I want to date and marry, but I'm an "effeminate" Christian man. What do I do?

[TheRisingSun]

I'm an egalitarian Christian. Non-denominational, although I may join Grace Communion International. And as the title of the post implies, I'm the kind of Christian man that complementarian pastors on Twitter (I refuse to call that site X) complain about--unmasculine. No, I don't have long hair, but I don't play sports, I can be risk-averse, I'm physically weak, and I lack drive to be a leader or to compete. I'm not a masculine man. And honestly? This even extends to my dating preferences.


For the most part, masculine traits in women are more attractive than femininity to me. Being a tomboy in general, but also physical strength, courage, bravery, risk-taking, rationale, heroism (being willing to risk her life and limb for others),willingness to hunt or fight, even leadership. I even kind of appreciate boyishly short hair, especially when combined with an athletic body and a small/flat chest (I realized this when reading the manwha "The Knight and Her Emperor"). A woman who could be pass for a knight or a modern-day Jeanne D'Arc makes my heart sing.

Dating-wise, I absolutely NEED masculine energy to feel attraction. I NEED male energy. Which kind of sucks when femininity is so common in my sisters in Christ. I'm not starved for a feminine wife and mother at all; I'm starved for one who's "one of the guys". Is this a problem? Are my desires sinful? What advice do you have for me, as a brother or sister in Christ?

 

[AlexB23]

I'm an egalitarian Christian. Non-denominational, although I may join Grace Communion International. And as the title of the post implies, I'm the kind of Christian man that complementarian pastors on Twitter (I refuse to call that site X) complain about--unmasculine. No, I don't have long hair, but I don't play sports, I can be risk-averse, I'm physically weak, and I lack drive to be a leader or to compete. I'm not a masculine man. And honestly? This even extends to my dating preferences.


For the most part, masculine traits in women are more attractive than femininity to me. Being a tomboy in general, but also physical strength, courage, bravery, risk-taking, rationale, heroism (being willing to risk her life and limb for others),willingness to hunt or fight, even leadership. I even kind of appreciate boyishly short hair, especially when combined with an athletic body and a small/flat chest (I realized this when reading the manwha "The Knight and Her Emperor"). A woman who could be pass for a knight or a modern-day Jeanne D'Arc makes my heart sing.

Dating-wise, I absolutely NEED masculine energy to feel attraction. I NEED male energy. Which kind of sucks when femininity is so common in my sisters in Christ. I'm not starved for a feminine wife and mother at all; I'm starved for one who's "one of the guys". Is this a problem? Are my desires sinful? What advice do you have for me, as a brother or sister in Christ?

Well, as long as the woman is a woman and not trans, I see no problem. I like women who are self sufficient, but also community oriented.

 

[Grip Docility]

I'm an egalitarian Christian. Non-denominational, although I may join Grace Communion International. And as the title of the post implies, I'm the kind of Christian man that complementarian pastors on Twitter (I refuse to call that site X) complain about--unmasculine. No, I don't have long hair, but I don't play sports, I can be risk-averse, I'm physically weak, and I lack drive to be a leader or to compete. I'm not a masculine man. And honestly? This even extends to my dating preferences.


For the most part, masculine traits in women are more attractive than femininity to me. Being a tomboy in general, but also physical strength, courage, bravery, risk-taking, rationale, heroism (being willing to risk her life and limb for others),willingness to hunt or fight, even leadership. I even kind of appreciate boyishly short hair, especially when combined with an athletic body and a small/flat chest (I realized this when reading the manwha "The Knight and Her Emperor"). A woman who could be pass for a knight or a modern-day Jeanne D'Arc makes my heart sing.

Dating-wise, I absolutely NEED masculine energy to feel attraction. I NEED male energy. Which kind of sucks when femininity is so common in my sisters in Christ. I'm not starved for a feminine wife and mother at all; I'm starved for one who's "one of the guys". Is this a problem? Are my desires sinful? What advice do you have for me, as a brother or sister in Christ?

It sounds like you have a type. You may see yourself as "effeminate", but it is VERY Male to "have a type". It's kind of a curse. Kings have lost kingdom's over such matters. This said, Give 1 Corinthians 8 a read... and I mean REALLY give it a good read. Don't just blast through it! Read it and reread it in prayer. Use a biblical "Paraphrase" if you have to, to get the gist of it... then... READ it again, with a more accurate Translation.

