims do. You are concerned about a star and where it is from.

Are you concerned about the murdering of innocent poeple by Muslims? Where is our thinking? What should I really be concerned about "A Star" or "Islamic Slaughter of Innocent people"?


FAITH UNDER FIRE

Report: Muslims slaughter 600 Christians
'Bodies of pregnant women were ripped open and . . . burned'

Posted: May 15, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern


© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com
Muslims have slaughtered an estimated 600 Christians this week in Nigeria, according to the Christian Association of Nigeria.

Islamic Nations Slaughter, Enslave Christians
December 16, 2001
by Tom Barrett Editor Conservative Truth
THERE IS NOT ONE CHRISTIAN NATION ON EARTH WHERE MUSLIMS ARE PERSECUTED. Yet in 83% of nations where the majority of the population are Muslims, there is systematic government persecution of Christians. (See "Religious Freedom in the Majority Islamic Countries" in the Resources section below.) This persecution includes imposing the death penalty for sharing the Christian faith with a Muslim; national laws prohibiting conversion from Islam to Christianity; destruction of churches; and murder or expulsion of Christian missionaries. Even in the few predominantly Muslim countries where the government does not openly participate in the persecution, it ignores and even encourages illegal persecution by Muslims against Christians.

Islamic Nations Slaughter and Enslave Christians
By Tom Barrett (07/10/2005)

THERE IS NOT ONE CHRISTIAN NATION ON EARTH WHERE MUSLIMS ARE PERSECUTED. Yet in 83% of nations where the majority of the population are Muslims, there is systematic government persecution of Christians. (See "Religious Freedom in the Majority Islamic Countries" in the Resources section below.) This persecution includes imposing the death penalty for sharing the Christian faith with a Muslim; national laws prohibiting conversion from Islam to Christianity; destruction of churches; and murder or expulsion of Christian missionaries. Even in the few predominantly Muslim countries where the government does not openly participate in the persecution, it ignores and even encourages illegal persecution by Muslims against Christians.





Nigerian Muslims Slaughter Christians, Torch 11 Churches
Reuters reports that some of the deaths even occurred inside the churches!!

"They went on the rampage, burning shops and churches of the Christians. The protesters killed the others. Some were even killed in the churches," said Joseph Hayab, north-west secretary of the Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN).




 
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Easystreet

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Where should our concern by "A star" or the following?

FAITH UNDER FIRE

Report: Muslims slaughter 600 Christians
'Bodies of pregnant women were ripped open and . . . burned'

Posted: May 15, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern


© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com
Muslims have slaughtered an estimated 600 Christians this week in Nigeria, according to the Christian Association of Nigeria.

Islamic Nations Slaughter, Enslave Christians
December 16, 2001
by Tom Barrett Editor Conservative Truth
THERE IS NOT ONE CHRISTIAN NATION ON EARTH WHERE MUSLIMS ARE PERSECUTED. Yet in 83% of nations where the majority of the population are Muslims, there is systematic government persecution of Christians. (See "Religious Freedom in the Majority Islamic Countries" in the Resources section below.) This persecution includes imposing the death penalty for sharing the Christian faith with a Muslim; national laws prohibiting conversion from Islam to Christianity; destruction of churches; and murder or expulsion of Christian missionaries. Even in the few predominantly Muslim countries where the government does not openly participate in the persecution, it ignores and even encourages illegal persecution by Muslims against Christians.

Islamic Nations Slaughter and Enslave Christians
By Tom Barrett (07/10/2005)

THERE IS NOT ONE CHRISTIAN NATION ON EARTH WHERE MUSLIMS ARE PERSECUTED. Yet in 83% of nations where the majority of the population are Muslims, there is systematic government persecution of Christians. (See "Religious Freedom in the Majority Islamic Countries" in the Resources section below.) This persecution includes imposing the death penalty for sharing the Christian faith with a Muslim; national laws prohibiting conversion from Islam to Christianity; destruction of churches; and murder or expulsion of Christian missionaries. Even in the few predominantly Muslim countries where the government does not openly participate in the persecution, it ignores and even encourages illegal persecution by Muslims against Christians.





Nigerian Muslims Slaughter Christians, Torch 11 Churches
Reuters reports that some of the deaths even occurred inside the churches!!

"They went on the rampage, burning shops and churches of the Christians. The protesters killed the others. Some were even killed in the churches," said Joseph Hayab, north-west secretary of the Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN).




