Icons and the last few years on CF

[Gxg (G²)]

We have "face the board" threads in other forums where an individual will answer any and all questions asked him

It could be created by me lets say and I have to honestly answer all the group's questions
Good way to find out why some one believes as they do

Could this be extended into questions asked on various other topics NOT pertaining to anything theologically based?

Part of me was really considering something that got mentioned years ago when it comes to interaction on a Fellowship basis - and that was in regards to something Messianic Mommy and I talked on a couple of times as it concerns having conversations on a book club thread (as well as other things like a Sports club, etc.) and seeing what all of us are like when debates are not in view. I've noticed some of those threads which have been made available on those things - like the Dance Club thread or encouragement thread, for example - are not utilized (and I know I've dropped the ball on that) - and that can be something that can make a difference.

For the same people that may argue against one another, if together in person, would possibly end up sitting down watching Disney movies like "Beauty and the Beast" or "Tangled" or action films from the 90s like "True Lies" and "Eraser" or musicals like "Fiddler on the Roof"/"West Side Story" and "The Sound of Music" when they have the chance...

If a book club got started, I think it'd be cool to engage in...but I think it should be open to others who are supportative of MJism (or at least not trying to do as many in GT do and go to war against it). Although I'm not against others that are Non-Messianic joining in since it doesn't seem right to be exclusive/only interact with MJish folks on everyday life issues, I do think it'd make a difference knowing that interaction wouldn't allow for things to be said or done against the SOP...and thus, those outside of MJism would need to keep that in mind

I recall where you once noted (from #806 ) that on staff ya'll used to Skype or text as a group while watching movies/football games - and thought it was fun. It'd be nice to see if such would be possible here as well on the forums


But ultimately, The end goal should always be promoting the Body of Christ - all of it within the spirit that others have been seeking to achieve here when it comes to unity amongst brothers/sisters:

Ephesians 4

Unity in the Body of Christ

1 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
​

__________________

​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Good summary. Arnold and I were in seminary together. He was finishing as I was entering. Solid guy.

Had no idea - but that's good to know. Indeed, I do think he's a very solid individual overall and one whom I have been thankful for when it comes to the Messianic world and growing in love for God's Torah.

He has spoken at conferences for my fellowship before - and although we don't agree with all stances he has, we do appreciate the work done by him for the Jewish people. I have noticed, over the past couple of weeks, that he has been blasted a lot by others feeling he doesn't support God's Torah/Law - and that's unfortunate due to the actual facts about who He is. I am glad that some of the attacks against Dr. Arnold have been addressed before (even though it always seems intriguing when others seem prone to try slipping in the claim "Arnold said the 613 are of no importance and believes that disciples are LAWLESS!!!" - unfortunately based on one quote of his (out of context) from an earlier work he made prior to his involvement in the Messianic community, for that is not enough to cover the entirety of all of his thoughts .....and what he said directly in comprehensive sequence.

Much of the accusations were already tackled in #44 /#66/#68 / #71 - as the good Doctor noted how Laws are in CONNECTION/COVENANT - with aspects from the Mosaic Law included in the New Law/Torah we have been given to obey in the time we live in rather than us...II Corinthians 3-4 noting that directly in the context of how we see the expansion (as well as limitations) of the Mosaic Law - for it was never Solely limited to the 613 of the Mosaic Law (just as the Mosaic Law included aspects from the Abrahamic Law and the Adamic Law before it) - all noted in his PDF on the issue of "The Law of Moses and the Law of Christ." ...and noted on his YouTube series on the issue in addition to his series entitled "The Eight Covenants of the Bible" (more here). Additionally, Dr. Arnold has never been for things within much of the Christian world like Antinomianism - and has actively spoken against it so that God's Torah is not damaged by people who don't understand or value it.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I am offering a prayer for this forum...
Lord Jesus Christ the healer of our souls and bodies please come and abide in all of us present in this forum and give us the strength the courage and the wisdom to see this through! Gather us all as your children to unity, love, compassion and protect us under your loving wings! Yes Lord we are hoping from you to bring down through Your Holy Spirit...peace, wisdom, joy, charity. Instill in us a peaceful and loving heart and teach us to do Your will always and for ever to the ages of ages Amen!