I can't do this for you. I can't just give you the "cliff notes". You have to do this for yourself.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.

 

[Paidiske]

Is this a problem?

Only if it's a problem for you.

Are my desires sinful?

No more sinful than any other particular desires; and insofar as they are likely to lead you to treat any potential spouse well, with respect and dignity, probably less sinful than many!

What advice do you have for me, as a brother or sister in Christ?

Probably the same sort of advice I'd give any single person looking for a potential spouse. Get out and do things where you're likely to meet the sort of person you're looking for.

 

[PloverWing]

Dating-wise, I absolutely NEED masculine energy to feel attraction. I NEED male energy. Which kind of sucks when femininity is so common in my sisters in Christ. I'm not starved for a feminine wife and mother at all; I'm starved for one who's "one of the guys". Is this a problem? Are my desires sinful? What advice do you have for me, as a brother or sister in Christ?

There are women out there who fit the description you've given, and who are tired of pretending to be feminine just to find a man. Some of them may be delighted to meet someone like you. I see nothing wrong with you. I hope you find a woman with whom you can be yourself, and who can be herself with you.

 

[linux.poet]

I can reassure you that women of that type exist, because I am one of them. Unfortunately, I am taken by another guy who is just like you, and probably too far away. But people like me need to be loved.

One thing I would be concerned about is that your attraction to masculine women is rooted in an insecurity about your own lack of masculine interests. I got violently attracted to a guy who was good at chess because I had a closeted desire to become a chessmaster. So I would list out your top 10 things you want your future wife to have. Go down the list and slowly take up each of those things for yourself. Either you'll find a woman who has the characteristics you want in your new hobbies, or you'll find out that you don't want your spouse to be masculine as much as you want to be masculine yourself.

If you're nervous about taking on some masculine hobbies, just learn to laugh at yourself. Women who are masculine like to be better at masculine stuff than guys - it makes them feel less pathetic. You will provide safety for her and thus be attractive to the woman you seek.

 

[TheRisingSun]

I can reassure you that women of that type exist, because I am one of them. Unfortunately, I am taken by another guy who is just like you, and probably too far away. But people like me need to be loved.

One thing I would be concerned about is that your attraction to masculine women is rooted in an insecurity about your own lack of masculine interests. I got violently attracted to a guy who was good at chess because I had a closeted desire to become a chessmaster. So I would list out your top 10 things you want your future wife to have. Go down the list and slowly take up each of those things for yourself. Either you'll find a woman who has the characteristics you want in your new hobbies, or you'll find out that you don't want your spouse to be masculine as much as you want to be masculine yourself.

If you're nervous about taking on some masculine hobbies, just learn to laugh at yourself. Women who are masculine like to be better at masculine stuff than guys - it makes them feel less pathetic. You will provide safety for her and thus be attractive to the woman you seek.

My attraction isn't rooted in my insecurity; My insecurity is rooted in my attraction. I see femininity being highly valued in Christian men--and feminine women are held as the ideal, especially online. But here, you've got someone like me who's essentially looking for a real-life Private Vasquez.


Add to that the fact that again, I'm not a masculine man (Christian men, especially online, are encouraged to be masculine) nor am I a complementarian Christian.

 

[linux.poet]

My attraction isn't rooted in my insecurity; My insecurity is rooted in my attraction. I see femininity being highly valued in Christian men--and feminine women are held as the ideal, especially online. But here, you've got someone like me who's essentially looking for a real-life Private Vasquez.

I don't think anyone should use Christian "ideals" to evaluate their private desires. As long as your desires aren't sinful, there's no need to look at the dating charts and what everyone else wants. Frankly, there's never a need to look at the dating trends and what everyone else wants, unless you were raised in a home with no women for some reason and have been avoiding them. All you need is one person to satisfy what you want, and who that person is shouldn't be subject to other people's ideals.

People seem to miss the fact that a marriage relationship is the most private and intimate experience on this side of heaven and doesn't need to be subject to other people's judgement. Who you are with and why is your business, and if people don't respect your relationship, they don't respect you. You don't have to be friends with those people and can turn those influencers off. All the YouTubers promoting a feminine Christian ideal are making money by scaring you, and you do have the option to just stop watching them and just go find someone who gives you what you want.

