I think I've apostatized.

[TheLostCoin]

I need to confess something out in the open, something that has been bubbling within me for a while, and I need to just open up and be perfectly honest - I wonder how in the hell can God be Love, and how God can be anything else but a monster.


So okay, God has allowed all these various religions to exist for hundreds of years since the advent of Christianity. He has allowed these religions which all create deep-rooted psychological attachments and nostalgia, which grandparents always past down to there kids. He doesn't stop these religions, He doesn't destroy these religions, He allows them to grow and grow. Sunni Islam, Shia Islam, Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, Assyrian Church of the East. In fact, He makes it an absolute pain in the behind to convert from one of these religions to another due to these deep-rooted psychological attachments, which every single human being will be biased towards,

And yet, He has just hidden the magic ball underneath an inconspicuous cup. Pick the wrong one, feel free to burn for all eternity forever without a second chance. Pick the right one, and you get to party with God forever.

Your choice. You can't possibly know which one is the right one, you just have to go with your gut and hopefully you don't burn for all eternity forever.


On top of that, He has permitted a Creation narrative to be taught that makes no sense whatsoever. Were there dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden? Did the T-Rex eat fruit? How the hell was the world flooded for 40 days, with all of humanity repopulating from 3 people at an incredibly fast rate, with at least two of every single animal fitting on the Ark and somehow being fed without people dying of dysentery from all the crap? Why is the Old Testament rooted in a Geocentric, Flat-Earth cosmology? What do we make of the objective, quantifiable data that clearly show ape-like creatures slowly turning into human-like creatures over time? Yet somehow, the rational human being is supposed to reconcile these contradictions.


And even then, He intentionally cripples each of these religions without getting rid of them, which all tell you that outside of their religion there is no salvation, in different ways. In Roman Catholicism, He has effectively destroyed the beauty that it once espoused, destroyed the spirituality, rendered any objective morality or dogma completely meaningless and subjective.

There was an event which occurred at Vatican II - Cardinal Ottiovani, an old man, who was blind, went on stage with a mic, and was warning the other Cardinals about compromising tradition. The Council Fathers turned off his mic and began laughing at him when they couldn't hear him. He began to cry.

This whole juvenile immaturity of condescending towards tradition IS Roman Catholicism now. Despite existing for 1960 years without a hitch in terms of moral and liturgical tradition, NOW He laughs and mocks all of it and allows all those who live within it to lose Faith. It's juvenility and relativism now, run by illogical and lawless people.

And it's captain is one of the most narcisstic pieces of filth I've ever seen. Holy crap, wearing a cassock renders you a "woman priest." And keep letting all those priests sexually assault those kids, because why not.


Orthodoxy? He has divided it up. All it is now is a propaganda outlet for Nationalism, and nothing more. Being Holy for the Orthodox is being Nationalistic. Nothing better than those racist Jews, who felt they were racially superior because they were God's chosen people. And it's all about being an ethnic clique, nothing more. Very few, like the very few in Roman Catholicism who actually view Tradition as important, actually see Orthodoxy as something more. In fact, I will say that many people in my first Orthodox parish hated me because I actually liked Orthodoxy's old antiquated morality and doctrines, and wanted something more than just being Russian or Greek.


And we can't just throw up our hands and say a particular institution doesn't matter, and all that matters is Christ. What do we know what Christ taught? What do we know what He would approve? The Bible itself is littered with contradictions. God at one point commands people to be stoned, the next He condemns stoning. God commands the Israelites to slaughter the Canaanites, then He tells us those who live by the sword die by the sword. One instance money is a blessing, the next it's the source of all evil. One instance there is no High Priest but Christ, the next those who partake of the Sacrifice unworthily are damned. One moment people are baptizing in the name of Jesus, the next they are baptized in the name of the Trinity. Good luck figuring out morality from the Bible alone! Or Who Christ was! Or what Salvation means!

Who knows? Maybe I'm a sinner for opposing abortion, maybe I'm a sinner for supporting it. Maybe I'm a sinner for forbidding my children from masturbation, maybe I'm a sinner for allowing it. Maybe I'm a sinner for supporting a war for democracy, maybe I'm a sinner for being against it. Maybe I'm a sinner for opposing homosexuality and transgenderism, maybe I'm a sinner for supporting it.

And that's assuming the Bible's even right. Maybe the Bible is a false document that we can't trust at all.


So out all of these facts, that God has allowed religions post Christianity to exist and allowed them to create deep psychological biases that cloud are subjective judgment, that it's logically impossible to know which one is objectively the True One, that God has forced a Creation narrative that is irreconcilable with common sense, and that God has crippled all of these religions in various ways, and that outside of these religions, it's logically impossible to know what true morality and belief is, and that if we are wrong on these things, we burn for all eternity forever, can we all agree that God is a psychopathic monster?

So what, despite being Omniscient and therefore knowing what all physical phenomena feels like as it pertains to everything, He actually suffered for a small period of time. Why should this monster be worthy of our worship?

Maybe Satan saw something in God that we don't, and that information is hidden from us from God.

I think I'm done with God. I have to find some other purpose in my life outside of it.

 

[Not David]

I need to confess something out in the open, something that has been bubbling within me for a while, and I need to just open up and be perfectly honest - I wonder how in the hell can God be Love, and how God can be anything else but a monster.


So okay, God has allowed all these various religions to exist for hundreds of years since the advent of Christianity. He has allowed these religions which all create deep-rooted psychological attachments and nostalgia, which grandparents always past down to there kids. He doesn't stop these religions, He doesn't destroy these religions, He allows them to grow and grow. Sunni Islam, Shia Islam, Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, Assyrian Church of the East. In fact, He makes it an absolute pain in the behind to convert from one of these religions to another due to these deep-rooted psychological attachments, which every single human being will be biased towards,

And yet, He has just hidden the magic ball underneath an inconspicuous cup. Pick the wrong one, feel free to burn for all eternity forever without a second chance. Pick the right one, and you get to party with God forever.

Your choice. You can't possibly know which one is the right one, you just have to go with your gut and hopefully you don't burn for all eternity forever.


