I thought I had them at the flood, but...

[Job 33:6]

 

[Job 33:6]

"Simply no. The cycles you refer to are imagenery "

 

[Job 33:6]

glacial till, tundra, glacial till, periglacial, glacial till, periglacial, glacial till, tundra, shallow marine, glacial, tundra, shallow marine, glacial.

Periglaciation describes geomorphic processes that result from seasonal thawing of snow in areas of permafrost, the runoff from which refreezes in ice wedges and other structures. "Periglacial" suggests an environment located on the margin of past glaciers.

An outwash plain, also called a sandur (plural: sandurs[1]), sandr[2] or sandar,[3] is a plain formed of glacial sediments deposited by meltwater outwash at the terminus of a glacier.

This is cyclical, its a patter of cooling and warming over and over and over again because you get deposition of glacial till with the retreat of glaciers during warming periods, followed by tundra in which shrubs grow, warm temperatures result in increased precipitation and runoff which erodes silt deposits and buries dead animals, temperatures drop, another glacier moves in, compresses the tundra and peat (shrubs), then melts away and the cycle repeats.

And all of this is middle pleistocene strata. This is what was happening in these times. There wasnt just one ice age, and there wasnt just one glacial period per ice age. there were many advances and retreats of ice, over and over and over again. Which is why different layers of till extend south at different distances, its because the ice that deposited the till extended different distances in each glaciation. Then in between layers of till you get things like outwash (cause by the flow of water from the melted retreating glacier) and shrubs and tundra.

and the mammoth fossils are found in times where glaciers have retreated, melt and runoff has resulted in erosion and buried them, but in between these melting periods, mammoths are found at a lesser quantity (if at all).

 

[Job 33:6]

Simply no. The cycles you refer to are imagenery and the evidence is there for all to see which is: There is no mass fossilization going on today because the conditions for mass fossilization are not present. The elephant in the room is still there and your efforts to control the conversation are not changing that.
PS Sedimentary layers under the muck. Why am I even talking to you?

So yes, there are cycles. And obviously we aren't going to see this kind of mass fossilization going on, A: because all the megafauna are dead and have been dead for 10,000 years, and B, this fossilization took upwards of 40,000 to 50,000 years to occur in total. Ie, whens the last time you lived through a glacial period and lived through an interglacial and back into a glacial period again? Of course you wouldnt see fossilization like this unless you lived tens of thousands of years.

PS, what formation are you referring to with respect to the sedimentary layers? Ive asked a few times and you dont seem to know what you're talking about. You havent posted any research on it, so i have no idea what locality youre talking about, and you wont say.

 

[Job 33:6]

"How many fossils show signs of predation or infestation by flies or other scavengers that usually begin within minutes of death?" ~ Daniele Martinovich

For a human body, 8 to 12 years if buried in soil without embalming or a casket. A few years for a large bird.
http://www.memorialpages.co.uk/articles/decomposition.php



Fossil Lake is thought to have been density stratified like an estuary. Heavier (more dense) salt water occupies the deepest sections of the lake and lighter (less dense) freshwater ‘floats’ above in the shallows (a remnant of an evaporative phase when the lake was young). This prevents freshwater scavengers from eating dead animals that fell to the bottom of the lake. Lake turnover (where anoxic waters at the bottom mix with oxygen rich water near the surface) did not occur, creating perpetual anoxic conditions along the bottom which discouraged scavengers]. Once an animal dies in a place where preservation is likely, it becomes buried in sediment and protected from scavengers and bacteria. The examination of the second step (what happens after death and how animals become fossils) is considered the science of Taphonomy, discussed below.
https://www.nps.gov/teachers/classrooms/the_fossil_cycle.htm

in some cases, mammoths have been partially scavenged as well. But its all based on the locality, which seems "to be determined" as @Daniel Martinovich does not want to say what localities he feels concerned about.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

View attachment 239050

Cyclical patterns of deposition are recorded in stone.

Mass deposits sediment are recorded in stone as one current withdraws leaving much of its sediment and another moves in from a worldwide cataclysmic flood.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

So yes, there are cycles. And obviously we aren't going to see this kind of mass fossilization going on, A: because all the megafauna are dead and have been dead for 10,000 years, and B, this fossilization took upwards of 40,000 to 50,000 years to occur in total. Ie, whens the last time you lived through a glacial period and lived through an interglacial and back into a glacial period again? Of course you wouldnt see fossilization like this unless you lived tens of thousands of years.