In 100% agreement with your prayer

 

[Yahudim]

Think about what, Tish? We can read the writing on the wall. And it isn't Torah. It's Juster, Fruchtenbaum, Leman, etc. Enjoy the balanced viewpoint. Hope this works out for you.

 

[Tishri1]

In a pig's eye is this ever going to culminate in a reasonable solution to what, for less than decisive "adult" action on management's part, will continue to be a source of rancor between the two, or so, main camps?

Merely a rhetorical question.

I hope so

What I see happening each year is differing groups trying to gain control and out the other group

But the real issue is either group declaring the other illegitimate

Torah seems to be the dividing issue of this illegitimacy

One group saying one is doing to much. Only Jews should be doing. The other group saying your illegitimate if you do to little

If we take out the how much factor out of the equation we are left with doing Torah only and that seems to eliminate any ones feeling illegitimate ...ending that squabble over who is MJ

 

[Tishri1]

It truely saddens me that here we are speaking of making this forum acceptable for Torah observers and the ones who are offering the most inpute that is being well received have been practicing subterfuge on here for quite awhile. To me that's like asking a bank robber to design your security system.

Tell me more about that, I'm not sure I understand

 

[Tishri1]

Or like having an abuser put in charge of making sure that there is no abusing going on in the very environment that he has been the abuser in without any one looking in to make sure he is not abusing and no recourse to stop him even if he is caught.

Sort of feeling BETRAYED.

very confused please be more specific

 

[Tishri1]

Good summary. Arnold and I were in seminary together. He was finishing as I was entering. Solid guy.

Ahhh your kidding! Small world

 

[Tishri1]

Well this is the first time i saw this side of you

Its refreshing

Some advise would be keep your posts as supportive as you can and this place can begin to finally discover maybe that a lot we encounter might be misconstrued misunderstandings

Cool to know it connected, Tish.

Wouldn't be surprised on that (and the same as it concerns others who may disagree with most or all of it, as has happened when similar was shared before). There've been disagreements on all sides and no one will ever agree with another 100% in all issues. Ultimately, as a forum is not one's house they live in, there's an aspect of knowing that everyone is going to have to collectively compromise/allow for give and take.

It's like an apartment complex and having differing families all present/in their own respective territories - hanging with the people they wish in the complex while being wise in not seeking out others they tend to be like oil/water with - and yet all knowing one apartment cannot simply say "I don't like you - even though we both pay bills/want to take care of our families - so I want you out!!!!" and then assume all tenants have to value the same as them in order for life to happen. All agreed to come together in one area, with some basic things connecting them, but room was given for them to be who they were in order for health to be present. And as much as one may not like what another does, the same sentiments are done to them from the other side.......meaning all are going to have to get along in order get along.




Thanks for noting that. ...and yes, it's how I've always felt honestly. It's why I took it seriously when others like sevengreenbeans or Messianic Samaritan got blasted for being who they were even though they were Messianic - and it's why I didn't take kindly to others (in the name of UMJC or what they felt to be appropriate Messianic Judaism) attacking folks who were Two-House Messianics (like pat4lee and others) or associated with One Law since many got along even with differences - And the same goes for other Messianics who got blasted by people burned by churches simply because those Messianics worked in/supported Churches - yet were told they didn't "belong" as much as the others trying to enforce their ideology on others.

Truthfully, on the post you quoted, I've said the same thing openly for years in thought/sentiments when seeing others being pushed out/hassled simply for disagreeing with an application of a concept ( #21 ) - and I have long agreed with others who've said the same (as can be easily documented) - and there are times it gets discouraging feeling like what you say is either misunderstood ...or not even addressed. For me, it never seemed healthy or productive with all the turf wars going on between camps - and often, what people really want is freedom to be who they are where they are in the Messianic world. When that has been accepted, good discussion and fellowship occurs.....