On top of that, He has permitted a Creation narrative to be taught that makes no sense whatsoever. Were there dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden? Did the T-Rex eat fruit? How the hell was the world flooded for 40 days, with all of humanity repopulating from 3 people at an incredibly fast rate, with at least two of every single animal fitting on the Ark and somehow being fed without people dying of dysentery from all the crap? Why is the Old Testament rooted in a Geocentric, Flat-Earth cosmology? What do we make of the objective, quantifiable data that clearly show ape-like creatures slowly turning into human-like creatures over time? Yet somehow, the rational human being is supposed to reconcile these contradictions.


And even then, He intentionally cripples each of these religions without getting rid of them, which all tell you that outside of their religion there is no salvation, in different ways. In Roman Catholicism, He has effectively destroyed the beauty that it once espoused, destroyed the spirituality, rendered any objective morality or dogma completely meaningless and subjective.

There was an event which occurred at Vatican II - Cardinal Ottiovani, an old man, who was blind, went on stage with a mic, and was warning the other Cardinals about compromising tradition. The Council Fathers turned off his mic and began laughing at him when they couldn't hear him. He began to cry.

This whole juvenile immaturity of condescending towards tradition IS Roman Catholicism now. Despite existing for 1960 years without a hitch in terms of moral and liturgical tradition, NOW He laughs and mocks all of it and allows all those who live within it to lose Faith. It's juvenility and relativism now, run by illogical and lawless people.

And it's captain is one of the most narcisstic pieces of filth I've ever seen. Holy crap, wearing a cassock renders you a "woman priest." And keep letting all those priests sexually assault those kids, because why not.


Orthodoxy? He has divided it up. All it is now is a propaganda outlet for Nationalism, and nothing more. Being Holy for the Orthodox is being Nationalistic. Nothing better than those racist Jews, who felt they were racially superior because they were God's chosen people. And it's all about being an ethnic clique, nothing more. Very few, like the very few in Roman Catholicism who actually view Tradition as important, actually see Orthodoxy as something more. In fact, I will say that many people in my first Orthodox parish hated me because I actually liked Orthodoxy's old antiquated morality and doctrines, and wanted something more than just being Russian or Greek.


And we can't just throw up our hands and say a particular institution doesn't matter, and all that matters is Christ. What do we know what Christ taught? What do we know what He would approve? The Bible itself is littered with contradictions. God at one point commands people to be stoned, the next He condemns stoning. God commands the Israelites to slaughter the Canaanites, then He tells us those who live by the sword die by the sword. One instance money is a blessing, the next it's the source of all evil. One instance there is no High Priest but Christ, the next those who partake of the Sacrifice unworthily are damned. One moment people are baptizing in the name of Jesus, the next they are baptized in the name of the Trinity. Good luck figuring out morality from the Bible alone! Or Who Christ was! Or what Salvation means!

Who knows? Maybe I'm a sinner for opposing abortion, maybe I'm a sinner for supporting it. Maybe I'm a sinner for forbidding my children from masturbation, maybe I'm a sinner for allowing it. Maybe I'm a sinner for supporting a war for democracy, maybe I'm a sinner for being against it. Maybe I'm a sinner for opposing homosexuality and transgenderism, maybe I'm a sinner for supporting it.

And that's assuming the Bible's even right. Maybe the Bible is a false document that we can't trust at all.


So out all of these facts, that God has allowed religions post Christianity to exist and allowed them to create deep psychological biases that cloud are subjective judgment, that it's logically impossible to know which one is objectively the True One, that God has forced a Creation narrative that is irreconcilable with common sense, and that God has crippled all of these religions in various ways, and that outside of these religions, it's logically impossible to know what true morality and belief is, and that if we are wrong on these things, we burn for all eternity forever, can we all agree that God is a psychopathic monster?

So what, despite being Omniscient and therefore knowing what all physical phenomena feels like as it pertains to everything, He actually suffered for a small period of time. Why should this monster be worthy of our worship?

Maybe Satan saw something in God that we don't, and that information is hidden from us from God.

I think I'm done with God. I have to find some other purpose in my life outside of it.

With what authority do you come to complain about "God being a monster"? With your limited understanding of an American zoomer of the 21st century?

You want God to be the big daddy to control everything people do. That's not how things work.

Let's say you live a life without God? What's next? What's your goal in life? What's your philosophy and why should we listen to it?

My comment might be rude but if I need to do that to warn my fellow zoomers of their mistakes then I will have to.

 

[Jonaitis]

I think I'm done with God. I have to find some other purpose in my life outside of it.

"Whom have I in heaven but you? And there is nothing on earth that I desire besides you. My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever" (Psalm 73:25-26).

 

[Ricky M]

I hear you. I was saved at 5, seen and been involved in some incredible miracles. I've seen too much to say there is no God. Yet, I've also seen enough to know that these are the exceptions, not the rule. For every time God intercedes, there's 1,000 others He lets hang. Too, if I had a kid and told him to make himself at home, just stay out of the cookie jar ... and then one day I walk into the kitchen and he's elbow deep in the cookie jar ... and my reaction is to say screw this, I'm outta here and abandon the kid - they wouldn't be flocking to praise and worship me as father of the year, they'd be dragging my keister off to jail.

And then - God repeatedly says He doesn't want anyone to perish. OK, I ran a thread in another forum asking, out of all the people who have walked this earth since Adam and Eve, what percentage of them will actually make it to the New Earth? Of course that's really hard to say, but the consensus was it'll be a pretty small number (as the Bible says it will be). As small as 10% some thought. Someone on this site shared data that says 1 out of 3 people currently alive claim to be (claim to be) Christian. Assuming that applied throughout time, and ... the greatest mind in the universe - who wishes that none would perish - couldn't come up with a redemption plan with a better than 1 out of 3 success rate? I only know one other group that considers 33% a success, that's baseball.

Yet, the thing that kinda renders all that moot is, God admits to it. Man I hate when people admit to things. Kinda takes the air out of the argument.

