I posted this in Persecuted Christians but then saw Introduce Yourself (I'm a newbie)

[discombobulated1]

Actually no. Lefebvre, for example, taught against Catholic teaching that had been established under previous popes. Many others over the centuries have claimed the Catholic Church is not the true Church, that some other individuals possessed the true church.

I have read many books on Lefebvre, written by him or someone who knew him. I never saw that he violated any Catholic principle.

You need to show where he did, but I doubt you can.

Jesus has not, as some Sedes would have us believe, abandoned the novus ordo Church. He said he would never abandon us. However, that does not mean that the last 6 popes have been Catholic. They have not.

 

[jas3]

I have read many books on Lefebvre, written by him or someone who knew him. I never saw that he violated any Catholic principle.

You need to show where he did, but I doubt you can.

Jesus has not, as some Sedes would have us believe, abandoned the novus ordo Church. He said he would never abandon us. However, that does not mean that the last 6 popes have been Catholic. They have not.

I'm interested in a frank discussion of the position of the SSPX as well, but wouldn't this be better suited to OBOB, denomination-specific theology, or traditional theology than the introduction forum?

 

[discombobulated1]

I'm interested in a frank discussion of the position of the SSPX as well, but wouldn't this be better suited to OBOB, denomination-specific theology, or traditional theology than the introduction forum?

nice dodge. Where is the info about Lefebvre doing something un-Catholic?

I hope you are not like some I've encountered on the net who just say any old thing because it seems to be true or whatever....

 

[jas3]

nice dodge. Where is the info about Lefebvre doing something un-Catholic?

I hope you are not like some I've encountered on the net who just say any old thing because it seems to be true or whatever....

I'm not the person you were responding to. I have a lot of respect for Archbishop Lefebvre and don't know of anything he taught that was opposed to Catholic teaching.

 

[Valletta]

I'm not the person you were responding to. I have a lot of respect for Archbishop Lefebvre and don't know of anything he taught that was opposed to Catholic teaching.

The Congregation of Bishops and the pope sadly decided excommunication was warranted. It was much more about defiance of the Church rather than any particular theological opinion. Peter and the other Apostles and most of the popes and bishops since have been able to discuss and work out differences and stay together. Very sad.

 

[jas3]

The Congregation of Bishops and the pope sadly decided excommunication was warranted.

In their decree they announced that he had incurred latae sententiae excommunication, i.e. the Congregation wasn't executing a ferendae sententiae or active excommunication, and they could simply be wrong about that.

It was much more about defiance of the Church rather than any particular theological opinion.

I would agree, but you did say that he "taught against Catholic teaching that had been established under previous popes."

Anyway, I'm happy to continue this discussion in the appropriate subforum. As the "Introduce Yourself" statement of purpose says, "serious discussions go to other areas of the forum."

 

[discombobulated1]

I'm not the person you were responding to. I have a lot of respect for Archbishop Lefebvre and don't know of anything he taught that was opposed to Catholic teaching.

I don't either. And it's a huge pet peeve of mine when people make some claim as though it is the absolute truth, but then give NO supporting information.

Oh, wait... Maybe I've done that myself before...

Never mind............

 

[discombobulated1]

The Congregation of Bishops and the pope sadly decided excommunication was warranted. It was much more about defiance of the Church rather than any particular theological opinion. Peter and the other Apostles and most of the popes and bishops since have been able to discuss and work out differences and stay together. Very sad.

Wait... Did I forget that Lefebvre was excommunicated?!

I know they were talking about that, but I didn't know or had forgotten if it actually happened.

The heretics are the ones who should be excommunicated! Lefebvre should have had an excommunication event.. IMO. Also, have u noticed how nearly all the post-1958 popes have been "canonized"? That tells you right there just how OFF the Vatican is and any "Catholic:" church that agrees w/ the Vatican.. I mean, get out of here! The last 6 popes taught that you don't need to be Catholic or even Christian to get to Heaven! [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].. (I may be somewhat exaggerating and paraphrasing a little too much.. but I really don't think I am)

 

[Valletta]

In their decree they announced that he had incurred latae sententiae excommunication, i.e. the Congregation wasn't executing a ferendae sententiae or active excommunication, and they could simply be wrong about that.

I would agree, but you did say that he "taught against Catholic teaching that had been established under previous popes."

Anyway, I'm happy to continue this discussion in the appropriate subforum. As the "Introduce Yourself" statement of purpose says, "serious discussions go to other areas of the forum."

This article might be of interest to you:

Archbishop Lefebvre and the Declaration on Religious Liberty | EWTN

EWTN is a global, Catholic Television, Catholic Radio, and Catholic News Network that provides catholic programming and news coverage from around the world.

www.ewtn.com

 

[discombobulated1]

This article might be of interest to you:

Archbishop Lefebvre and the Declaration on Religious Liberty | EWTN

EWTN is a global, Catholic Television, Catholic Radio, and Catholic News Network that provides catholic programming and news coverage from around the world.

www.ewtn.com

I should check out that site but I'm a little wary because EWTN doesn't seem like the place to go for information on what happened in the modern Catholic Church after 1958. I always had to go to other sources. I haven't watched EWTN in a long time, but did years ago. They never brought up the subject of Lefebvre (when I happened to be watching) --so there's that