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Ibrahim stoned the Devil?

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Beckyy25

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I know that this is not true according to the Bible, but I'd like to know the Muslim perspective. I read many books about Islam, books from "reliable" sources ;) (which means they were written by Muslims), but there are still things I hear or read which I've not heard about yet, like this one about Abraham. In fact I read that in a forum lately, and I said maybe the Muslims here would tell me more about that.
 
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peaceful soul

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The fact that even critical analysis of biblical stories showed no evidence (if Abraham existed as portrayed at all) that he had travelled so far south.

According to the Bible, there is no way to place events in Medina or Mecca or any other place that far south of the land or Israel. The theme of most of the OT centers around the Israelites and their neighbors. Abraham was said to have been in the city or Ur before God sent him to Canaan, which was part of the Babylonian Empire. The last time that I checked, the Babylonian Empire did not reach that far south. Factor in the vast distance from the former land of Canaan. It doesn't add up. Add to that the fact that if Abraham helped to rebuild the Kaaba, then why don't we find this information in Jewish history? You would think that if this was a house of worship for Abraham, they would definitely have some ties to it. Also, one would think that the Jews in Arabia would have been recorded as taking some kind of claim in the Kabaa, but all you see is the pagans and Muslims battling over it in Mohammad's days. Shouldn't that sound off an alarm for Muslims.
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Add to that the fact that if Abraham helped to rebuild the Kaaba, then why don't we find this information in Jewish history?

No, Jews deliberately removed those parts of history from their records...

Shouldn't that sound off an alarm for Muslims.

Quote on quote: Death to Jews, death to Israel, death to America, allahu akbar ... :doh: You think they will wake up anytime soon? I doubt it.
 
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peaceful soul

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Originally posted by Bushmaster78FS

No, Jews deliberately removed those parts of history from their records...
Yep, they did all of this to despise Ishmael.:D Or they did it because they knew that Mohammad was foretold in their scriptures.;) Either way, they have their bases covered.LOL! One wonders, why is the enmity only in one direction? Why couldn't Mohammd did the same with the Qu'ran. Muslims can't seem to think that deeply about what they imply from their theories. Everything seems to favor them and their POVs.

Quote on quote: Death to Jews, death to Israel, death to America, allahu akbar ... :doh: You think they will wake up anytime soon? I doubt it.
Well, we know what spirit rules their minds-at least for the ones that are heavily trenched in this madness. Their thoughts are purely religious with little or no regard to reality or rationality. It is Allah's cause at all costs while not considering that they are wrong. They lack a mechanism in their brains that triggers humility. Morality becomes that which they believe rather than that which can be understood outside of their mindset. They have no peripheral vision of who Allah is. Allah is as they make him, which the Qu'ran openly allows for unless Muslims can definitively prove that Mohammad was instructed by Allah to execute certain commands in a temporary and limited time frame. That is my 2¢.
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Or they did it because they knew that Mohammad was foretold in their scriptures.

Oh yea, just like us Christians, despite seeing and knowing the infamous AHMAD in our own Scriptures, we somehow didn't want to seek him, rushing to Arabia at the time. :D

Muslims can't seem to think that deeply about what they imply from their theories.

They never do and never will. If that was the case, the lies of Christianity and Judaism would have been exposed already...

Everything seems to favor them and their POVs.

It is the perfect application of Christ's words ... Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
 
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anatolian

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Even if Bible doesn't mention Abraham's journey to Mecca, what makes you think something which isn't written in Bible is not real/posible? Does Bible mention everything what all of the prophets did?

by the way, Mecca is not so far when you consider he travaled from Haran to Egypt...

“Say, Do you know better or does Allaah?” Quran 2:140
 
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anatolian

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I have a question for the Muslims. Is it true that you believe Abraham (Ibrahim) stoned the Devil at the Ka'bah? I would like to know more about that, so it would be nice if anyone would tell me more about that.
Salam.I know not so much about it's details but according to the Hadiths one day when Abraham was practasing his pilgrimage in Mecca, Satan appeared to him and tried to tempt him but he did throw stones at him.Muslims imitate Ibrahim aleyhissalam during Hajj and throw stones at Jamrah of Aqaba the place where Shaitan appeared to Ibrahim.

"Peace be on Ibrahim" Quran 37:109
 
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Beckyy25

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Salam.I know not so much about it's details but according to the Hadiths one day when Abraham was practasing his pilgrimage in Mecca, Satan appeared to him and tried to tempt him but he did throw stones at him.Muslims imitate Ibrahim aleyhissalam during Hajj and throw stones at Jamrah of Aqaba the place where Shaitan appeared to Ibrahim.

"Peace be on Ibrahim" Quran 37:109

Thank you for the answer. Now that I read this, I remembered that I have read once that Muslims throw stones during Hajj, but it seems I forgot why they are doing that.

