Ice Core Chronology

[RickG]

Actually for GAP and OEC the ice core chronology works out very well with what they believe. Again Science proves the Bible is true. This only seems to be a problem for some YEC people.

Sometime when you have time, I would like to know what "your" definitions of GAP and OEC are. When I look them up there seem to be multiple definitions or groups within groups of each. I just want to know how to respond correctly when you mention GAP and OEC. Thanks Jazer.

 

[RickG]

and it would also show how wrong he is about a young earth.

they can link up tree rings as well. if you get tree A that was planted in 1920 (by counting the rings) and tree B that was planted in 1860 and died in 1940 you can match up the last 20 years of rings of tree B with the first 20 years of tree A (because the rings are different sizes every year and can reflect changes in weather and climate etc).

Using this method they can go back about 12,000 years i believe. or about twice as old as the bible claims the earth is, lol.

they can also do something similar with coral too i think.

the funny thing is, the weather patterns and volcanic events etc that the tree rings show match perfectly with what the ice cores show.

That is quite true. The only thing I would add is that when using this overlap method they are cross correlating with trees or corals in the same local or climatic area. The comparisons have to remain not only apples and apples, but of the same species of apples.

There are many other non radiometric dating methods as well other than the dendrochronology and coral rings you mentioned. There are also an increasing number of stable isotope ratio methods being utilized as well. YECs can run from them but they can't hide.

 

[Jazer]

Sometime when you have time, I would like to know what "your" definitions of GAP and OEC are.

I am not really a student of OEC. On one post we were talking about the mammals in the ocean on the fifth day. Genesis talks about the grass and the herbs on the earth on the third day. So I see two problems right off with OEC. The days do not seem to be equal in length and there are things that are just not talked about. For example there is no talk about when God created the other non mammal fish in the ocean. Although this must have happened on the fourth day there is no mention of it. You can not have fish without first the plants we see on the third day.

As far as GAP I go very heavy on the Ice Core Samples. They show clearly that a day in Genesis is 1,000 years. Esp the Ice Core samples have a layer that they believe was caused by a nanodiamond comet hitting the earth around 12,900 years ago. You have the Halocene extinction. This marks the end of the ice age. Then as the Bible explains you have the beginning of the age we currently live in.

There is nothing wrong with YEC. Clearly Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden in the Middle east 6,000 years ago, just as the Bible says. For this I lean heavy on Darwins theory because the Garden of Eden in the Middle east was what they call a "Hot Spot" for biodiversity. Clearly not the only Hot Spot. Adam and Eve were not the ONLY Halpotype. But they were the Halpogroup that Science and the Bible associates with Farming and the herding of Animals. This all begain in the Furtile Cresent in the Middle East just as the Bible says. The Bible is a very dependable History book that is an essential companion for many branches of Science on many levels.

These are the things I have gone into much greater detail many times here on these boards. Every now and then [not often] someone comes along that is really interested in discovery and we work on it. So that I learn more about Science and the Bible. For example people have pointed out that you have cities like Jericho that go back before Adam and Eve in the Bible. Not only cities but farming actually goes back more like 9,000 years than the 6,000 years we read about. So these are all things I have to deal with and address in my theory, understanding and explaination of the Bible.

For the people that do not want to learn then the stepping stone becomes a stumbling block and it seems to be easy for them to disregard it all.

 

[RickG]

I am not really a student of OEC. On one post we were talking about the mammals in the ocean on the fifth day. Genesis talks about the grass and the herbs on the earth on the third day. So I see two problems right off with OEC. The days do not seem to be equal in length and there are things that are just not talked about. For example there is no talk about when God created the other non mammal fish in the ocean. Although this must have happened on the fourth day there is no mention of it. You can not have fish without first the plants we see on the third day.

As far as GAP I go very heavy on the Ice Core Samples. They show clearly that a day in Genesis is 1,000 years. Esp the Ice Core samples have a layer that they believe was caused by a nanodiamond comet hitting the earth around 12,900 years ago. You have the Halocene extinction. This marks the end of the ice age. Then as the Bible explains you have the beginning of the age we currently live in.