Also, an ideal for femininity isn't even biblical. Proverbs 31 women plant vineyards, which you'd think would be "man's work" out in the hot sun, not to mention running their own businesses. The Song of Solomon's main character isn't a weak feminine woman, but a woman who spent a lot of time outdoors tending to, you guessed it, the vineyard. And this woman is the Hebrew romantic ideal! (Not to mention that Solomon, being the wisest man of all time, was likely pretty bookish and an incredible nerd.)

Ruth was rewarded for gleaning in the field to support her mother-in-law. In the real Bible, tomboys (and nerds) come out ahead. If anyone questions your desire for a masculine woman, you have a Scriptural defense. You don't want a super-spiritual art deco chick, you want a real woman who tends vineyards and hunts deer like a man. Go forth and conquer dude. You got this.

 

[Grip Docility]

I don't think anyone should use Christian "ideals" to evaluate their private desires. As long as your desires aren't sinful, there's no need to look at the dating charts and what everyone else wants. Frankly, there's never a need to look at the dating trends and what everyone else wants, unless you were raised in a home with no women for some reason and have been avoiding them. All you need is one person to satisfy what you want, and who that person is shouldn't be subject to other people's ideals.

People seem to miss the fact that a marriage relationship is the most private and intimate experience on this side of heaven and doesn't need to be subject to other people's judgement. Who you are with and why is your business, and if people don't respect your relationship, they don't respect you. You don't have to be friends with those people and can turn those influencers off. All the YouTubers promoting a feminine Christian ideal are making money by scaring you, and you do have the option to just stop watching them and just go find someone who gives you what you want.

Also, an ideal for femininity isn't even biblical. Proverbs 31 women plant vineyards, which you'd think would be "man's work" out in the hot sun, not to mention running their own businesses. The Song of Solomon's main character isn't a weak feminine woman, but a woman who spent a lot of time outdoors tending to, you guessed it, the vineyard. And this woman is the Hebrew romantic ideal! (Not to mention that Solomon, being the wisest man of all time, was likely pretty bookish and an incredible nerd.)

Ruth was rewarded for gleaning in the field to support her mother-in-law. In the real Bible, tomboys (and nerds) come out ahead. If anyone questions your desire for a masculine woman, you have a Scriptural defense. You don't want a super-spiritual art deco chick, you want a real woman who tends vineyards and hunts deer like a man. Go forth and conquer dude. You got this.

I mean, I don't usually say this, but Paul, who spoke to Jesus Christ Face to Face to receive the One True Gospel said it... so... all controversy aside, the Invisible Body of Christ has and always will be the most controversial thing on Planet Earth, right up until it is snatched away.... There is no Male nor Female in the Body of Christ. I didn't say it. Let it mean whatever it may mean to any and all under the Holy Spirit, by the Holy Spirit alone... but it's in there.

 

[linux.poet]

There is no Male nor Female in the Body of Christ. I didn't say it. Let it mean whatever it may mean to any and all under the Holy Spirit, by the Holy Spirit alone... but it's in there.

I honestly think that passage is against discrimination, that both male and female individuals alike are allowed to accept the Gospel and be a part of the church. The context of that statement is "There is no Jew or Greek....there is no slave or free." means that people of all races and classes are part of the church body, and they are to be treated with love and respect. "We are all one in Christ Jesus." There is no place in the church for racism, sexism, or class superiority.

It does not mean that sexuality or characteristics of male and female have been abolished.

 

[Grip Docility]

I honestly think that passage is against discrimination, that both male and female individuals alike are allowed to accept the Gospel and be a part of the church. The context of that statement is "There is no Jew or Greek....there is no slave or free." means that people of all races and classes are part of the church body, and they are to be treated with love and respect. "We are all one in Christ Jesus." There is no place in the church for racism, sexism, or class superiority.

It does not mean that sexuality or characteristics of male and female have been abolished.

Thought provoking verse that hit me as I read this… Mt. 22:30

 

[com7fy8]

As you grow in Jesus, your personality will not stay the way you are now. So, I wouldn't make plans going by how your personality is now. And God knows how you will become and what will be good for you then.