Live and Let Live is what seems to be the best option when trying to have multiple groups together in one room - all of them equally passionate. Other forums/places have had to do the same thing and they learned to live together. It can be hard to do, however, when it feels you try to keep your distance/stick to your own sub-culture within a larger culture....only to run into more battles with all seeking to conform others to look like them. ..you naturally get into combat mode/seek to wage war in removing the other side out of the equation. It's unfortunate, but it happens - and everyone who feels like an underdog at some point will be prone to bite back unless others know they can feel safe in being allowed to be who they are - and acknowledged as trying to be as honorable as possible to what's asked by those in charge.

 

[Tishri1]

Onhhh you just reminded me i need to post the dance im teaching at the umjc here in our dance thread.....I forget its there too

Could this be extended into questions asked on various other topics NOT pertaining to anything theologically based?

Part of me was really considering something that got mentioned years ago when it comes to interaction on a Fellowship basis - and that was in regards to something Messianic Mommy and I talked on a couple of times as it concerns having conversations on a book club thread (as well as other things like a Sports club, etc.) and seeing what all of us are like when debates are not in view. I've noticed some of those threads which have been made available on those things - like the Dance Club thread or encouragement thread, for example - are not utilized (and I know I've dropped the ball on that) - and that can be something that can make a difference.

For the same people that may argue against one another, if together in person, would possibly end up sitting down watching Disney movies like "Beauty and the Beast" or "Tangled" or action films from the 90s like "True Lies" and "Eraser" or musicals like "Fiddler on the Roof"/"West Side Story" and "The Sound of Music" when they have the chance...

If a book club got started, I think it'd be cool to engage in...but I think it should be open to others who are supportative of MJism (or at least not trying to do as many in GT do and go to war against it). Although I'm not against others that are Non-Messianic joining in since it doesn't seem right to be exclusive/only interact with MJish folks on everyday life issues, I do think it'd make a difference knowing that interaction wouldn't allow for things to be said or done against the SOP...and thus, those outside of MJism would need to keep that in mind

I recall where you once noted (from #806 ) that on staff ya'll used to Skype or text as a group while watching movies/football games - and thought it was fun. It'd be nice to see if such would be possible here as well on the forums


But ultimately, The end goal should always be promoting the Body of Christ - all of it within the spirit that others have been seeking to achieve here when it comes to unity amongst brothers/sisters:

​

 

[Tishri1]

Think about what, Tish? We can read the writing on the wall. And it isn't Torah. It's Juster, Fruchtenbaum, Leman, etc. Enjoy the balanced viewpoint. Hope this works out for you.

I dont know what you mean by that?

 

[yedida]

Tell me more about that, I'm not sure I understand

Ain't that the truth?

And it sounds frighteningly like the old horrid "compromise" that drew the Church under to begin with. Compromises to get them in, compromises to get them to stay, compromises, compromises...

To be all inclusive many will be asked to compromise and level down, to the disobedient, they are being asked to co.mpromise up in dishonesty (when you think about it, both sides will have to okay it with themselves to be less honest than they'd like to be for this all-inclusive forum the mods are wanting). I doubt I'll stick around for long if it truly comes to what I foresee (of course, I could be wrong, I hope I'm wrong....).

 

[Chaplain David]

Hi Everyone,

We've (staff and members) identified some things that need to be emphasized to reinforce the MJ forum. One of these is keeping a closer watch on non members coming in to debate and discuss when according to the SOP they're only allowed to post in fellowship and ask questions. This is important and I think a very sore spot for MJers and rightfully so.

However, there's no reason why the members of various camps cannot co-exist on the MJ forum. The love of G-d, Jesus Christ and Torah are things that every camp have in common.

However fighting with each other is non productive and not necessary. It is extremely destructive and divisive. That energy needs to be redirected into what is good for each other and what is good for the forum. Fighting with each other is a decision. Making the decision to not fight with each other is a better one.

Faithfully,

 

[anisavta]

Every morning I find that this thread is still plugging along. As with last year, it gets to a point where all that needs to be said, has been said. Now it just serves as a soapbox for disgruntled posters to kvetch.
We've had some good ideas shared and possible glitch fixes so now perhaps it's time (once again) to stop cutting bait and let's fish. Put in place the changes and see how it works.