There is nothing wrong with YEC. Clearly Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden in the Middle east 6,000 years ago, just as the Bible says. For this I lean heavy on Darwins theory because the Garden of Eden in the Middle east was what they call a "Hot Spot" for biodiversity. Clearly not the only Hot Spot. Adam and Eve were not the ONLY Halpotype. But they were the Halpogroup that Science and the Bible associates with Farming and the herding of Animals. This all begain in the Furtile Cresent in the Middle East just as the Bible says. The Bible is a very dependable History book that is an essential companion for many branches of Science on many levels.

These are the things I have gone into much greater detail many times here on these boards. Every now and then [not often] someone comes along that is really interested in discovery and we work on it. So that I learn more about Science and the Bible. For example people have pointed out that you have cities like Jericho that go back before Adam and Eve in the Bible. Not only cities but farming actually goes back more like 9,000 years than the 6,000 years we read about. So these are all things I have to deal with and address in my theory, understanding and explaination of the Bible.

For the people that do not want to learn then the stepping stone becomes a stumbling block and it seems to be easy for them to disregard it all.

Thanks for the reply but I don't think I have a better understanding of those terms in relation to your thinking. The extinction event at the end of the Pleistocene and beginning of the Holocene is attributed to climate change and human influence, not any meteor; and I don't understand or even see any connection with that meteor, ice cores and Genesis. Please explain in more detail.

Concerning your description of genesis in relation to plants and animals. The plants described in genesis are land plants. The oldest fossils that appear to be of organic origin are just over 4 billion years old, while unmistakable fossils of organic origin are around 3.2 billion years old. Those fossils are are animal, not plant. The oldest land plant fossils are only around 490 million years old, flowering plants (described in genesis) are even younger.

 

[Jazer]

Thanks for the reply but I don't think I have a better understanding of those terms in relation to your thinking. The extinction event at the end of the Pleistocene and beginning of the Holocene is attributed to climate change and human influence, not any meteor; and I don't understand or even see any connection with that meteor, ice cores and Genesis. Please explain in more detail.

This is an artical that deals with the meteor: "Six North American Sites Hold 12,900-Year-Old Nanodiamond-Rich Soil" Six North American Sites Hold 12,900-year-old Nanodiamond-rich Soil

I will show you why this is a perfect fit. In Genesis ch 1 vs 2 we read: "1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." This is a very important verse for GAP.

We read about Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden 6,000 years ago. If a day in Genesis is 1000 years and God rested on the 7th day. Then Adam and Eve show up in Eden on the eighth day.

So we go back 7,000 years or 7 days and the date you get is 13,000 years ago. What does the Bible say about this first day: "earth was without form, and void; and darkness". Ok, there are ONLY two ways you can have darkness. One is a volcano and the other is a meter hitting the earth. That is the only two ways you can block the light from the Sun and have darkness. So a metor (or volcano) at this exact point in time is essential for the GAP to work. The earth has to be in a state of ruin or "without form, and void". These words "form and void" we read about later on in the Bible when Isreal was in a state of ruin. But that is a different study.

The point is the artical I shows you is an exact match with the Bible. Time and time again as Christians we are reading our news paper. Or in this case Science Daily and we see an exact match between what Science is telling us and the Bible. It does not seem to matter to non believers, they do not get excited about the Bible as believers do.

Photo: Nanometer-sized diamonds occur at the base a layer of sediment directly above the remains of extinct animals (mammoths, dire wolves, etc.) and artifacts from Clovis culture at the research site in Murray Springs, Arizona.

Concerning your description of genesis in relation to plants and animals. The plants described in genesis are land plants. The oldest fossils that appear to be of organic origin are just over 4 billion years old, while unmistakable fossils of organic origin are around 3.2 billion years old. Those fossils are are animal, not plant. The oldest land plant fossils are only around 490 million years old, flowering plants (described in genesis) are even younger.

I usually just deal with the GAP. There is no one around to try and answer questions for you about OEC? I don't know that much about it but I suppose I could do some research on it. I do not know how that would help you though.