I have one more question: does also the Qur'an mention this throwing of stones or only the Sunnah?
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Even if Bible doesn't mention Abraham's journey to Mecca, what makes you think something which isn't written in Bible is not real/posible? Does Bible mention everything what all of the prophets did?

by the way, Mecca is not so far when you consider he travaled from Haran to Egypt...

“Say, Do you know better or does Allaah?” Quran 2:140

No the Bible does not record everything of course, gospel even records "And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name."

You, by your admission, say that Abraham was there to practice one of the CORE pillars of Islam there, in a timeframe that predates Islam. It is not without great suspicion that this escapes the Jewish practice, history and tradition, it doesn't ADD UP!
 
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Islam_mulia

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You, by your admission, say that Abraham was there to practice one of the CORE pillars of Islam there, in a timeframe that predates Islam. It is not without great suspicion that this escapes the Jewish practice, history and tradition, it doesn't ADD UP!
Interesting. What 'Jewish' practice that were instituted by the Patriach and other early prophets could not have been in the Islamic tradition or have any resemblance to the prayer of One God... not three-in-one?
 
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peaceful soul

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originally posted by anatolian

Even if Bible doesn't mention Abraham's journey to Mecca, what makes you think something which isn't written in Bible is not real/posible?
I can agree with your statement to a certain point as long as you don't try to make it fact, which would aid your argument for Islam. If there weren't already Christian history that makes this claim very difficult to have been done, given the time and location of Biblical events, perhaps your reasoning could be more acceptable. When reasoning, we must not forget what is known about what we debate. We can't just leave out the Biblical accounts and go straight to you possibility. We must take all things into consideration.

Does Bible mention everything what all of the prophets did?
No, but that doesn't give you a license to invent things or to impose things on the text that are not there. Again, we can derive from the Bible certain improbabilities; so, the answer is NO. You are starting down a slippery slope if you want to use this reasoning. I can make a claim that Jesus prayed towards Mecca since it isn't in the Bible, but that would not be likely since there is no context in the Bible to make us believe that this was indeed true. Using your reasoning, we could make up make myths and tales of Jesus, which would distort what we do know about him.

by the way, Mecca is not so far when you consider he travaled from Haran to Egypt...
Haran is in the region of ancient Mesopotamia and is north east of Israel. So, it would not make sense to travel southwest to Canaan and then go further south to Mecca. Abraham traveled from Ur (northeast of Haran) to Haran and then to Canaan, where God told him to settle. This became his home permanently. That is because Canaan included what became ancient Israel. Abraham went to Egypt, which is just adjacent to ancient Israel to avoid a drought. That is not that far in relation to Canaan. The Biblical geography doesn't allow for a trip to Mecca or Medina. You are comparing mileage but you are not considering geography. Canaan was part of the Babylonian empire, which is not near Mecca or Medina. There is no Jewish connection with this part of the world other than God's judgment. There are not roots of ancient Israel tied to Mecca or Medina. The areas of upper Egypt and Canaan are the two primary spots that we can see the movement of the Israelites in Biblical history.

“Say, Do you know better or does Allaah?”
Quran 2:140
That is an open ended phrase just like "God can do anything". It is very easy to abuse.
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Interesting. What 'Jewish' practice that were instituted by the Patriach and other early prophets could not have been in the Islamic tradition or have any resemblance to the prayer of One God... not three-in-one?

First, there is no where you can find the Christian doctrine calling upon a "three-in-one" God, that was a quickly shotdown heretical attempt. Second, your mockery of this fact doesn't earn you any points other than tainting your credibility even further. Third, this is not a patriarchial issue, I don't know what Jewish practice could NOT have been there, you are the one making the claim, show me what islamic practice as taught by Muhammad, could have been practiced and documented in an era that predated Islam!!!
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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That is an open ended phrase just like "God can do anything". It is very easy to abuse.

Such as Allah can know better than the muslim that He can have a Son and that He is Jesus Christ.
 
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anatolian

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Thank you for the answer. Now that I read this, I remembered that I have read once that Muslims throw stones during Hajj, but it seems I forgot why they are doing that.

I have one more question: does also the Qur'an mention this throwing of stones or only the Sunnah?
I don't know but I couldnt find myself..
 
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anatolian

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No the Bible does not record everything of course, gospel even records "And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name."
Yes I know.

You, by your admission, say that Abraham was there to practice one of the CORE pillars of Islam there, in a timeframe that predates Islam...
Let' s think this way, Allah made it a core pillar of Islam because He first ordered it to Abraham?

You christians are decisive of muslims nowdays :) Let me make a claim about you.. One thing I've found out with christians, they approach to Islam with a reversed logic many times..If you think correctly you will not be in need of asking many things about this religion.
 
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