Contrary to what so many tell you, God isn't in control of all this. He never wanted to be. He put one man in charge, said here you are the boss. That one guy screwed it up for all the rest of us by giving that control away. Yes God could have stepped in and taken it back, but then He'd be in control - which is again, from the very beginning, not what He wanted. Thus began the long, painful process of putting man back in charge without taking charge Himself.

I've got 3 dozen or more passages of scripture that basically say we're going to eat doo-doo here in the world because of who currently runs it. God gives us the means by which to take charge in His name on a case by case basis, but by and large, as I say, miraculous healing was never intended to be a health care plan (but then again nor was a go fund me account). If you really read what's in the Bible, you'll see God describing a war of attrition ever escalating until He returns. That's why He says perseverance is the key, because there will be times when that is all we have.

Again, I've seen too much to say God's not real and the whole story is a lie. I'm just some stupid idiot who someday will be out of this cesspool and in a place where I'll finally get it. And I'm sure at that time it'll all seem so ridiculously simple. Until then, I have to persevere in the face of all these questions. I may not agree with where we are or how we got here, but I do agree with how it ends and I have to follow that.

I pray you may also.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I need to confess something out in the open, something that has been bubbling within me for a while, and I need to just open up and be perfectly honest - I wonder how in the hell can God be Love, and how God can be anything else but a monster.


So okay, God has allowed all these various religions to exist for hundreds of years since the advent of Christianity. He has allowed these religions which all create deep-rooted psychological attachments and nostalgia, which grandparents always past down to there kids. He doesn't stop these religions, He doesn't destroy these religions, He allows them to grow and grow. Sunni Islam, Shia Islam, Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, Assyrian Church of the East. In fact, He makes it an absolute pain in the behind to convert from one of these religions to another due to these deep-rooted psychological attachments, which every single human being will be biased towards,

And yet, He has just hidden the magic ball underneath an inconspicuous cup. Pick the wrong one, feel free to burn for all eternity forever without a second chance. Pick the right one, and you get to party with God forever.

Your choice. You can't possibly know which one is the right one, you just have to go with your gut and hopefully you don't burn for all eternity forever.


On top of that, He has permitted a Creation narrative to be taught that makes no sense whatsoever. Were there dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden? Did the T-Rex eat fruit? How the hell was the world flooded for 40 days, with all of humanity repopulating from 3 people at an incredibly fast rate, with at least two of every single animal fitting on the Ark and somehow being fed without people dying of dysentery from all the crap? Why is the Old Testament rooted in a Geocentric, Flat-Earth cosmology? What do we make of the objective, quantifiable data that clearly show ape-like creatures slowly turning into human-like creatures over time? Yet somehow, the rational human being is supposed to reconcile these contradictions.


And even then, He intentionally cripples each of these religions without getting rid of them, which all tell you that outside of their religion there is no salvation, in different ways. In Roman Catholicism, He has effectively destroyed the beauty that it once espoused, destroyed the spirituality, rendered any objective morality or dogma completely meaningless and subjective.

There was an event which occurred at Vatican II - Cardinal Ottiovani, an old man, who was blind, went on stage with a mic, and was warning the other Cardinals about compromising tradition. The Council Fathers turned off his mic and began laughing at him when they couldn't hear him. He began to cry.

This whole juvenile immaturity of condescending towards tradition IS Roman Catholicism now. Despite existing for 1960 years without a hitch in terms of moral and liturgical tradition, NOW He laughs and mocks all of it and allows all those who live within it to lose Faith. It's juvenility and relativism now, run by illogical and lawless people.

And it's captain is one of the most narcisstic pieces of filth I've ever seen. Holy crap, wearing a cassock renders you a "woman priest." And keep letting all those priests sexually assault those kids, because why not.


Orthodoxy? He has divided it up. All it is now is a propaganda outlet for Nationalism, and nothing more. Being Holy for the Orthodox is being Nationalistic. Nothing better than those racist Jews, who felt they were racially superior because they were God's chosen people. And it's all about being an ethnic clique, nothing more. Very few, like the very few in Roman Catholicism who actually view Tradition as important, actually see Orthodoxy as something more. In fact, I will say that many people in my first Orthodox parish hated me because I actually liked Orthodoxy's old antiquated morality and doctrines, and wanted something more than just being Russian or Greek.


And we can't just throw up our hands and say a particular institution doesn't matter, and all that matters is Christ. What do we know what Christ taught? What do we know what He would approve? The Bible itself is littered with contradictions. God at one point commands people to be stoned, the next He condemns stoning. God commands the Israelites to slaughter the Canaanites, then He tells us those who live by the sword die by the sword. One instance money is a blessing, the next it's the source of all evil. One instance there is no High Priest but Christ, the next those who partake of the Sacrifice unworthily are damned. One moment people are baptizing in the name of Jesus, the next they are baptized in the name of the Trinity. Good luck figuring out morality from the Bible alone! Or Who Christ was! Or what Salvation means!

Who knows? Maybe I'm a sinner for opposing abortion, maybe I'm a sinner for supporting it. Maybe I'm a sinner for forbidding my children from masturbation, maybe I'm a sinner for allowing it. Maybe I'm a sinner for supporting a war for democracy, maybe I'm a sinner for being against it. Maybe I'm a sinner for opposing homosexuality and transgenderism, maybe I'm a sinner for supporting it.

And that's assuming the Bible's even right. Maybe the Bible is a false document that we can't trust at all.


So out all of these facts, that God has allowed religions post Christianity to exist and allowed them to create deep psychological biases that cloud are subjective judgment, that it's logically impossible to know which one is objectively the True One, that God has forced a Creation narrative that is irreconcilable with common sense, and that God has crippled all of these religions in various ways, and that outside of these religions, it's logically impossible to know what true morality and belief is, and that if we are wrong on these things, we burn for all eternity forever, can we all agree that God is a psychopathic monster?

So what, despite being Omniscient and therefore knowing what all physical phenomena feels like as it pertains to everything, He actually suffered for a small period of time. Why should this monster be worthy of our worship?

Maybe Satan saw something in God that we don't, and that information is hidden from us from God.

I think I'm done with God. I have to find some other purpose in my life outside of it.