 
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gwynedd1

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GordonSlocum said:
Addressed to those who hate Israel, or are against Israel

Who sends there sons and daughters to death because their philosophy is to drive Israel off the face of the earth.

They don't hide their intend. Are you blind. Are you Islamic and on as a spy? I can't understand why you can accept that the Islamic Nations have repeatedly told the world they hate Israel, they have mouthed and barged that their goal is to completely eradicate Jews.

HOW CLEAR DOES IT GET?

I love you my friend but I wonder where you mind is when all the evidence is against Islam and the peoples that believe that trash and devilish religion.

Gordon

To all Messianic Jews and if some of you are here as a Jewish person only let it be known that to my knowledge Dispensation Believers have never been again Israel. A true born again believer who is a Dispensation Believer is not against Israel, we love and pray for the day when Messiah will return and save Israel and all believers in Christ.

God Bless

"Barry Chamish believes that the Armenian Genocide was a dry run for the Jewish Holocaust. Berry is a former Israeli military man turned to investigative reporter who is warning his fellow Jews about a coming Second Holocaust of the Jews in Israel proper. He published few books which are available from his web site."


The threat for Jews is as I have said in repetition is others who are "Jews" or say they are Jews.

"Barry's research lead him to the fact that basically both the planners and instigators of the Armenian Genocide of WWI and the Jewish Holocaust of WWII were the same entities and that those same entities are planning another holocaust of the Jews during the coming WWIII. Barry wrote about the outcome of his research in those lines in two articles of his which are posted in "articles" section of his above mentioned web-site. The first article is "Kerry, Gaza and the New Sabbatean Holocaust," and the second "The Deutsch Devils."


And Avrum Ehrlich, in his above mentioned book, writes: " The extent to which Jews were involved in the Young Turk revolution is debated, some arguing that Jews and Donme dominated the Committee of the Union and Progress Party (C.U.P) which gained control of the State. Others argue that this was anti-Semitic rhetoric and exaggerated and that while the Jews supported the revolution on a grass roots level, they were not highly represented in the upper echelons of the party. Indeed British diplomats did report to the home office that a Jewish-Masonic conspiracy was at work favoring the revolution. The Donme are believed to have been equally involved in the revolution but exact details are less known due to a number of reasons...It was via the Masonic lodges that the Donme, the Jews, Bektashi and secularists who were less accepted in mainstream society were able to meet on an equal footing, many of them becoming major instruments of the revolution...Whether the suspicions that Masonry is responsible for sedition and subversive activities are true or not, in this context they were a convenient home for the revolution, providing lodges and personnel, secrecy and structures for the revolution."


"


The Turkish author, Mevlan Z. Rifat, was referring to those Donmeh, when he wrote in his book "Inner Folds of the Ottoman Revolution" 1929.-- "The Armenian genocide was decided in August 1910 and October 1911 by a Young Turk committee composed entirely of displaced Balkan Jews in the format of a syncretist Jewish-Muslim sect. Including Tallat, Enver, Behaeddin Shakir, Jemal, and Nazim posturing as Muslims, it met in the Rothschild-funded Grant Orient loge in now Greek Salonika. No wonder the infrastructure was in place by August by August, 1914, in Erzerum for the Great Massacres, almost three months before Turkey entered the Great War. During World War I and ever since, Jews have held prominent positions in the Turkish government, including three presidents, Ataturk, Inonu, and Bayar." No known English translation exist of Rifat's book, however it was translated to Armenian in 1939. Rifat seems to be a pro-Sultan nationalist Turk."

http://www.panarmenian.net/library/eng/?nid=60&cid=10

Sabbatai Zevi and Jacob Frank and there followers supported by Rothschild money(and agents Cicil Rhodes, Warburg, Morgan, Rockefeller etc) is the financial and philosophical force behind modern Zionism. While typical Jews reject them correctly as apostates the head is never cut off from Frankist infiltration due to the limitless cash suppy of the Kabbalistic banking dynasty.

Again being a Croat I know the Frankisk party infiltrated and helped radicalize Ustase.


