I would like your opinion, please (Orthodox Responses Only!)

[Light of the East]

I'm not quite sure what to think about this video inasmuch as I am still learning the Orthodox faith two years after my chrismation.

Please watch and dissect for me what is being said here.

 

[The Liturgist]

I'm not quite sure what to think about this video inasmuch as I am still learning the Orthodox faith two years after my chrismation.

Please watch and dissect for me what is being said here.

It would be easier for me to break it down if I knew what was confusing you specifically. A large number of Orthodox Christians adopt a view that is uncontroversial within Eastern Orthodoxy which he is simply stating, which is that the Orthodox Church is the Church and offers the definitive pathway to salvation. Although I would note he did not rule out the issue of deceased relatives and their salvation, but also mentioned a view which one hears a bit less, but which is certainly not unknown, and that is a criticism of the binary saved vs. not saved approach one encounters among Protestants, but one finds that even in Metropolitan Kallistos Ware’s classic lecture Salvation In Christ.

 

[Light of the East]

It would be easier for me to break it down if I knew what was confusing you specifically. A large number of Orthodox Christians adopt a view that is uncontroversial within Eastern Orthodoxy which he is simply stating, which is that the Orthodox Church is the Church and offers the definitive pathway to salvation. Although I would note he did not rule out the issue of deceased relatives and their salvation, but also mentioned a view which one hears a bit less, but which is certainly not unknown, and that is a criticism of the binary saved vs. not saved approach one encounters among Protestants, but one finds that even in Metropolitan Kallistos Ware’s classic lecture Salvation In Christ.

Perhaps I should listen again, but the sense I got from what he was saying is that there is no salvation outside of Orthodoxy.

 

[HTacianas]

Perhaps I should listen again, but the sense I got from what he was saying is that there is no salvation outside of Orthodoxy.

I only had time to watch half of the video but I think I get the gist of it. Whether there is salvation outside of Orthodoxly is entirely up to God. But that aside, his idea seems to be that Orthodox holds the truth. And he is right. The Orthodox Church has held to and taught the truth since the beginning. No new ideas, no new "interpretations" of anything, no changes to the form of worship. One could simply walk through the Nicene Creed one line at a time and find that Orthodoxy holds to each one and always has. That is Christianity. Other groups do their own thing. For instance, the Creed beings, "We believe in one God". Compare that to Mormons who believe in innumerable gods and believe that they will one day be a god. That is not "one God". That rules them out. On the nature of Christ the Creed says, "true God from true God". The Jehovah's Witnesses say that Christ is not true God from true God but is something else. That rules them out.

But also, the Creed was written and amended over time in opposition to the great heresies. Someone comes out with some idea or another and the Church would hold a Council to determine the truth based on the faith taught by the Apostles. Each line of the Creed affirms what the Apostles taught. Then there are other beliefs of Christianity that were never in dispute. Take the Eucharist for example. Christianity has always held that the Eucharist becomes the body and blood of Christ, and we consume his body and blood, as Christ said, "Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood you have no life in you". That is Christianity and that is Orthodoxy. Any other belief is something else. Now, how many beliefs can you trim away from Christianity and remain Christian? Orthodoxy holds to the fullness of the Gospel and always has, with nothing trimmed away.

 

[Lukaris]

While there are great Orthodox evangelists in this world, our collective witness needs work. I believe the presence and perseverance of Orthodox Christian faith in this world is how God helps others be saved in ways we cannot comprehend. I believe there are many people like the Syro Phonecian woman in Mark 7:24-30, Matthew 15:21-28.None of us are better or worse than the other.

Perhaps Reader Paul should distinguish further that it is hierarchical ecumenism is what will probably diminish the hope of salvation for the Orthodox Christian, other Christians & non Christians.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Perhaps I should listen again, but the sense I got from what he was saying is that there is no salvation outside of Orthodoxy.

there isn’t. however, many who were not Orthodox in this life will find that their hearts really are. so the atheist might die and realize in his last moment that God is the object of his heart’s desire, bow down, and be saved.

only God knows.

 

[Light of the East]

But that aside, his idea seems to be that Orthodox holds the truth. And he is right. The Orthodox Church has held to and taught the truth since the beginning. No new ideas, no new "interpretations" of anything, no changes to the form of worship. One could simply walk through the Nicene Creed one line at a time and find that Orthodoxy holds to each one and always has. That is Christianity.