Hmmmm, you'd better hope that God is not done with you. The depth of your ignorance is breathtaking. You are blaming God for the ills that mankind, in league with Satan, have produced all on their own. Let's play God for a moment. You create someone in your image. You give him authority over the whole of your created earth, a paradise. You give him free will, the right to choose his own destiny. You give him one prohibition. Just one. Then you let him go and enjoy the wonders of the earth with the woman that you formed just for him.

The man that you created runs into your arch-enemy. This enemy convinces your man that he's be better off serving the enemy. Man therefore becomes God's enemy.

I thought about this long and hard. Let's see God's options. Destroy Adam and Eve and start again? That was my idea. But that means Satan wins. Or maybe you save Adam from starvation by showing him how to live in what has become a hostile world. You kill an animal to provide clothing for Adam and Eve. You let them live on. Are they grateful? No. Over the centuries, God remains patient, providing food, water and everything that mankind needs to survive and thrive. In the meantime, mankind gets harder, colder, more wicked and violent. Don't blame God.

If God was to rid the world of evil, that would include you. He chose not to. Instead He chose to offer a way out of the mess that man has created for Himself. That meant taking a break from all the privileges and rights that He had as God and putting on human form. In human form, God in the flesh died for everyone. He was not obliged to. He did it because He loves you. The one you are describing is Satan. You are completely deluded, just as Eve was. It does not have to be that way. One day, one way or another, your life will be over. Either through death of Jesus' return. You will have eternity to regret your folly. Your life holds by a thread. You would be wise to show some respect for the One who holds the knife.

 

[Silverback]

I need to confess something out in the open, something that has been bubbling within me for a while, and I need to just open up and be perfectly honest - I wonder how in the hell can God be Love, and how God can be anything else but a monster.


So okay, God has allowed all these various religions to exist for hundreds of years since the advent of Christianity. He has allowed these religions which all create deep-rooted psychological attachments and nostalgia, which grandparents always past down to there kids. He doesn't stop these religions, He doesn't destroy these religions, He allows them to grow and grow. Sunni Islam, Shia Islam, Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, Assyrian Church of the East. In fact, He makes it an absolute pain in the behind to convert from one of these religions to another due to these deep-rooted psychological attachments, which every single human being will be biased towards,

And yet, He has just hidden the magic ball underneath an inconspicuous cup. Pick the wrong one, feel free to burn for all eternity forever without a second chance. Pick the right one, and you get to party with God forever.

Your choice. You can't possibly know which one is the right one, you just have to go with your gut and hopefully you don't burn for all eternity forever.


On top of that, He has permitted a Creation narrative to be taught that makes no sense whatsoever. Were there dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden? Did the T-Rex eat fruit? How the hell was the world flooded for 40 days, with all of humanity repopulating from 3 people at an incredibly fast rate, with at least two of every single animal fitting on the Ark and somehow being fed without people dying of dysentery from all the crap? Why is the Old Testament rooted in a Geocentric, Flat-Earth cosmology? What do we make of the objective, quantifiable data that clearly show ape-like creatures slowly turning into human-like creatures over time? Yet somehow, the rational human being is supposed to reconcile these contradictions.


And even then, He intentionally cripples each of these religions without getting rid of them, which all tell you that outside of their religion there is no salvation, in different ways. In Roman Catholicism, He has effectively destroyed the beauty that it once espoused, destroyed the spirituality, rendered any objective morality or dogma completely meaningless and subjective.

There was an event which occurred at Vatican II - Cardinal Ottiovani, an old man, who was blind, went on stage with a mic, and was warning the other Cardinals about compromising tradition. The Council Fathers turned off his mic and began laughing at him when they couldn't hear him. He began to cry.

This whole juvenile immaturity of condescending towards tradition IS Roman Catholicism now. Despite existing for 1960 years without a hitch in terms of moral and liturgical tradition, NOW He laughs and mocks all of it and allows all those who live within it to lose Faith. It's juvenility and relativism now, run by illogical and lawless people.

And it's captain is one of the most narcisstic pieces of filth I've ever seen. Holy crap, wearing a cassock renders you a "woman priest." And keep letting all those priests sexually assault those kids, because why not.


Orthodoxy? He has divided it up. All it is now is a propaganda outlet for Nationalism, and nothing more. Being Holy for the Orthodox is being Nationalistic. Nothing better than those racist Jews, who felt they were racially superior because they were God's chosen people. And it's all about being an ethnic clique, nothing more. Very few, like the very few in Roman Catholicism who actually view Tradition as important, actually see Orthodoxy as something more. In fact, I will say that many people in my first Orthodox parish hated me because I actually liked Orthodoxy's old antiquated morality and doctrines, and wanted something more than just being Russian or Greek.


And we can't just throw up our hands and say a particular institution doesn't matter, and all that matters is Christ. What do we know what Christ taught? What do we know what He would approve? The Bible itself is littered with contradictions. God at one point commands people to be stoned, the next He condemns stoning. God commands the Israelites to slaughter the Canaanites, then He tells us those who live by the sword die by the sword. One instance money is a blessing, the next it's the source of all evil. One instance there is no High Priest but Christ, the next those who partake of the Sacrifice unworthily are damned. One moment people are baptizing in the name of Jesus, the next they are baptized in the name of the Trinity. Good luck figuring out morality from the Bible alone! Or Who Christ was! Or what Salvation means!

Who knows? Maybe I'm a sinner for opposing abortion, maybe I'm a sinner for supporting it. Maybe I'm a sinner for forbidding my children from masturbation, maybe I'm a sinner for allowing it. Maybe I'm a sinner for supporting a war for democracy, maybe I'm a sinner for being against it. Maybe I'm a sinner for opposing homosexuality and transgenderism, maybe I'm a sinner for supporting it.

And that's assuming the Bible's even right. Maybe the Bible is a false document that we can't trust at all.


So out all of these facts, that God has allowed religions post Christianity to exist and allowed them to create deep psychological biases that cloud are subjective judgment, that it's logically impossible to know which one is objectively the True One, that God has forced a Creation narrative that is irreconcilable with common sense, and that God has crippled all of these religions in various ways, and that outside of these religions, it's logically impossible to know what true morality and belief is, and that if we are wrong on these things, we burn for all eternity forever, can we all agree that God is a psychopathic monster?