 

[RickG]

This is an artical that deals with the meteor: "Six North American Sites Hold 12,900-Year-Old Nanodiamond-Rich Soil" Six North American Sites Hold 12,900-year-old Nanodiamond-rich Soil

I will show you why this is a perfect fit. In Genesis ch 1 vs 2 we read: "1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." This is a very important verse for GAP.

We read about Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden 6,000 years ago. If a day in Genesis is 1000 years and God rested on the 7th day. Then Adam and Eve show up in Eden on the eighth day.

So we go back 7,000 years or 7 days and the date you get is 13,000 years ago. What does the Bible say about this first day: "earth was without form, and void; and darkness". Ok, there are ONLY two ways you can have darkness. One is a volcano and the other is a meter hitting the earth. That is the only two ways you can block the light from the Sun and have darkness. So a metor (or volcano) at this exact point in time is essential for the GAP to work. The earth has to be in a state of ruin or "without form, and void". These words "form and void" we read about later on in the Bible when Isreal was in a state of ruin. But that is a different study.

The point is the artical I shows you is an exact match with the Bible. Time and time again as Christians we are reading our news paper. Or in this case Science Daily and we see an exact match between what Science is telling us and the Bible. It does not seem to matter to non believers, they do not get excited about the Bible as believers do.

Photo: Nanometer-sized diamonds occur at the base a layer of sediment directly above the remains of extinct animals (mammoths, dire wolves, etc.) and artifacts from Clovis culture at the research site in Murray Springs, Arizona.

I usually just deal with the GAP. There is no one around to try and answer questions for you about OEC? I don't know that much about it but I suppose I could do some research on it. I do not know how that would help you though.

I still don't see how you connect that event with genesis. The earth had plenty of form and history 12,900 years ago. How old do you think the earth is?

As for the that impact causing the Younger Dryas, that is quite questionable. Yes it did occur around that time, but there are no sufficient impacts to support climate change though it is not entirely impossible it were on a tipping point. But all indications suggest the opposite. The prevailing hypothesis for the initiation of the Y/D is still a break-down of the north Atlantic conveyor.

Pinter, N.; Scott, A. C.; Daulton, T. L.; Podoll, A.; Koeberl, C.; Anderson, R. S.; Ishman, S. E. (2011). "The Younger Dryas impact hypothesis: A requiem". Earth-Science Reviews 106 (3–4): 247.

As for the Mammoth extinction and the claim that there are no Mammoths after the Y/D is completely erroneous. Some remains have been dated as late as 1650 B.C., that's even after Noah's flood.

Kh. A. Arslanov, G. T. Cook, Steinar Gulliksen, D.D. Harkness, Touvi Kankainen, E. M. Scott, Sergey Vartanyan, and Ganna I. Zaitseva, S. L. Vartanyan, “Consensus Dating of Remains from Wrangel Island”, Radiocarbon, Volume 40, Number 1, (Tucson: Radiocarbon, 1998), 289-294.

Sergei L. Vartanyan, Alexei N. Tikhonov, and Lyobov A. Orlova, “The Dynamic of Mammoth Distribution in the Last Refugia in Beringia”, Second World of Elephants Congress, (Hot Springs: Mammoth Site, 2005), 195.

Vartanyan, S.L.; Kh. A. Arslanov; T. V. Tertychnaya; S. B. Chernov (1995). "Radiocarbon Dating Evidence for Mammoths on Wrangel Island, Arctic Ocean, until 2000 BC". Radiocarbon (Department of Geosciences, The University of Arizona) 37 (1): pp 1–6. Retrieved 2008-01-10.

Tikhonov, Alexei; Larry Agenbroad, Sergey Vartanyan (2003). "Comparative analysis of the mammoth populations on Wrangel Island and the Channel Islands". DEINSEA 9: 415-420.

 

[Jazer]

Yes it did occur around that time, but there are no sufficient impacts to support climate change though it is not entirely impossible it were on a tipping point.