 

[drstevej]

Ahhh your kidding! Small world

I was also there with Barry Levanthal another great guy.

Barry R. Leventhal, Ph.D. | Biblical Writings, Reflections, and Wisdom

Dallas Seminary attracted messianics I think because their dispensationalism stiil sees a future fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant with ethnic Israel.

My pastor, Jack Meadows, in El Paso was a messianic who was also a Dallas Seminary graduate.

 

[Tishri1]

And it sounds frighteningly like the old horrid "compromise" that drew the Church under to begin with. Compromises to get them in, compromises to get them to stay, compromises, compromises...

soo lemme see if I hear you correctly

Its Not good enough to be Torah Tradition and Yeshua positive you must define it further .....to what?

Ain't that the truth?

And it sounds frighteningly like the old horrid "compromise" that drew the Church under to begin with. Compromises to get them in, compromises to get them to stay, compromises, compromises...

To be all inclusive many will be asked to compromise and level down, to the disobedient, they are being asked to co.mpromise up in dishonesty (when you think about it, both sides will have to okay it with themselves to be less honest than they'd like to be for this all-inclusive forum the mods are wanting). I doubt I'll stick around for long if it truly comes to what I foresee (of course, I could be wrong, I hope I'm wrong....).

 

[Tishri1]

Every morning I find that this thread is still plugging along. As with last year, it gets to a point where all that needs to be said, has been said. Now it just serves as a soapbox for disgruntled posters to kvetch.
We've had some good ideas shared and possible glitch fixes so now perhaps it's time (once again) to stop cutting bait and let's fish. Put in place the changes and see how it works.

Thank you

I would love to finalize this as well

 

[mishkan]

I'm sorry, but just because some one says "Yeshua" instead of Jesus, and maybe doing church on Saturday does not make one a Messianic!

It may be a start, but that person is not yet following Messianic Judaism.

Oh, that is just sooooo good! It bears repeating about 15,000 times.

And that's what this forum is Messianic JUDIASM, not Messianic Christianity.

Omein!

I think you need to start taking the mic on Wednesday nights.

 

[dnc101]

Hi Everyone,

Hi!

Been following but not comenting, however ... ah, ya'll knew I couldn't be quiet forever!

We've (staff and members) identified some things that need to be emphasized to reinforce the MJ forum. One of these is keeping a closer watch on non members coming in to debate and discuss when according to the SOP they're only allowed to post in fellowship and ask questions. This is important and I think a very sore spot for MJers and rightfully so.

I very much agree. Thanks.

However, there's no reason why the members of various camps cannot co-exist on the MJ forum. The love of G-d, Jesus Christ and Torah are things that every camp have in common.

However fighting with each other is non productive and not necessary. It is extremely destructive and divisive. That energy needs to be redirected into what is good for each other and what is good for the forum. Fighting with each other is a decision. Making the decision to not fight with each other is a better one.

And here's the rub: no one fights like someone fighting for something they love. Doubly true of an opinion, 3x if it is a religious opinion.

Furthermore, when someone posts an opinion you find violates your core beliefs, you just must post in disagreement or allow it to stand as truth! Mixing groups whose core values and beliefs are diametrically opposed (to be TO, or not to be TO, that'll be the question)- well, you've got your work cut out for you. One group will become the dominant group, running off the members of the other group. If recent events are any indicator, you'll see a lot of folks on the mainC forums switch icons until their favored side emerges victorious and the TO folks have gone.

But it's your decision, and I don't envy you in making it. I'll obviously abide by it, and I'll stay on as long as I can glean anything from the discussions here. And I really hope the two sides can co-exist. Perhaps you could add icons for the non TO folks and put up some thread restrictions like, say allowing the OP to identify the thread as one which, for the purposes of discussion only, assumes that TO is the correct view (obviously they could do the same) and then strictly enforce any encroachment on that thread.

Your call, though. Should be interesting!

Dan (not really main) C

 

[ananda]

When did "Torah Observant" become "Torah Positive"? One can be positive about Torah without being observant (to whatever degree).

Sorry for adding to the argument ...