So what, despite being Omniscient and therefore knowing what all physical phenomena feels like as it pertains to everything, He actually suffered for a small period of time. Why should this monster be worthy of our worship?

Maybe Satan saw something in God that we don't, and that information is hidden from us from God.

I think I'm done with God. I have to find some other purpose in my life outside of it.

I hope you find peace...it doesn't seem to that you have apostisized, because you still seem to care, an apostate makes a decision to leave his faith and never looks back, and never returns, and could care less.

 

[TheLostCoin]

My comment might be rude but if I need to do that to warn my fellow zoomers of their mistakes then I will have to.

No problem. I've been much ruder.

You want God to be the big daddy to control everything people do. That's not how things work.

That's actually the opposite of what I'm complaining about. I feel like all of these factors hinder free will. There isn't a clear, objective answer of what the True, or Truest, form of Christianity is, and even if there was, why would God allow deep psychological bias and attachment such that it would be near impossible for people to find it unless they got lucky? And why would God restrict salvation to just one belief system that people can't figure out anyways?

You may think that it's Orthodoxy as of right now, and God bless you for that - but everyone has had the same emotions you have towards other Christian denominations, and sooner or later if you study Church history or theology, you'll start to see the answer is way murkier than it appears to be. Wait till you discover that the vestments of the Priest are derivatives of the ordinary dress of the Roman Empire, with the exception of the stole; and that Pope Saint Damasus basically said that Bishops who are differentiated significantly by dress from the laypeople are Paganizing Christianity.

Let's say you live a life without God? What's next? What's your goal in life? What's your philosophy and why should we listen to it?

Buddhism? I don't know.

 

[Phronema]

I need to confess something out in the open, something that has been bubbling within me for a while, and I need to just open up and be perfectly honest - I wonder how in the hell can God be Love, and how God can be anything else but a monster.


So okay, God has allowed all these various religions to exist for hundreds of years since the advent of Christianity. He has allowed these religions which all create deep-rooted psychological attachments and nostalgia, which grandparents always past down to there kids. He doesn't stop these religions, He doesn't destroy these religions, He allows them to grow and grow. Sunni Islam, Shia Islam, Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, Assyrian Church of the East. In fact, He makes it an absolute pain in the behind to convert from one of these religions to another due to these deep-rooted psychological attachments, which every single human being will be biased towards,

And yet, He has just hidden the magic ball underneath an inconspicuous cup. Pick the wrong one, feel free to burn for all eternity forever without a second chance. Pick the right one, and you get to party with God forever.

Your choice. You can't possibly know which one is the right one, you just have to go with your gut and hopefully you don't burn for all eternity forever.


On top of that, He has permitted a Creation narrative to be taught that makes no sense whatsoever. Were there dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden? Did the T-Rex eat fruit? How the hell was the world flooded for 40 days, with all of humanity repopulating from 3 people at an incredibly fast rate, with at least two of every single animal fitting on the Ark and somehow being fed without people dying of dysentery from all the crap? Why is the Old Testament rooted in a Geocentric, Flat-Earth cosmology? What do we make of the objective, quantifiable data that clearly show ape-like creatures slowly turning into human-like creatures over time? Yet somehow, the rational human being is supposed to reconcile these contradictions.


And even then, He intentionally cripples each of these religions without getting rid of them, which all tell you that outside of their religion there is no salvation, in different ways. In Roman Catholicism, He has effectively destroyed the beauty that it once espoused, destroyed the spirituality, rendered any objective morality or dogma completely meaningless and subjective.

There was an event which occurred at Vatican II - Cardinal Ottiovani, an old man, who was blind, went on stage with a mic, and was warning the other Cardinals about compromising tradition. The Council Fathers turned off his mic and began laughing at him when they couldn't hear him. He began to cry.

This whole juvenile immaturity of condescending towards tradition IS Roman Catholicism now. Despite existing for 1960 years without a hitch in terms of moral and liturgical tradition, NOW He laughs and mocks all of it and allows all those who live within it to lose Faith. It's juvenility and relativism now, run by illogical and lawless people.

And it's captain is one of the most narcisstic pieces of filth I've ever seen. Holy crap, wearing a cassock renders you a "woman priest." And keep letting all those priests sexually assault those kids, because why not.


Orthodoxy? He has divided it up. All it is now is a propaganda outlet for Nationalism, and nothing more. Being Holy for the Orthodox is being Nationalistic. Nothing better than those racist Jews, who felt they were racially superior because they were God's chosen people. And it's all about being an ethnic clique, nothing more. Very few, like the very few in Roman Catholicism who actually view Tradition as important, actually see Orthodoxy as something more. In fact, I will say that many people in my first Orthodox parish hated me because I actually liked Orthodoxy's old antiquated morality and doctrines, and wanted something more than just being Russian or Greek.


And we can't just throw up our hands and say a particular institution doesn't matter, and all that matters is Christ. What do we know what Christ taught? What do we know what He would approve? The Bible itself is littered with contradictions. God at one point commands people to be stoned, the next He condemns stoning. God commands the Israelites to slaughter the Canaanites, then He tells us those who live by the sword die by the sword. One instance money is a blessing, the next it's the source of all evil. One instance there is no High Priest but Christ, the next those who partake of the Sacrifice unworthily are damned. One moment people are baptizing in the name of Jesus, the next they are baptized in the name of the Trinity. Good luck figuring out morality from the Bible alone! Or Who Christ was! Or what Salvation means!

Who knows? Maybe I'm a sinner for opposing abortion, maybe I'm a sinner for supporting it. Maybe I'm a sinner for forbidding my children from masturbation, maybe I'm a sinner for allowing it. Maybe I'm a sinner for supporting a war for democracy, maybe I'm a sinner for being against it. Maybe I'm a sinner for opposing homosexuality and transgenderism, maybe I'm a sinner for supporting it.

And that's assuming the Bible's even right. Maybe the Bible is a false document that we can't trust at all.


