"I will not speak of Thy mysteries to Thine enemies"

[OrthodoxWanderer]

My priest didn't elaborate on this during my catechumenate, so I'll confess that this particular line of the pre-Communion prayer remains a little tricky for me. I understood it to mean that we don't discuss the Eucharist with non-Orthodox, but I wonder if I'm understanding that correctly and/or if there is further meaning in the line. Is it only about the Eucharist?

More broadly, I've been questioning myself a lot lately in regards to the way I share the faith, the effects it has had on me and the changes and insights I've had along the way. I don't think I overshare out of a sense of pride or seeking attention (I'll add the obvious caveat that I may be/probably am deceived, and that we all have more pride than we can shake a stick at); but I am, by nature, an open person and forthcoming and talkative when people are engaging me in conversation, sooooo...... I think I do end up oversharing. (EDIT: I don't approach other people and start these conversations; the prompts are usually from other people. It's my responses that I'm too open with, out of enthusiasm I guess.) I suppose a lot of it, for me, is the directive by Christ to share the Word; being secretive used to feel at odds with that, but more and more I get the sense that it is appropriate to keep certain things to myself. But, lacking in discernment I don't know what mysteries are appropriate to share, and to whom, and under what circumstances, etc.

 

[gzt]

I think this is much more about "Don't tell the persecutors where the secret church service is held" than "Don't tell people the Eucharist is great and holy", while it is true that it is a little bit about the latter but not phrased quite that way. It is true that we should be somewhat guarded about the spiritual life to those not in the Church and that, like St Paul discusses in 2 Cor 12:4, there are some things you can't talk about. But I would just say this, in terms of communication: if somebody doesn't have any context for what you're saying, it'll sound like nonsense to them, or they'll try to fit it back into their own context and it'll mean something else to them. So going into too much detail about the Eucharist just doesn't communicate well about what's going on.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I'm curious about this too. *lurk*

this reminds me of The letter to Theodore by Clement of Alexandria.

“Not all true things are to be said to all men.”

 

[OrthodoxWanderer]

But I would just say this, in terms of communication: if somebody doesn't have any context for what you're saying, it'll sound like nonsense to them, or they'll try to fit it back into their own context and it'll mean something else to them.

Yes. This is why I've felt the need lately to be much quieter. Some of the people who ask me questions are from wildly different backgrounds and I'm their first Orthodox person; I used to view their curiosity into why I ended up here as a chance to share my excitement with others and hope that it would be a fire that catches. Mostly, I realize now that they hear what they hear and not necessarily what I'm saying. That is probably as much my fault as theirs. Either way, talking about it gets tricky which makes me reluctant to talk, which doesn't feel quite right either lol

If you were being grilled by someone you knew is lowkey hostile towards Christianity in any form, and Orthodoxy in particular, and would milk your responses for their own ends, how would you handle that conversation? I have a conversation with such a person coming up and I don't want to give the impression that I'm being evasive or something but I also just super do not feel like giving this person any pearls.

 

[OrthodoxWanderer]

I'm curious about this too. *lurk*

this reminds me of The letter to Theodore by Clement of Alexandria.

“Not all true things are to be said to all men.”

Thanks for mentioning that letter!

 

[gzt]

I mean, I'd keep things pretty basic - God is good and loves us and made us to know Him; we know that we're separated from God and His goodness through sin and death; God was incarnate, lived, died, and was resurrected and ascended to heaven to restore us to Him and defeat death; God works through His disciples and their successors to bring people to Him and know Him and the normal means of experiencing the grace of God is through these "sacraments" in the Church, at the hands of the successors of Jesus' disciples. And try to tie any further questions into the broad narrative there.

 

[ArmyMatt]

My priest didn't elaborate on this during my catechumenate, so I'll confess that this particular line of the pre-Communion prayer remains a little tricky for me. I understood it to mean that we don't discuss the Eucharist with non-Orthodox, but I wonder if I'm understanding that correctly and/or if there is further meaning in the line. Is it only about the Eucharist?

More broadly, I've been questioning myself a lot lately in regards to the way I share the faith, the effects it has had on me and the changes and insights I've had along the way. I don't think I overshare out of a sense of pride or seeking attention (I'll add the obvious caveat that I may be/probably am deceived, and that we all have more pride than we can shake a stick at); but I am, by nature, an open person and forthcoming and talkative when people are engaging me in conversation, sooooo...... I think I do end up oversharing. (EDIT: I don't approach other people and start these conversations; the prompts are usually from other people. It's my responses that I'm too open with, out of enthusiasm I guess.) I suppose a lot of it, for me, is the directive by Christ to share the Word; being secretive used to feel at odds with that, but more and more I get the sense that it is appropriate to keep certain things to myself. But, lacking in discernment I don't know what mysteries are appropriate to share, and to whom, and under what circumstances, etc.

as stated earlier, it's more about speaking to those openly hostile to the faith, not the non-Orthodox.

 

[archer75]

I have heard that this prayer dates to the fourth century when the exact "forum" of Holy Communion was not widely known, even to catechumens. Is this so?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Thanks for mentioning that letter!

Glad it helped.

 

[The Liturgist]

as stated earlier, it's more about speaking to those openly hostile to the faith, not the non-Orthodox.

Father, could you give us some examples of topics we should not discuss with those hostile to Orthodox Christianity?

And also, would someone like a militant member of the Seventh Day Adventists who regards us as a corrupt church because we worship on Sunday and reject the prophecies of Ellen White, or a hardcore Calvinist Iconoclast who writes polemics accusing us of idolatry count as non-Orthodox or as hostile to the faith? Or both, perhaps?

 

[IoanC]

Matthew 7:6 ----
"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

This verse seems to be similar.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Father, could you give us some examples of topics we should not discuss with those hostile to Orthodox Christianity?

And also, would someone like a militant member of the Seventh Day Adventists who regards us as a corrupt church because we worship on Sunday and reject the prophecies of Ellen White, or a hardcore Calvinist Iconoclast who writes polemics accusing us of idolatry count as non-Orthodox or as hostile to the faith? Or both, perhaps?

sorry, I don’t mean to be rude, but I am not a fan of threads that have been dead for years being brought back up.

just a personal quirk of mine.

 

[The Liturgist]

sorry, I don’t mean to be rude, but I am not a fan of threads that have been dead for years being brought back up.

just a personal quirk of mine.

Oh, no problem at all, I completely understand, and I apologize if I disturbed you. I know many people do not like “thread necromancy” and some forums even automatically lock such threads.

I am sincerely wondering however about the correct answer to the question I asked, so I might post a new thread seeking clarification on that specific issue.

 

[ArmyMatt]

you’re good, no worries.