PS, what formation are you referring to with respect to the sedimentary layers? Ive asked a few times and you dont seem to know what you're talking about. You havent posted any research on it, so i have no idea what locality youre talking about, and you wont say.

Plants and animals are eaten and decompose unless something cataclysmic happens to prevent it. Has always been that way and will always been that way. That is observable science. Hence no mass fossilization going on today.

 

[Job 33:6]

Mass deposits sediment are recorded in stone as one current withdraws leaving much of its sediment and another moves in from a worldwide cataclysmic flood.

These are deposits from melted glaciers. You should read up on the differences between glacial till and flood deposits. Glaciers also drop erratics and rip up clasts, they carve striations and yield unsorted deposits.

Besides, you already said that you don't think a flood was responsible for what we see with respect to mammoth fossilization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Till

Glacial drift is the coarsely graded and extremely heterogeneous sediment of a glacier; till is the part of glacial drift deposited directly by the glacier. Its content may vary from clays to mixtures of clay, sand, gravel, and boulders. This material is mostly derived from the subglacial erosion and entrainment by the moving ice of the glaciers of previously available unconsolidated sediments. Bedrock can also be eroded through the action of glacial pluckingand abrasion and the resulting clasts of various sizes will be incorporated to the glacier's bed.

 

[Job 33:6]

Plants and animals are eaten and decompose unless something cataclysmic happens to prevent it. Has always been that way and will always been that way. That is observable science. Hence no mass fossilization going on today.

Well there are half eaten whooly mammoth carcasses frozen in pleistocene strata, so I guess you're out of luck.

Like I said before, from the bottom up we have glaciations (cooler), shallow marine and tundra (warmer), glaciation (cooler), shallow marine and tundra (warmer), till (cool to warm), periglacial (melting and thawing, repeat), till (cool to warm), periglacial (melting and thawing, repeat), till (cool to warm), tundra (warm).

Look at the layers, you can see in the diagram, layer after layer after layer of till, and in between the till are layers containing things like tundra based vegetation and periglacial strata.

These arent flood deposits, its glacial till, its completely different. We have glacial striations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacial_striation

Striations where ice from these advancing and retreating glaciers, carved rock from the north pole, down through new york and into the northern parts of pennsylvania.

Floods cant do this.

 

[Space Doc]

Been there, done that, got the hat, T-shirt, etc.
which Global flood do you fuss about? Noahic?
Pre-Adamite?

 

[Space Doc]

You are correct about glacial scouring and destruction. Hardly any "science" in that; mostly guesswork, right? Just reviewed science accomplishments for 2017. LIDO & gravitational waves. The first intact dinosaur specimen with stomach contents, skin coloring, awesome intact admiring. "Ain't God great?"

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Well there are half eaten whooly mammoth carcasses frozen in pleistocene strata, so I guess you're out of luck.

Why would there not be if an animal was half buried in loess and scavengers ate what was sticking out. Or a corpse in the process of being eaten before it got buried? Or better yet a million suffocated animals from one big loess storm not buried and mostly demposed all the while being scavenged then all buried by another loess storm 3 months later. Anyway you cut it. Mass buriel by loess or sediment takes a mass catastrophe.

 

[Space Doc]

"Admiring s/b Armoring"

 

[Space Doc]

Scavengers!

 

[Job 33:6]

Why would there not be if an animal was half buried in loess and scavengers ate what was sticking out. Or a corpse in the process of being eaten before it got buried? Or better yet a million suffocated animals from one big loess storm not buried and mostly demposed all the while being scavenged then all buried by another loess storm 3 months later. Anyway you cut it. Mass buriel by loess or sediment takes a mass catastrophe.

But they arent even in the same layers, the fossils are in different layers of different depths, and they are contained in strata with underlying intermittent glacial till.

These arent flood deposits that they are contained in. Its glacial till and outwash.

And these arent layers deposited by some giant wind storm either. Theyre glacial deposits and there are several independent layers of glacial till, separated by tundra and outwash from their melt.

 

[Job 33:6]

@Daniel Martinovich

Do you see this image? Do you see the layers of till, with periglacial and tundra deposits in between?

 

[Job 33:6]

How about this? can anyone see the above?

Or this^

Each color is representing a superpositionally and compositionally and temporally different sections of glacial till.