So out all of these facts, that God has allowed religions post Christianity to exist and allowed them to create deep psychological biases that cloud are subjective judgment, that it's logically impossible to know which one is objectively the True One, that God has forced a Creation narrative that is irreconcilable with common sense, and that God has crippled all of these religions in various ways, and that outside of these religions, it's logically impossible to know what true morality and belief is, and that if we are wrong on these things, we burn for all eternity forever, can we all agree that God is a psychopathic monster?

So what, despite being Omniscient and therefore knowing what all physical phenomena feels like as it pertains to everything, He actually suffered for a small period of time. Why should this monster be worthy of our worship?

Maybe Satan saw something in God that we don't, and that information is hidden from us from God.

I think I'm done with God. I have to find some other purpose in my life outside of it.

So, the God of our creation gave His only begotten Son for our salvation, and that's "mean" to you?

He gave us the creation of life, and the ability to give him thanks, and yet He is "mean" to you?

He gave us the way to life during his Sermon on the Mount, and told us how to conduct ourselves in this life, and yet he is "mean" to you?

He offers us everlasting grace, and forgiveness?

The things that you list outside of Christianity exist because humans have free will, and they were created by other err'ing humans. If we choose to accept them then that's on us, not on Him.

Brother, all that we need is in front of us, we just need to go and find it.

 

[TheLostCoin]

So, the God of our creation gave His only begotten Son for our salvation, and that's "mean" to you?

He gave us the creation of life, and the ability to give him thanks, and yet He is "mean" to you?

He gave us the way to life during his Sermon on the Mount, and told us how to conduct ourselves in this life, and yet he is "mean" to you?

He offers us everlasting grace, and forgiveness?

The things that you list outside of Christianity exist because humans have free will, and they were created by other err'ing humans. If we choose to accept them then that's on us, not on Him.

Brother, all that we need is in front of us, we just need to go and find it.

He gives us all of that . . . if you pick the right religion. Otherwise, you are a heretic and a schismatic who is going to burn in hell forever. Be careful that you pick the right one, and make sure you "find" the right one!

 

[Phronema]

He gives us all of that . . . if you pick the right religion. Otherwise, you are a heretic and a schismatic who is going to burn in hell forever. Be careful that you pick the right one, and make sure you "find" the right one!

We've lived different lives you and I, I suppose. I ended up in Turkey, in Cappadocia, in the caves that still had the Pantokrator in them. Don't worry He'll lead you to Him in some other way. Everything we do, and experience is His grace.

 

[ArmyMatt]

He gives us all of that . . . if you pick the right religion. Otherwise, you are a heretic and a schismatic who is going to burn in hell forever. Be careful that you pick the right one, and make sure you "find" the right one!

that's not how it works, that's not what we teach, that's not what the Bible teaches.

 

[All4Christ]

Orthodoxy? He has divided it up. All it is now is a propaganda outlet for Nationalism, and nothing more. Being Holy for the Orthodox is being Nationalistic. Nothing better than those racist Jews, who felt they were racially superior because they were God's chosen people. And it's all about being an ethnic clique, nothing more. Very few, like the very few in Roman Catholicism who actually view Tradition as important, actually see Orthodoxy as something more. In fact, I will say that many people in my first Orthodox parish hated me because I actually liked Orthodoxy's old antiquated morality and doctrines, and wanted something more than just being Russian or Greek.

This is false. If the parish you were a part of was like that, then try a different parish, as that is not anything like the experience I have had across multiple parishes and in “real life” Orthodoxy. It’s not an ethnic clique. In fact, where I am, there really isn’t a specific ethnic group to be a part of. A mouthpiece for nationalism? Not in my experience. If you look online, you probably will see that more than real life.

All that said, I’m sorry to hear that this is your experience so far. Prayers for you.

 

[paul1149]

He gives us all of that . . . if you pick the right religion. Otherwise, you are a heretic and a schismatic who is going to burn in hell forever. Be careful that you pick the right one, and make sure you "find" the right one!

Jhn 4:21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.​

God is not about religion. You are suffering as one who has been victimized by the doctrines of man. God is far greater than you understand Him. Our moral facility is but a reflection of His, and while His is perfect, ours is subject to error due to lack of complete information. You can trust God's judgment more than your own, more than your own understanding of religious doctrine. Salvation is more than religious labels and is not dependent on them.

But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. - Jhn 6:68 NKJV​

When you come onto spiritual difficulty, the answer is to seek the Lord, not to run from Him. It may take time. It will take trust. But you will get the answer you need.

 

[Lukaris]

We are all accountable in our conduct and ( I believe) God will not forsake anyone who strives to love their neighbor & live by the golden rule ( Ezekiel 18:4-9, Psalms 15, Romans 2, Luke 10:25-37, John 5:22-30 etc.).


The commandments are the core of us living by the will of God.
I do not claim to adequately understand God as revealed in the Old vs New Testaments but I take His word by His commandments and He took everything to the Cross. Despite the wreckage of human history the will of the Lord is clear (see Luke 9:52-56).

 

[~Anastasia~]

Lord have mercy. Prayers for you.

You bring up so many things that need to be dealt with. As an overview, I can only say that it looks like you've bought in to some very wrong thinking.

Just one example, I found it in some places that seem to promote the idea that salvation consists in choosing the "right Truth" and it did seem almost like a game of chance at that point - but that's NOT where our salvation lies. Salvation isn't going to be a final exam with points given for filling in the right doctrines. The right doctrines - depending on which ones we are talking about - certainly help. But salvation consists in knowing and trusting God and having a relationship with Him, looking to Him. We do this in many ways. But you are angry at God in supposing He set up a particular paradigm - which is a lie.

Forgive me, but I would be VERY cautious if I were you in listening to thoughts. Whose thoughts are they? Do you really know? If you have built up these accusatory walls against God, causing you to make Him into a monster in your mind ... well, that tends to have a particular source, regardless of who it might filter through in the meantime.

So much needs to be said. Some parishes/Orthodox people are not good to look toward. If it becomes like you say, I hope you can go elsewhere. You're right, it shouldn't be like that. But man will always fail, here and there, because they are men. That shouldn't drive you away from God. If they were the ones who are like God, it wouldn't be that way. Men can point us to God. But if they get in the way, we shouldn't allow them to prevent us.