The nanodiamond impact is a marker. Science believes the climate change actually began around 6,000 years before that point in time. The April 13 2029 Apophis comet is also a marker to mark 2,000 years from when Jesus died on the cross. WE can then use this date to know 50 days later on Pentacost is the 2000 year aniversery of the church. Again a day is 1000 years. Exactly 7 (orbits) years later on Resurrestion Sunday there is a chance Apophis will hit the earth. The Bible says people will be very concerned about this at the time. But again it is just a marker, to mark a point in time.

All of these events I use to show that a day in Genesis is 1000 years. If I have not given you enough to show that one day is 1000 years then I do not think anything I show you will make any difference.

As for the Mammoth extinction and the claim that there are no Mammoths after the Y/D is completely erroneous. Some remains have been dated as late as 1650 B.C., that's even after Noah's flood.

I was not aware of that. I had never heard that before. But like I said, Adam and Eve lived 6,000 years ago. Yet Science says that cities & farming began 9,000 years ago. Jericho being one of the oldest cities and a city that we read about in the Bible. Also Science tells us that the Adam and Eve we read about in our Bible were decended from a family line that actually began 27,300 years ago.

 

[CabVet]

The nanodiamond impact is a marker. Science believes the climate change actually began around 6,000 years before that point in time. The April 13 2029 Apophis comet is also a marker to mark 2,000 years from when Jesus died on the cross. WE can then use this date to know 50 days later on Pentacost is the 2000 year aniversery of the church. Again a day is 1000 years. Exactly 7 (orbits) years later on Resurrestion Sunday there is a chance Apophis will hit the earth. The Bible says people will be very concerned about this at the time. But again it is just a marker, to mark a point in time.

All of these events I use to show that a day in Genesis is 1000 years. If I have not given you enough to show that one day is 1000 years then I do not think anything I show you will make any difference.

I was not aware of that. I had never heard that before. But like I said, Adam and Eve lived 6,000 years ago. Yet Science says that cities & farming began 9,000 years ago. Jericho being one of the oldest cities and a city that we read about in the Bible. Also Science tells us that the Adam and Eve we read about in our Bible were decended from a family line that actually began 27,300 years ago.

Science doesn't tell us anything about Adam and Eve, don't twist it, science is not open for interpretations and cherry-picking like the Bible is. Science tells us that Haplogroup J coalesces back to a single common ancestor in the middle east around 30,000 years ago, that is all.

 

[Jazer]

Science tells us that Haplogroup J coalesces back to a single common ancestor in the middle east around 30,000 years ago, that is all.

Science confirms that everything the Bible says is true. For example the Arabs and the Hebrews share the same father (Abraham), but they have a different mother. Sarah for the Hebrews and Hagar for the Arab/Muslim Nations was an Egyptian. This DNA evidence only was discovered in the last 10 years. Yet the Bible was written 3500 years ago. So new scientific evidence comes along and confirms the Bible is true.

All it would take is for the Muslim nations NOT to have Egyptian mitochondria. But they do and that valididates the Bible. If your prediction was true, then the DNA research in the last 10 years would have easily falsified the Bible and showed it not to be true. Of course I suppose it stands to reason that people that live in the same basic geographic area are going to share common ancestors. That is more logical they to try and deny the scientific evidence and what the evidence represents.

Abraham was a Chaldean from the city of Ur. They went on to form the Babylon nation and modern Iraq today. So what really makes someone Jewish is the mother, not the father. As both the Jewish people and the Muslim people in the middle east share the same father: Abraham.

What the J Haplogroup shows is a most recent common ancestor of 6,000 years ago. The most recent of all the Haplogroups. What the J Haplogroup represents is the beginning of farming. A lot of research has been done on how farming began and how farming spread to the world. This is something science is very interested in is the transition from hunter gathers to food producer. The J Haplogroup seems to be key in this transition. Also the J Haplogroup has recorded history that goes back 3500 years. There are clay tablets that goes back further even 4500 years. There are a lot of other Haplogroups that even go back further then your 30,000 years. But they do not have any recorded history that even goes back as far as the Bible and the recorded history of the Hebrew Nation.