Israelis, mostly, cannot accept that their leadership is planning to dismember their nation beginning with Gush Katif. And more than anything else, they cannot believe that Jews would be responsible for the deaths of untold numbers of fellow Jews. The explanation I have offered in my new book Shabtai Tzvi, Labor Zionism And The Holocaust, is that Judaism has been infiltrated by the secret followers of the 16th Century false messiah Shabtai Tzvi and his second coming in the form of Jacob Frank, whose 18th Century Frankist movement resulted in the establishment of Labor Zionism. The Frankists believe in an anti-Judaism, whose tenets consider the murder of true Torah-believing Jews, as a mitzvah. Too incredible to believe, right? So why don't we look at a piece of 20th Century history? Let us examine the slaughter of Croatian Jews by Frankist "Jews" like Pavelic and Kvaternik.


Israel is not a safety zone for Jews, it was not intended to be, nor will it be. The Kabbalists are believers in eugenics and the purging of the "lessor" brethern during WWII was consistent. They believe in a massianic prophecy that is appocolyptic . Well, so do we.


Zech 14

[1] Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
[2] For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
[3] Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

Zionist Christians find themselves supporting a Satanic, Kabbalistic trap called the state of Israel. Satan's plan is for Israel to be his kingdom until Christ mops up the entire mess. The trap is layed for the whole world, Jews and all.

The Kabbalistic, Frankist path to power is quite brilliant. They helped to liquidate the antiZionist Torah Jew that resisted Zionism and now hide behind the stigma of anti-Semitism which they helped create.

Islam is out in the open and has no money. Not much to fear.
 
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Easystreet

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gwynedd1 said:
"Barry Chamish believes that the Armenian Genocide was a dry run for the Jewish Holocaust. Berry is a former Israeli military man turned to investigative reporter who is warning his fellow Jews about a coming Second Holocaust of the Jews in Israel proper. He published few books which are available from his web site."


The threat for Jews is as I have said in repetition is others who are "Jews" or say they are Jews.

"Barry's research lead him to the fact that basically both the planners and instigators of the Armenian Genocide of WWI and the Jewish Holocaust of WWII were the same entities and that those same entities are planning another holocaust of the Jews during the coming WWIII. Barry wrote about the outcome of his research in those lines in two articles of his which are posted in "articles" section of his above mentioned web-site. The first article is "Kerry, Gaza and the New Sabbatean Holocaust," and the second "The Deutsch Devils."


And Avrum Ehrlich, in his above mentioned book, writes: " The extent to which Jews were involved in the Young Turk revolution is debated, some arguing that Jews and Donme dominated the Committee of the Union and Progress Party (C.U.P) which gained control of the State. Others argue that this was anti-Semitic rhetoric and exaggerated and that while the Jews supported the revolution on a grass roots level, they were not highly represented in the upper echelons of the party. Indeed British diplomats did report to the home office that a Jewish-Masonic conspiracy was at work favoring the revolution. The Donme are believed to have been equally involved in the revolution but exact details are less known due to a number of reasons...It was via the Masonic lodges that the Donme, the Jews, Bektashi and secularists who were less accepted in mainstream society were able to meet on an equal footing, many of them becoming major instruments of the revolution...Whether the suspicions that Masonry is responsible for sedition and subversive activities are true or not, in this context they were a convenient home for the revolution, providing lodges and personnel, secrecy and structures for the revolution."


"


The Turkish author, Mevlan Z. Rifat, was referring to those Donmeh, when he wrote in his book "Inner Folds of the Ottoman Revolution" 1929.-- "The Armenian genocide was decided in August 1910 and October 1911 by a Young Turk committee composed entirely of displaced Balkan Jews in the format of a syncretist Jewish-Muslim sect. Including Tallat, Enver, Behaeddin Shakir, Jemal, and Nazim posturing as Muslims, it met in the Rothschild-funded Grant Orient loge in now Greek Salonika. No wonder the infrastructure was in place by August by August, 1914, in Erzerum for the Great Massacres, almost three months before Turkey entered the Great War. During World War I and ever since, Jews have held prominent positions in the Turkish government, including three presidents, Ataturk, Inonu, and Bayar." No known English translation exist of Rifat's book, however it was translated to Armenian in 1939. Rifat seems to be a pro-Sultan nationalist Turk."

http://www.panarmenian.net/library/eng/?nid=60&cid=10

Sabbatai Zevi and Jacob Frank and there followers supported by Rothschild money(and agents Cicil Rhodes, Warburg, Morgan, Rockefeller etc) is the financial and philosophical force behind modern Zionism. While typical Jews reject them correctly as apostates the head is never cut off from Frankist infiltration due to the limitless cash suppy of the Kabbalistic banking dynasty.