So much more needs to be said. I just want to say that it brought tears to my eyes, the story of the old man who was mocked. But that is not a reflection on God to me.

Prayers for you. I've been praying for you off and on because of the forum for a long time. I hope you find what you need in your struggle.

God DOES want everyone to be saved. And provides much for us in that process, sometimes we learn to recognize it. And sometimes it is through surprising means.

I need to confess something out in the open, something that has been bubbling within me for a while, and I need to just open up and be perfectly honest - I wonder how in the hell can God be Love, and how God can be anything else but a monster.


So okay, God has allowed all these various religions to exist for hundreds of years since the advent of Christianity. He has allowed these religions which all create deep-rooted psychological attachments and nostalgia, which grandparents always past down to there kids. He doesn't stop these religions, He doesn't destroy these religions, He allows them to grow and grow. Sunni Islam, Shia Islam, Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, Assyrian Church of the East. In fact, He makes it an absolute pain in the behind to convert from one of these religions to another due to these deep-rooted psychological attachments, which every single human being will be biased towards,

And yet, He has just hidden the magic ball underneath an inconspicuous cup. Pick the wrong one, feel free to burn for all eternity forever without a second chance. Pick the right one, and you get to party with God forever.

Your choice. You can't possibly know which one is the right one, you just have to go with your gut and hopefully you don't burn for all eternity forever.


On top of that, He has permitted a Creation narrative to be taught that makes no sense whatsoever. Were there dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden? Did the T-Rex eat fruit? How the hell was the world flooded for 40 days, with all of humanity repopulating from 3 people at an incredibly fast rate, with at least two of every single animal fitting on the Ark and somehow being fed without people dying of dysentery from all the crap? Why is the Old Testament rooted in a Geocentric, Flat-Earth cosmology? What do we make of the objective, quantifiable data that clearly show ape-like creatures slowly turning into human-like creatures over time? Yet somehow, the rational human being is supposed to reconcile these contradictions.


And even then, He intentionally cripples each of these religions without getting rid of them, which all tell you that outside of their religion there is no salvation, in different ways. In Roman Catholicism, He has effectively destroyed the beauty that it once espoused, destroyed the spirituality, rendered any objective morality or dogma completely meaningless and subjective.

There was an event which occurred at Vatican II - Cardinal Ottiovani, an old man, who was blind, went on stage with a mic, and was warning the other Cardinals about compromising tradition. The Council Fathers turned off his mic and began laughing at him when they couldn't hear him. He began to cry.

This whole juvenile immaturity of condescending towards tradition IS Roman Catholicism now. Despite existing for 1960 years without a hitch in terms of moral and liturgical tradition, NOW He laughs and mocks all of it and allows all those who live within it to lose Faith. It's juvenility and relativism now, run by illogical and lawless people.

And it's captain is one of the most narcisstic pieces of filth I've ever seen. Holy crap, wearing a cassock renders you a "woman priest." And keep letting all those priests sexually assault those kids, because why not.


Orthodoxy? He has divided it up. All it is now is a propaganda outlet for Nationalism, and nothing more. Being Holy for the Orthodox is being Nationalistic. Nothing better than those racist Jews, who felt they were racially superior because they were God's chosen people. And it's all about being an ethnic clique, nothing more. Very few, like the very few in Roman Catholicism who actually view Tradition as important, actually see Orthodoxy as something more. In fact, I will say that many people in my first Orthodox parish hated me because I actually liked Orthodoxy's old antiquated morality and doctrines, and wanted something more than just being Russian or Greek.


And we can't just throw up our hands and say a particular institution doesn't matter, and all that matters is Christ. What do we know what Christ taught? What do we know what He would approve? The Bible itself is littered with contradictions. God at one point commands people to be stoned, the next He condemns stoning. God commands the Israelites to slaughter the Canaanites, then He tells us those who live by the sword die by the sword. One instance money is a blessing, the next it's the source of all evil. One instance there is no High Priest but Christ, the next those who partake of the Sacrifice unworthily are damned. One moment people are baptizing in the name of Jesus, the next they are baptized in the name of the Trinity. Good luck figuring out morality from the Bible alone! Or Who Christ was! Or what Salvation means!

Who knows? Maybe I'm a sinner for opposing abortion, maybe I'm a sinner for supporting it. Maybe I'm a sinner for forbidding my children from masturbation, maybe I'm a sinner for allowing it. Maybe I'm a sinner for supporting a war for democracy, maybe I'm a sinner for being against it. Maybe I'm a sinner for opposing homosexuality and transgenderism, maybe I'm a sinner for supporting it.

And that's assuming the Bible's even right. Maybe the Bible is a false document that we can't trust at all.


So out all of these facts, that God has allowed religions post Christianity to exist and allowed them to create deep psychological biases that cloud are subjective judgment, that it's logically impossible to know which one is objectively the True One, that God has forced a Creation narrative that is irreconcilable with common sense, and that God has crippled all of these religions in various ways, and that outside of these religions, it's logically impossible to know what true morality and belief is, and that if we are wrong on these things, we burn for all eternity forever, can we all agree that God is a psychopathic monster?

So what, despite being Omniscient and therefore knowing what all physical phenomena feels like as it pertains to everything, He actually suffered for a small period of time. Why should this monster be worthy of our worship?

Maybe Satan saw something in God that we don't, and that information is hidden from us from God.

I think I'm done with God. I have to find some other purpose in my life outside of it.

 

[Not David]

No problem. I've been much ruder.



That's actually the opposite of what I'm complaining about. I feel like all of these factors hinder free will. There isn't a clear, objective answer of what the True, or Truest, form of Christianity is, and even if there was, why would God allow deep psychological bias and attachment such that it would be near impossible for people to find it unless they got lucky? And why would God restrict salvation to just one belief system that people can't figure out anyways?