Because there were numerous independent glaciations separated by warmer temperatures in which the glaciers retreated and deposited till.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Till

These strata were not deposited by flood waters. Flood waters cannot create glacial striations nor do flood waters deposit poorly sorted gravels nor erratics. Flood waters do not rip up stone as glaciers do.

And these strata are not the product of some bizarre wind storm either. Wind storms cannot make these features either. These are features of glaciers. Glaciers carve moraines. Flood waters do not, nor do wind storms.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

View attachment 239078

How about this? can anyone see the above?

Or this^

Each color is representing a superpositionally and compositionally and temporally different sections of glacial till.

Because there were numerous independent glaciations separated by warmer temperatures in which the glaciers retreated and deposited till.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Till

These strata were not deposited by flood waters. Flood waters cannot create glacial striations nor do flood waters deposit poorly sorted gravels nor erratics. Flood waters do not rip up stone as glaciers do.

And these strata are not the product of some bizarre wind storm either. Wind storms cannot make these features either. These are features of glaciers. Glaciers carve moraines. Flood waters do not, nor do wind storms.

And how many Woolly mammoths, rhinoceros, bison etc. etc do you estimate is in that particular cross section of till in northern PN? Is it rich in fossil deposits or poor?

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

View attachment 239078

How about this? can anyone see the above?

Or this^

Each color is representing a superpositionally and compositionally and temporally different sections of glacial till.

Because there were numerous independent glaciations separated by warmer temperatures in which the glaciers retreated and deposited till.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Till

These strata were not deposited by flood waters. Flood waters cannot create glacial striations nor do flood waters deposit poorly sorted gravels nor erratics. Flood waters do not rip up stone as glaciers do.

And these strata are not the product of some bizarre wind storm either. Wind storms cannot make these features either. These are features of glaciers. Glaciers carve moraines. Flood waters do not, nor do wind storms.

I appreciate your area of specialty if your a geologist. But we are not talking about Glacial till which I suspect might be rich in fossil fragments like little pieces of broken up bone and teeth. But not whole bones much less whole animals. I am surprised though if this is some kind of and area of specialty of yours that so many consider wind blown Loess is made up of mostly glacier till.
Anyway. In the articles I have been gleaning over since we started this discussion, and remember Loess is new to me. I keep seeing things like Mastodons and such being dug up out of Loess in the Midwest. So apparently whatever caused these freaky dust storms capable of killing and burying nearly burying a couple of continents worth of animals. Many scientists consider the withdrawal of the glaciers and the leftover till responsible for the dust.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loess_Hills
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loess
https://igws.indiana.edu/Surficial/Loess.cfm
https://www.geobotany.uaf.edu/library/pubs/WalkerDA1991_emon_61_437.pdf

 

[Job 33:6]

I appreciate your area of specialty if your a geologist. But we are not talking about Glacial till which I suspect might be rich in fossil fragments like little pieces of broken up bone and teeth. But not whole bones much less whole animals. I am surprised though if this is some kind of and area of specialty of yours that so many consider wind blown Loess is made up of mostly glacier till.
Anyway. In the articles I have been gleaning over since we started this discussion, and remember Loess is new to me. I keep seeing things like Mastodons and such being dug up out of Loess in the Midwest. So apparently whatever caused these freaky dust storms capable of killing and burying nearly burying a couple of continents worth of animals. Many scientists consider the withdrawal of the glaciers and the leftover till responsible for the dust.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loess_Hills
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loess
https://igws.indiana.edu/Surficial/Loess.cfm
https://www.geobotany.uaf.edu/library/pubs/WalkerDA1991_emon_61_437.pdf

Well, the mammoth fossils are found above, below and throughout glacial deposits.

So unless you would like to share research or an actual locality, then I'll have to assume you're wrong.

You are the one who brought up the fairgrounds area, and glacial till is exactly what the fairgrounds consists of in which mammoths are found.

You have to understand that, these animals and the millions that you're referring to, they're found in different places, they have been fossilized in varying ways, they are surrounded by different geologic and different geomorphologic features. They have different histories. Which is why you have to give explicit details on what you're referring to.

Already we have discussed mammoths being trapped in lakes, we have discussed mammoths being rapidly buried near alluvial fans. We have large sections of morphologically and anotomically unique animals in independent layers as well, separated by things like glacial till.

Now it looks like you're steering toward another location.