Again being a Croat I know the Frankisk party infiltrated and helped radicalize Ustase.


Israelis, mostly, cannot accept that their leadership is planning to dismember their nation beginning with Gush Katif. And more than anything else, they cannot believe that Jews would be responsible for the deaths of untold numbers of fellow Jews. The explanation I have offered in my new book Shabtai Tzvi, Labor Zionism And The Holocaust, is that Judaism has been infiltrated by the secret followers of the 16th Century false messiah Shabtai Tzvi and his second coming in the form of Jacob Frank, whose 18th Century Frankist movement resulted in the establishment of Labor Zionism. The Frankists believe in an anti-Judaism, whose tenets consider the murder of true Torah-believing Jews, as a mitzvah. Too incredible to believe, right? So why don't we look at a piece of 20th Century history? Let us examine the slaughter of Croatian Jews by Frankist "Jews" like Pavelic and Kvaternik.


Israel is not a safety zone for Jews, it was not intended to be, nor will it be. The Kabbalists are believers in eugenics and the purging of the "lessor" brethern during WWII was consistent. They believe in a massianic prophecy that is appocolyptic . Well, so do we.


Zech 14

[1] Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
[2] For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
[3] Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

Zionist Christians find themselves supporting a Satanic, Kabbalistic trap called the state of Israel. Satan's plan is for Israel to be his kingdom until Christ mops up the entire mess. The trap is layed for the whole world, Jews and all.

The Kabbalistic, Frankist path to power is quite brilliant. They helped to liquidate the antiZionist Torah Jew that resisted Zionism and now hide behind the stigma of anti-Semitism which they helped create.

Islam is out in the open and has no money. Not much to fear.

It is interesting to say the least.

Would you not agree that from an ethic perspective Jew or Gentile (that includes a bunch of different peoples) that of each group some are found on this side and that side.

In a nut shell, All of the world will be against the land of Israel. All governments will be at war against Israel. They will be against all that God is doing and going to do. The climax is the Second coming. The Great Tribulations is the climax of it all. 4/5 of all mankind will die during this time.

I enjoyed reading your post.

Gordon
 
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gwynedd1

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GordonSlocum said:
Where should our concern by "A star" or the following?

FAITH UNDER FIRE

Report: Muslims slaughter 600 Christians
'Bodies of pregnant women were ripped open and . . . burned'

Posted: May 15, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern


© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com
Muslims have slaughtered an estimated 600 Christians this week in Nigeria, according to the Christian Association of Nigeria.

Islamic Nations Slaughter, Enslave Christians
December 16, 2001
by Tom Barrett Editor Conservative Truth
THERE IS NOT ONE CHRISTIAN NATION ON EARTH WHERE MUSLIMS ARE PERSECUTED. Yet in 83% of nations where the majority of the population are Muslims, there is systematic government persecution of Christians. (See "Religious Freedom in the Majority Islamic Countries" in the Resources section below.) This persecution includes imposing the death penalty for sharing the Christian faith with a Muslim; national laws prohibiting conversion from Islam to Christianity; destruction of churches; and murder or expulsion of Christian missionaries. Even in the few predominantly Muslim countries where the government does not openly participate in the persecution, it ignores and even encourages illegal persecution by Muslims against Christians.

Islamic Nations Slaughter and Enslave Christians
By Tom Barrett (07/10/2005)

THERE IS NOT ONE CHRISTIAN NATION ON EARTH WHERE MUSLIMS ARE PERSECUTED. Yet in 83% of nations where the majority of the population are Muslims, there is systematic government persecution of Christians. (See "Religious Freedom in the Majority Islamic Countries" in the Resources section below.) This persecution includes imposing the death penalty for sharing the Christian faith with a Muslim; national laws prohibiting conversion from Islam to Christianity; destruction of churches; and murder or expulsion of Christian missionaries. Even in the few predominantly Muslim countries where the government does not openly participate in the persecution, it ignores and even encourages illegal persecution by Muslims against Christians.





Nigerian Muslims Slaughter Christians, Torch 11 Churches
Reuters reports that some of the deaths even occurred inside the churches!!

"They went on the rampage, burning shops and churches of the Christians. The protesters killed the others. Some were even killed in the churches," said Joseph Hayab, north-west secretary of the Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN).