You may think that it's Orthodoxy as of right now, and God bless you for that - but everyone has had the same emotions you have towards other Christian denominations, and sooner or later if you study Church history or theology, you'll start to see the answer is way murkier than it appears to be. Wait till you discover that the vestments of the Priest are derivatives of the ordinary dress of the Roman Empire, with the exception of the stole; and that Pope Saint Damasus basically said that Bishops who are differentiated significantly by dress from the laypeople are Paganizing Christianity.



Buddhism? I don't know.

You talk about how God allows "deep psychological damage" instead of wondering why men decided to get away from God.

I don't know why there might be some contradictions but at least I try to look for the answer. You have created dramatic posts saying how Orthodoxy tricked you but people here and Fr. Matt have debunked you.

Also why Buddhism? Because of hipsters? You talk bad about nationalism yet the Dalai Lama said “Europe belongs to the Europeans and that “they [the refugees]ultimately should rebuild their own country”.

 

[TheLostCoin]

that's not how it works, that's not what we teach, that's not what the Bible teaches.

If I convert to Lutheranism and I do my best to obey that authority, try to break free from my sins, and study the Bible, will I be saved?

 

[TheLostCoin]

You talk about how God allows "deep psychological damage" instead of wondering why men decided to get away from God.

This is the paradox. Apparently God guides the entire world for reasons unknown to us. He Wills everything that in actuality happens, even if it's done under the conspicuousness of Free Will.

Say what you "will," but even though the Israelites consciously chose to ally Egypt and wage war against Babylon against the commands of God, leading to the sacking of Jerusalem, destruction of the Temple, the massacres of the Israelites, and the exile of the Remnant, ALL of this was done by God's Will.

What Orthodox wouldn't say that the defeat of Arianism, Nestorianism, Iconoclasm was all God's Will? What Orthodox wouldn't say that the indefectibility of the Church isn't God's Will? What Orthodox wouldn't say the failure of the Ecumenical Council of Florence was God's Will?

Regardless if the current situation was not caused directly by God but caused by men, God still ultimately willed it, and wanted the circumstances here, but these circumstances seem intuitively contradictory to God's omnibenevolence. Why would God allow our fallen nature extend to the point that our own psychology prevents us from being able to willingly search for Truth, and why would God allow the Truth to be hidden under a blanket that nobody can find, with the mere potentiality of damnation - infinite pain and suffering - as a result of pure chance based on whether one has psychological attachment to the correct religion, or if one by arbitrary chance picks up the blanket and finds the lamp?

I don't know why there might be some contradictions but at least I try to look for the answer. You have created dramatic posts saying how Orthodoxy tricked you but people here and Fr. Matt have debunked you.

And that's the problem. St. Francis of Assisi assuredly tried his best, but apparently he was a victim of prelest and delusion according to at least one Orthodox Saint and several honorable Orthodox theologians. And St. Mark of Ephesus tried his best, but for Catholics, he was the heretic that ruined everything.

Also why Buddhism? Because of hipsters? You talk bad about nationalism yet the Dalai Lama said “Europe belongs to the Europeans and that “they [the refugees]ultimately should rebuild their own country”.

Nope. I have no qualms of sharing how I really feel about hipsters and New-Agers. Degenerates.

Buddhism rejects the conception of a deity, believing it's an unhealthy attachment to one's self - an unhealthy spiritual attachment, using analogous terminology, and prevents liberation from the cycle of death and reincarnation. It's a religion with wisdom, asceticism, ritual, and parables that differ from Monotheistic religions because of their rejection of an Omnipotent Deity.

And perhaps I shouldn't have used nationalism. How about "indirect Ethno-Phyletism," because that's what I really meant.

 

[Not David]

This is the paradox. Apparently God guides the entire world for reasons unknown to us. He Wills everything that in actuality happens, even if it's done under the conspicuousness of Free Will.

Say what you "will," but even though the Israelites consciously chose to ally Egypt and wage war against Babylon against the commands of God, leading to the sacking of Jerusalem, destruction of the Temple, the massacres of the Israelites, and the exile of the Remnant, ALL of this was done by God's Will.

What Orthodox wouldn't say that the defeat of Arianism, Nestorianism, Iconoclasm was all God's Will? What Orthodox wouldn't say that the indefectibility of the Church isn't God's Will? What Orthodox wouldn't say the failure of the Ecumenical Council of Florence was God's Will?

Regardless if the current situation was not caused directly by God but caused by men, God still ultimately willed it, and wanted the circumstances here, but these circumstances seem intuitively contradictory to God's omnibenevolence. Why would God allow our fallen nature extend to the point that our own psychology prevents us from being able to willingly search for Truth, and why would God allow the Truth to be hidden under a blanket that nobody can find, with the mere potentiality of damnation - infinite pain and suffering - as a result of pure chance based on whether one has psychological attachment to the correct religion, or if one by arbitrary chance picks up the blanket and finds the lamp?


And that's the problem. St. Francis of Assisi assuredly tried his best, but apparently he was a victim of prelest and delusion according to at least one Orthodox Saint and several honorable Orthodox theologians. And St. Mark of Ephesus tried his best, but for Catholics, he was the heretic that ruined everything.


Nope. I have no qualms of sharing how I really feel about hipsters and New-Agers. Degenerates.

Buddhism rejects the conception of a deity, believing it's an unhealthy attachment to one's self - an unhealthy spiritual attachment, using analogous terminology, and prevents liberation from the cycle of death and reincarnation. It's a religion with wisdom, asceticism, ritual, and parables that differ from Monotheistic religions because of their rejection of an Omnipotent Deity.

And perhaps I shouldn't have used nationalism. How about "indirect Ethno-Phyletism," because that's what I really meant.

Yes, it is God's will. It is difficult to understand why God does what He does but compared to our limited understanding it is silly.

So it is only for God to judge salvation depending on what Francis of Assisi did but if you try your best when you are in error, it is noble but still in error. You also ignored my criticism of your overreaction to you trying to understand some topics

I don't see to get the idea of Buddhism and suffering but if you think people of Buddhist nations don't get into conflict with each other, you are wrong.

 

[AMM]

Would you be interested in an article about an orthodox monk who was also a Buddhist and Lutheran at one point? I found it pretty interesting when I came across it a while back since I was also interested in Buddhism once