I posted this in Persecuted Christians but then saw Introduce Yourself (I'm a newbie)

[discombobulated1]

I was raised Catholic, except that we were not devout. We went to Mass on Sunday and the rest of the week we lived like... everyone else in the secular world. So it was not surprising that I ended up not doing well, spiritually. I had a big conversion experience as a teen, but as the years went by and my family made it clear they were not with me spiritually, etc... I fell away from Jesus, although I continued to love Him "my way." So anyway, my life became a colossal mess of sin, and several times I felt like ending it all... LONG story. Then I had a 2nd conversion 20 some years ago, began going to Mass, which I had not done since a youth. It was a holy experience, met an awesome priest... and I began studying Catholicism, history/doctrine, etc. I agreed with all that the ancient Catholic Church taught, yet the CC stopped teaching a lot of that, more/less, due to the modernizations that happened @ Vatican II. I didn't study V2 until just a few years ago, and boy, was it a shocker! All Christians should study up on the late Catholic archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who disagreed heartily with V2. He wrote books on the disagreements and etc.. and I could find no argument w/ him. But then I moved on Sedevacantism and.. well, I couldn't disagree w/ them either, except for one thing. Basically, the Sedes say that Jesus cannot be found in the new church, as they call it, since they do not have a valid Eucharist. I disagreed once w/ a Sede on this because the awesome priest aforementioned had told me about the Real Presence and it was the most beautiful thing I'd ever experienced.. But the Sede said I was just imagining this Presence of Christ (in "new church") and just shut me out of his life completely--over THAT. So much for charity! I thought that was basically what Jesus focused on? If you can shut people out, stop communicating with them altogether, people who agree with you RE Jesus 99% of the time...(!). I mean, I don't get that.

So now I feel I am in this weird no-man's land. .. I have to say that I've had some very negative experiences in the "new church" also, problems that make that problem with the Sede (above) look like Heaven on Earth... SIGH. I can see why Jesus said that FEW find the narrow way to Heaven... It seems so many people are focused on religious beliefs and how right they are and everyone else therefore has to be totally wrong... rather than on what God requires of us.

 

[jas3]

Welcome! I can sympathize with this - I'm about halfway through Archbishop Lefebvre's I Accuse the Council! and despite its (in my opinion) bombastic title it's mostly just a record of the suggestions for edits that he and other bishops filed on the various schemas that were proposed at Vatican II, showing how they were contradictory to prior doctrine or at the very least dangerously ambiguous and obviously based on a modernist worldview (e.g. religious liberty being promoted on the basis of the "dignity of man" rather than the objective public good).

A lot of people shy away from talking about these issues, so it's good to see them mentioned. Looking forward to seeing you around the forums!

 

[discombobulated1]

Welcome! I can sympathize with this - I'm about halfway through Archbishop Lefebvre's I Accuse the Council! and despite its (in my opinion) bombastic title it's mostly just a record of the suggestions for edits that he and other bishops filed on the various schemas that were proposed at Vatican II, showing how they were contradictory to prior doctrine or at the very least dangerously ambiguous and obviously based on a modernist worldview (e.g. religious liberty being promoted on the basis of the "dignity of man" rather than the objective public good).

A lot of people shy away from talking about these issues, so it's good to see them mentioned. Looking forward to seeing you around the forums!

Wow... thanks for the welcome!
As stated, I feel .. not so much lonely, but very alone at times because I don't know anyone who feels the same way I do about all the weird changes in the CC. I can understand why people leave the CC. On the other hand, if they knew what I and others know, they would not leave.
I've tried to explain Catholicism to many people and they don't get it. Most of them don't even try, yet they think they understand it. Have you had this problem? And one reason I imply that a person can... how to say..? Over-study (maybe) things pertaining to the Faith is that I feel I may have been doing that (?). Well, there is grace to be had studying such things, but on the other hand.. well, words are inadequate.
Are you Catholic?

 

[Solo81]

Greetings and welcome. I'm new too.

May I ask what some of the negative experiences were? In an entity as enormous as the RCC, there are bound to be issues. The Church contains all types imaginable.

 

[discombobulated1]

Greetings and welcome. I'm new too.

May I ask what some of the negative experiences were? In an entity as enormous as the RCC, there are bound to be issues. The Church contains all types imaginable.

well, same Q

ARe you Catholic? I have to ask because most non Catholics do not understand me at all. I don't think anyone understands Catholics well unless he or she is Catholic, and even most Catholics don't seem to get me very well. I just like to know who I am speaking with (more/less). The short answer to your Q is that I've had weird experiences in confession to NO priests (rude, uncaring, even angry for no apparent reason). There is this other thing I went through with clergy but at this time, I don't feel like addressing that one. Suffice it to say that something is very wrong in what used to be the Church. It used to be united. Jesus prayed for unity, right b4 the Crucifixion-- John 17? One problem I have is my PTSD. I probably take offense too easily at times? There's that hyper-vigilance thing PTSD sufferers have, but still.. Rude is rude. I don't think it's too much to ask of a priest to be kind of caring toward parishioners?