So, make sure with God about who you marry. He knows how you will become, as one with each other, including how He combines your personalities as one. You have no clue, now, how you two will become and what you will value doing.

As you mature in Jesus, your interests and preferences will develop.

As you get into loving others, you will be quite satisfied to let go of certain interests, in order to share with others. I remember how Paul made himself like others, in order to reach them for Jesus > 1 Corinthians 9:19-23.

I see that Paul could have adopted the interests of ones he was reaching and teaching, so he could relate with them, plus even use their interests and situations for presenting and explaining the word of God.

For one example, I might hate doing 2000-piece puzzles. But in talking with a puzzle enthusiast about marriage, I might point out how there is a major difference between an isolated piece and the same piece joined together with the others who fit all around it. And you might see what I am getting at, with you.

You now are more in isolation with your own more-or-less set personality and interests that perhaps you pursue on your own. But as God fits you and develops you together with other Christians and your spouse . . . you won't be quite so isolated, among other things.

While you are more of an isolated puzzle piece now, your picture of life is limited, including limited by your own interests, more or less > 2 Corinthians 6:12. But as you are joined with others, closely, now the picture you form with others will be quite different!

And, by the way, look at what Paul and Sylvanus and Timothy say about how they cared for the Thessalonians >

"just as a nursing mother cherishes her own children." (in 1 Thessalonians 2:7)

So, these men were not afraid or ashamed to relate like a nursing mother! But 1 Thessalonians 2:11 shows how they also related like a father.

So, in God's love we are better than how worldly people can be effeminate or masculine in some set category that humans have made without really getting to know people. But in God's love we grow in the best of everything of mothering and of fathering . . . as God's family.

So, grow in how Jesus is humble, all-loving, tenderly and generously forgiving, and compassionate. And you will discover how God will encourage you and satisfy you to do what He wants.

 

[TheLastGeek]

I'm an egalitarian Christian. Non-denominational, although I may join Grace Communion International. And as the title of the post implies, I'm the kind of Christian man that complementarian pastors on Twitter (I refuse to call that site X) complain about--unmasculine. No, I don't have long hair, but I don't play sports, I can be risk-averse, I'm physically weak, and I lack drive to be a leader or to compete. I'm not a masculine man. And honestly? This even extends to my dating preferences.


For the most part, masculine traits in women are more attractive than femininity to me. Being a tomboy in general, but also physical strength, courage, bravery, risk-taking, rationale, heroism (being willing to risk her life and limb for others),willingness to hunt or fight, even leadership. I even kind of appreciate boyishly short hair, especially when combined with an athletic body and a small/flat chest (I realized this when reading the manwha "The Knight and Her Emperor"). A woman who could be pass for a knight or a modern-day Jeanne D'Arc makes my heart sing.

Dating-wise, I absolutely NEED masculine energy to feel attraction. I NEED male energy. Which kind of sucks when femininity is so common in my sisters in Christ. I'm not starved for a feminine wife and mother at all; I'm starved for one who's "one of the guys". Is this a problem? Are my desires sinful? What advice do you have for me, as a brother or sister in Christ?

I don't think this is a question that can be answered appropriately by strangers on the internet. It sounds like there are some deep-seated reasons for the traits that you exhibit, as well as the traits you desire in a partner. While I fully believe that masculinity and femininity are spectrums with a wide range, I think it's quite rare for a man to feel extremely feminine, and even rarer for a man to desire an extremely masculine woman. I'm not going to say that it's sinful or a problem; I think that's a question that would need to be explored with a professional Christian therapist who has a good grasp on both psychological and theological knowledge.

My advice would be to seek such counseling if this continues to be something that bothers or distresses you.

 

[angelsaroundme]

I don't think types are as fixed as they might seem. I think "ideal types" can change as we change. However, I don't see any problem with wanting a woman with a pixie cut or something along those lines. Emma Watson with the pixie cut was kind of a big deal. But maybe as you develop your own confidence, you'll find that your desire for "male" energy in a woman will decrease, and you'll just want a more regular, if still slightly "masculine", woman.

 

[TheRisingSun]

I don't think types are as fixed as they might seem. I think "ideal types" can change as we change. However, I don't see any problem with wanting a woman with a pixie cut or something along those lines. Emma Watson with the pixie cut was kind of a big deal. But maybe as you develop your own confidence, you'll find that your desire for "male" energy in a woman will decrease, and you'll just want a more regular, if still slightly "masculine", woman.