If perhaps, Christians would not be rebellious against God and become peacemakers judgemnet would not come to Christians.
A Muslim community leader in the Nigerian town of Yelwa said yesterday that 630 bodies had been buried there after an attack by Christian militia on Sunday. The previous estimate of the death toll was 300.
The best way to kill Chritians is to invite reactionary violence. Romans 12 19: Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20: Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21: Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1211215,00.html If you cannot do this then the World will have you and draft you into its armies. The World loves its own.
 
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gwynedd1

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GordonSlocum said:
It is interesting to say the least.

Would you not agree that from an ethic perspective Jew or Gentile (that includes a bunch of different peoples) that of each group some are found on this side and that side.

In a nut shell, All of the world will be against the land of Israel. All governments will be at war against Israel. They will be against all that God is doing and going to do. The climax is the Second coming. The Great Tribulations is the climax of it all. 4/5 of all mankind will die during this time.

I enjoyed reading your post.

Gordon
Yes I quite agree. I am not certain our role, if it can be delayed. Our role to to bear witness and call for peace. Perhaps it can be delayed, if not I will bear winess to the truth. What will occur in the conflict will not be of God in anyway. Let the World exact its wrath on you but I am trying to alert Christians that they should not invite God's wrath.All will come under judgement. I respond to as I do to you because I once thought Islam was the worst of it as you have stated. In many ways, I am not suprised but I have since discovered that Satan works better from internal corruption and deceit. Satan, the great imitator of God would certainly want to rule from Zion and claim Israel as its people. Jews have been deceived by their blind guides.
Your heart is there Gordon. It is good to warn of Islam but for edification and to call for peace. There is much more to Satan's kingdom than most understand and it is over the entire earth as we speak. God Bless
 
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ContraMundum

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Treppers said:
Lebanese civilian deaths: 1,005
Hizbullah deaths: 98 killed (IDF claim 400)


Israeli military deaths: 63
Israeli civilian deaths: 35



Some trivial maths reaveals the following:

Hezbollah have achieved a military 'hit' 62% of the time

Israeli has achieved a military 'hit' 9% of the time (or 28% of the time if you believe the IDF)

The ratio of Lebanese civilian deaths to Israeli is getting on for 30:1.


Worth nothing is that Israel uses precision-guided bombs rather than unguided Katyushas. That being the case, I think the above stats tells us something about the contempt the Israeli military has for Lebanese civilians. All I can say is that I wish that Israel would switch to using Katyushas, that way they'll kill less civilians.

This is silly- one side has a good civil defense system, the other doesn't.

The only reason Hezbollah has hit more military targets is because the IDF place themselves in harm's way- while Israeli civilians are in quality bomb shelters.

Israel drops leaflets before attacking- Hezbollah do not.

Here's a little picture for you.
 

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gwynedd1

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ContraMundum said:
This is silly- one side has a good civil defense system, the other doesn't.

The only reason Hezbollah has hit more military targets is because the IDF place themselves in harm's way- while Israeli civilians are in quality bomb shelters.

Israel drops leaflets before attacking- Hezbollah do not.

Here's a little picture for you.
Zech 4 5: Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 6: Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. Judges 7 2: And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people that are with thee are too many for me to give the Midianites into their hands, lest Israel vaunt themselves against me, saying, Mine own hand hath saved me. F16 is the use of might. It is the Christian support of a Godless Israel that is the issue. It is as absurd , as you say, as the Christian support of Hezbollah. There is no difference.
 
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gwynedd1 said:
Zech 4 5: Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 6: Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. Judges 7 2: And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people that are with thee are too many for me to give the Midianites into their hands, lest Israel vaunt themselves against me, saying, Mine own hand hath saved me.

Ever read Ps 83?


F16 is the use of might. It is the Christian support of a Godless Israel that is the issue. It is as absurd , as you say, as the Christian support of Hezbollah. There is no difference.

You can have all the military hardware in the world, but if God wants you to lose, you will. Israel surely knows that.

By the way- I believe it is by God's Spirit that Israel has not been beaten- especially considering the odds against them during the Arab-Israeli wars, let alone the evil that confronts them now.

Like I said- God has allowed Israel to exist as a nation-state, for His purpose, and according to His plan. There is simply no other explanation to accept for anyone who believes in a sovereign God.
 
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