Right now the most popular theory is that farming began with the J Haplogroup and all the other Haplogroups learned it from them. Evolution tends to support the Bible because evolution depends upon common ancestors. Although they are still doing a study on how farming began with the J Haplogroup and how farming then spread to the other Haplogroups in the rest of the world.

 

[RickG]

The nanodiamond impact is a marker. Science believes the climate change actually began around 6,000 years before that point in time.

No science doesn't.

The April 13 2029 Apophis comet is also a marker to mark 2,000 years from when Jesus died on the cross. WE can then use this date to know 50 days later on Pentacost is the 2000 year aniversery of the church.

The year in which Jesus was born and died is only known with a several year span. Furthermore, most theologians agree that Jesus was probably born in the summer, not December. Cherry picking to fit pre-determined outcomes is not science.

Again a day is 1000 years. Exactly 7 (orbits) years later on Resurrestion Sunday there is a chance Apophis will hit the earth. The Bible says people will be very concerned about this at the time. But again it is just a marker, to mark a point in time.

Not according to NASA

All of these events I use to show that a day in Genesis is 1000 years. If I have not given you enough to show that one day is 1000 years then I do not think anything I show you will make any difference.

I have yet to see anything demonstrating that a genesis day is 1000 years and you are completely ignoring the out of sequence events in genesis 1.

[/quote]

 

[Jazer]

No science doesn't.

I am sorry, this is the last time I am going to do this.
If you look at the chart there was clearly a spike 15,000 years ago.

The year in which Jesus was born

We are going by when Jesus died. That is well known to be passover. That is the event that marks when the Hebrew/Jewish people left Egypt. On our calender we call it Easter Sunday and Good Friday. Then 50 days later 7 weeks of 7 plus a day we have Pentecostal Sunday.

"The period from Passover to Shavu'ot is a time of great anticipation. We count each of the days from the second day of Passover to the day before Shavu'ot, 49 days or 7 full weeks, hence the name of the festival. See The Counting of the Omer. The counting reminds us of the important connection between Passover and Shavu'ot: Passover freed us physically from bondage, but the giving of the Torah on Shavu'ot redeemed us spiritually from our bondage to idolatry and immorality. Shavu'ot is also known as Pentecost, because it falls on the 50th day; however, Shavu'ot has no particular similarity to the Christian holiday of Pentecost, which occurs 50 days after their Spring holiday." http://www.jewfaq.org/holidayc.htm

You are correct we do not know for sure when Jesus was born and thus when He died. That is why rather then to try and do the math myself, I just go by the date we get from NASA for the Apophis. The Bible does say that there will be signs in the Heaven to mark these events. Even more so people will be concerned about the year 2036. The idea that the sea and waves will be roaring is a suggestion that the Apophis could hit the ocean and create tidal waves like we just saw in Japan.

Luke 21:25-28 (NKJV) 25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

I have yet to see anything demonstrating that a genesis day is 1000 years

Ok, thanks for asking. If your not convinced in what I have already showed you, then there is no reason to show you any more. I guess we will just have to wait 20 years and see what happens. I am sure as the day draws near many people will jump on the band wagon to try and write books and make money off of the event.

The good news is mankind will go on for another 1000 years. The bad news is that there will most likely be a war between now and then. The infrastructure could take a hard hit and that is why I recommend to people to try and be independant and get off of the power grid between now and then. Of course the Mormons have been saying this for over 100 years, so there is nothing new about any of this. Even Michael Jackson has his thriller video which is what some people believe the world would look like if we had a nuclear war and the living dead were out looking for food and trying to survive. This is a VERY popular theme in the moves for the last 50 years. Ever sense science came up with the nuclear bomb and the chance of a nuclear holocaust.

I did live in Salt Lake City Utah for a while. So I may have been influenced by their teaching on this.

 

[RickG]

I am sorry, this is the last time I am going to do this.
If you look at the chart there was clearly a spike 15,000 years ago.