But of course I believe that or I would not have gone through the trouble and aggravation of leaving the BCC where I was in a leadership role. Truth trumps any honors that we may hold. I just have a bit of a hard time with what I guess you might call "Traddies" on both sides of the fence who sit and throw stones at each other's salvation and relationship to God.

 

[Light of the East]

there isn’t. however, many who were not Orthodox in this life will find that there hearts really are. so the atheist might die and realize in his last moment that God is the object of his heart’s desire, bow down, and be saved.

only God knows.

Okay. And I think leaving that (salvation) with God is best. We should simply be stating that the Orthodox faith is THE TRUTH and everything else may be, to certain degrees, close -- but no cigar.

 

[HTacianas]

Okay. And I think leaving that (salvation) with God is best. We should simply be stating that the Orthodox faith is THE TRUTH and everything else may be, to certain degrees, close -- but no cigar.

Close but no cigar is my question. How close does one have to be?

 

[Light of the East]

Close but no cigar is my question. How close does one have to be?

We don't know, do we? That's why it's best to be in the Church which Christ founded upon the Apostles.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Okay. And I think leaving that (salvation) with God is best. We should simply be stating that the Orthodox faith is THE TRUTH and everything else may be, to certain degrees, close -- but no cigar.

correct

 

[ArmyMatt]

Close but no cigar is my question. How close does one have to be?

there is no “close enough.” you are either in the Body or not, and Orthodoxy is the Body. what we cannot judge is who ends up in the Body at the end. that’s for God to know and only us should He deem we need the knowledge.

 

[Light of the East]

there is no “close enough.” you are either in the Body or not, and Orthodoxy is the Body. what we cannot judge is who ends up in the Body at the end. that’s for God to know and only us should He deem we need the knowledge.

I can't speak for others, but as I examine my thoughts and motives, I find that the need-to-know displays (at least for me) a lack of trust in the goodness of God. I don't need to have all the answers and all the explanations like they do in Protestantism and Catholicism. What I need to do is humble myself, admit that I will die not knowing a lot of stuff, and trust in the Lord explicitly in every area of my life.

Here is what I do know (and all I need to know):

1. Orthodoxy is the Church. It is the Church of the Apostles which is unchanged.

2. I have been, by God's gracious kindness, led to see this and believe it.

3. I have been given a wonderful parish, good friends, a great priest, and a job to do for Him (sing in the choir)

4. God is good. Period.

Now, saying that and having it sunk real deep in my heart . . . well, I'm still working on that.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I can't speak for others, but as I examine my thoughts and motives, I find that the need-to-know displays (at least for me) a lack of trust in the goodness of God. I don't need to have all the answers and all the explanations like they do in Protestantism and Catholicism. What I need to do is humble myself, admit that I will die not knowing a lot of stuff, and trust in the Lord explicitly in every area of my life.

Here is what I do know (and all I need to know):

1. Orthodoxy is the Church. It is the Church of the Apostles which is unchanged.

2. I have been, by God's gracious kindness, led to see this and believe it.

3. I have been given a wonderful parish, good friends, a great priest, and a job to do for Him (sing in the choir)

4. God is good. Period.

Now, saying that and having it sunk real deep in my heart . . . well, I'm still working on that.

yes on all counts.

 

[Lukaris]

God states that the good will be saved and the evil will not in John 5:24-30 which is read in church during the Orthodox funeral service. God knows each individual, I do not, although I feel it is safe to know that there are good and bad among all of us. I believe when St. Paul speaks of love ( “charity” in the KJV), faith & hope ( 1 Corinthians 13:1-13)we have to do our best to see the possibility for ourselves and all who have lived & died to earthly life but actually live ( Matthew 22:31-33).

 

[prodromos]

I can't speak for others, but as I examine my thoughts and motives, I find that the need-to-know displays (at least for me) a lack of trust in the goodness of God. I don't need to have all the answers and all the explanations like they do in Protestantism and Catholicism. What I need to do is humble myself, admit that I will die not knowing a lot of stuff, and trust in the Lord explicitly in every area of my life.

Here is what I do know (and all I need to know):

1. Orthodoxy is the Church. It is the Church of the Apostles which is unchanged.

2. I have been, by God's gracious kindness, led to see this and believe it.

3. I have been given a wonderful parish, good friends, a great priest, and a job to do for Him (sing in the choir)

4. God is good. Period.

Now, saying that and having it sunk real deep in my heart . . . well, I'm still working on that.

Yep! I'm still working on getting my head and my heart in the same place. Been at it for over a decade.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yep! I'm still working on getting my head and my heart in the same place. Been at it for over a decade.

same here