So you think the reason why I'm basically looking for a real-life Private Vasquez is because I lack confidence?

 

[angelsaroundme]

So you think the reason why I'm basically looking for a real-life Private Vasquez is because I lack confidence?

Like how shy people are often attracted to confident people, it's not uncommon for someone to be attracted to what they lack. Or at least what they feel like they are lacking.

You may want an assertive woman so you don't feel the pressure to lead. I think many, if not most, relationships are predominantly lead by women in industrialized countries. However, men still usually like to say it's an equal relationship. But by doing that there can be a tension of whose going to compromise this time. Having her as the clear leader could be a means of conflict avoidance.

 

[timewerx]

Being a tomboy in general, but also physical strength, courage, bravery, risk-taking, rationale, heroism (being willing to risk her life and limb for others),willingness to hunt or fight, even leadership. I even kind of appreciate boyishly short hair, especially when combined with an athletic body and a small/flat chest (I realized this when reading the manwha "The Knight and Her Emperor"). A woman who could be pass for a knight or a modern-day Jeanne D'Arc makes my heart sing.

If you have none of these qualities or unwilling to do any of these, such woman might find you uninteresting.

What common interests are you going to talk about? What activities you'll have fun doing together?

Such woman will be in gym or partaking in athletic events, running in the woods meeting other people. If you're with such woman but not with her in activities she loves to do, your relationship may not last, eventually, she'll meet someone who is more like her.

Think about this as well. A woman who starts engaging in vigorous physical activities in order to look tough, NOT soft and resents being soft may not want to be with a man who is soft and remind her of her past when she used to be soft.

And here's a really good advice: I strongly recommend adopting the good habit of exercising, working out, building your strength. Because if you're physically weak now, it's bound to get worse as you get older and can lead to many health complications.

I workout, lift weights, and also run, cycle, and skate 10 to 14 hrs each week and I would definitely find a woman more interesting if she's doing any of those for common interests and to do activities with her that we'll both have fun doing.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

If you have none of these qualities or unwilling to do any of these, such woman might find you uninteresting.

What common interests are you going to talk about? What activities you'll have fun doing together?

Such woman will be in gym or partaking in athletic events, running in the woods meeting other people. If you're with such woman but not with her in activities she loves to do, your relationship may not last, eventually, she'll meet someone who is more like her.

Think about this as well. A woman who starts engaging in vigorous physical activities in order to look tough, NOT soft and resents being soft may not want to be with a man who is soft and remind her of her past when she used to be soft.

And here's a really good advice: I strongly recommend adopting the good habit of exercising, working out, building your strength. Because if you're physically weak now, it's bound to get worse as you get older and can lead to many health complications.

Maybe a couple of years in the military. Our culture has become a nest for creating men who lack masculinity. Not criticizing any individual. Our schools, media, entertainment, and just culture in general have departed from the reality of human existence. I consider them victims.

 

[timewerx]

Maybe a couple of years in the military. Our culture has become a nest for creating men who lack masculinity. Not criticizing any individual. Our schools, media, entertainment, and just culture in general have departed from the reality of human existence. I consider them victims.

I totally agree.

Society would be a lot nicer if everyone can tolerate a bit of discomfort, a bit of inconvenience every now and then.

 

[angelsaroundme]

timewerx makes a valid point. There's a very good chance that a woman with extreme "male" hobbies wouldn't desire a guy who can't at least keep pace with her. A woman with high "male" energy would likely want a guy with above average "male" energy themselves. I use the quotation marks because were using these terms very stereotypically.

Anyways, I think it's something to consider. That if you want to remain how you are, you would probably be better off with a more regular woman. One you would not be that imbalanced with. It's like how celebrities mostly date celebrities, or at least someone rich, or model appearance type, or highly confident. Only rarely does a celebrity date someone that can be considered "average". So if you want someone extreme you would want to decrease the gap between you and them. You might find out that with exercising, working out, etc. that you'll develop your own confidence and your ideal type changes somewhat. And if not, at least you'll be more appealing to your ideal type. If you do work out, take it slow though, overdoing it is not good.