It's a spike, not the end of the last ice age. You can't ignore the Younger/Dryas event. Take a look at the bigger picture. Had the Y/D event not happened you would be correct, but it happened and the Wisconsin stage of the Laurentide ice sheet did not end until 9,500 to 10,000 years ago.

 

[Jazer]

the Laurentide ice sheet did not end until 9,500 to 10,000 years ago.

Then that would line up with the third day in Genesis. When the dry land began to appear. The first day would have been 12,000 years ago. The second day 11,000 years ago and then the third day 10,000 years ago. I see a match between science and the Bible. If you do not see it, then I guess there is nothing I can do to convince you or show you what I am able to see. Thanks for asking though.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. [/FONT]

 

[CabVet]

What the J Haplogroup shows is a most recent common ancestor of 6,000 years ago.

This is simply NOT TRUE. Can't you even look at the graph you are yourself linking? Haplogroup J most recent common ancestor is at least 30,000 years ago, not 6,000.

 

[Jazer]

This is simply NOT TRUE. Can't you even look at the graph you are yourself linking? Haplogroup J most recent common ancestor is at least 30,000 years ago, not 6,000.

We are looking at the M304 mutation associated with the spread of Agriculture at the beginning of the Neolithic revolution. Follow this and it will lead you to Adam in the Garden of Eden 6,000 years ago. Although you are welcome to present any evidence you have that would falsify that statement.

M304: The Spread of Agriculture
Fast Facts Time of Emergence:15,000 to 10,000 years ago
http://iamurri.com/IAMURRI%20GENETIC%20SEQUENCE.htm

 

[CabVet]

We are looking at the M304 mutation associated with the spread of Agriculture at the beginning of the Neolithic revolution. Follow this and it will lead you to Adam in the Garden of Eden 6,000 years ago. Although you are welcome to present any evidence you have that would falsify that statement.

M304: The Spread of Agriculture
Fast Facts Time of Emergence:15,000 to 10,000 years ago
http://iamurri.com/IAMURRI GENETIC SEQUENCE.htm

Unbelievable, in the very same post you manage to change the subject (now instead of the most common ancestor we are talking about the origin of a single mutation), and provide evidence contradicting your own statement. Sorry, but 6,000 is not between 10,000 and 15,000.

 

[Jazer]

Unbelievable

It may seem unbelieveable for you, but the evidence does indicate that Adam and Eve were real historical people that lived in Eden 6,000 years ago.

 

[RickG]

We are looking at the M304 mutation associated with the spread of Agriculture at the beginning of the Neolithic revolution. Follow this and it will lead you to Adam in the Garden of Eden 6,000 years ago. Although you are welcome to present any evidence you have that would falsify that statement.

M304: The Spread of Agriculture
Fast Facts Time of Emergence:15,000 to 10,000 years ago
http://iamurri.com/IAMURRI GENETIC SEQUENCE.htm

That's it! Pick something that fits, then ignore all the other evidence that invalidates your cherry pick.

 

[RickG]

Then that would line up with the third day in Genesis. When the dry land began to appear. The first day would have been 12,000 years ago. The second day 11,000 years ago and then the third day 10,000 years ago. I see a match between science and the Bible. If you do not see it, then I guess there is nothing I can do to convince you or show you what I am able to see. Thanks for asking though.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. [/FONT]

Again, ignoring that everything you listed in genesis 1:9 - 1:13 occurred well before 12,000 years ago. You are also ignoring the obvious, an evening and a morning. That is clearly one literal 24 hr. day.

 

[Jazer]

Again, ignoring that everything you listed in genesis 1:9 - 1:13 occurred well before 12,000 years ago. You are also ignoring the obvious, an evening and a morning. That is clearly one literal 24 hr. day.

I am not ignoring that at all. I believe in OEC, YEC & GAP. God is able to do that. He can explain more then one dimension at the same time. A day in Genesis could be a literal 24 hour day and a day in Genesis could be millions or billions of years all at the same time. The passage simply has more then one meaning. Have you ever heard of the M-theory? Just as there can be as many universes as you want, perhaps Genesis has more then one meaning.