 

[Solo81]

Yes, I'm RC, by the grace of God.

Re: Confession: would it be possible for you to go to the same priest whenever you need to confess? This is better for you, as the priest gets to know and understand you better. I've found that the Orders are better suited to this role than secular Priests. I'm fortunate that I've Dominican's and Franciscan's nearby.

 

[jas3]

I've tried to explain Catholicism to many people and they don't get it. Most of them don't even try, yet they think they understand it. Have you had this problem?

I have, in several different ways. Some people, especially Orthodox people I've talked to, are horrified at the new mass and things like Fiducia Supplicans, and write off Catholicism completely (not to say that they don't have problems with things prior to those, like the papacy, but those are what make them ask how anyone could consider Catholicism today). Others, especially online, are just there to make noise and call you a Mary-worshipper if you hold beliefs that even early Protestants did. I have noticed several here and they tend to be the loudest voices and have the most colored text in their posts, but I just add them to my "ignore" list so I don't have to see their posts.

And one reason I imply that a person can... how to say..? Over-study (maybe) things pertaining to the Faith is that I feel I may have been doing that (?). Well, there is grace to be had studying such things, but on the other hand.. well, words are inadequate.

Yes, I don't think it's always profitable or edifying to study everything. Some good examples of this are eschatology and demonology, both of which have led many people to some very unhealthy obsessions.

Are you Catholic?

No, I was Methodist but left once it became clear that the denomination was headed toward schism and the "traditional" denomination was busy virtue signaling about every current issue short of disordered sexuality. I originally was only looking at Protestant denominations, but realized that most of them had caved in to worldliness too. In that process I became convinced of the doctrines of the Real Presence and apostolic succession, so I've spent the past few years researching the apostolic churches.

Of those, I have decided against the Church of the East and the Oriental Orthodox, but am having a difficult time deciding between Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholicism. Thanks be to God, I have an SSPX chapel within driving distance so I'm able to attend a traditional mass when I do go to a Catholic church. I also attend an Orthodox church for the time being. It's a different kind of no-man's land than you described, but still an uncomfortable in-between state.

 

[discombobulated1]

Yes, I'm RC, by the grace of God.

Re: Confession: would it be possible for you to go to the same priest whenever you need to confess? This is better for you, as the priest gets to know and understand you better. I've found that the Orders are better suited to this role than secular Priests. I'm fortunate that I've Dominican's and Franciscan's nearby.

wow,. thanks for that idea, which who knows why I didn't think of that! I guess because there aren't too many orders where I am at. But it would probably be worth my while to check it out.

Are you novus ordo? Were you raised Catholic? I was but again we just went to Mass on Sunday and the rest of the week it was like... Jesus who?

And then when Jesus became important to me, my family started .. well, why do I want to say they started thinking I was retarded or something? LOL but kind of not funny. In any case, I gave all that weird stuff to Jesus, who can handle it better.

 

[discombobulated1]

I have, in several different ways. Some people, especially Orthodox people I've talked to, are horrified at the new mass and things like Fiducia Supplicans, and write off Catholicism completely (not to say that they don't have problems with things prior to those, like the papacy, but those are what make them ask how anyone could consider Catholicism today). Others, especially online, are just there to make noise and call you a Mary-worshipper if you hold beliefs that even early Protestants did. I have noticed several here and they tend to be the loudest voices and have the most colored text in their posts, but I just add them to my "ignore" list so I don't have to see their posts.

Yes, I don't think it's always profitable or edifying to study everything. Some good examples of this are eschatology and demonology, both of which have led many people to some very unhealthy obsessions.

No, I was Methodist but left once it became clear that the denomination was headed toward schism and the "traditional" denomination was busy virtue signaling about every current issue short of disordered sexuality. I originally was only looking at Protestant denominations, but realized that most of them had caved in to worldliness too. In that process I became convinced of the doctrines of the Real Presence and apostolic succession, so I've spent the past few years researching the apostolic churches.

Of those, I have decided against the Church of the East and the Oriental Orthodox, but am having a difficult time deciding between Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholicism. Thanks be to God, I have an SSPX chapel within driving distance so I'm able to attend a traditional mass when I do go to a Catholic church. I also attend an Orthodox church for the time being. It's a different kind of no-man's land than you described, but still an uncomfortable in-between state.

Thanks for all the info. I don't have a SSPX nearby like I did b4, but there is a Sedevacantist Church that is still kind of far but I can do it sometimes (if only I could have more faith... I mean, it is a hassle / expense to go there). Have you investigated the Sedes? I believe exactly as they do, that the last 6 popes have not been real popes. . etc. And yet, no one seems to have an answer as to what we are to do about that, if anything. I guess there isn't much "little people" can do. It seems that the novus ordo folks would have to surrender, have to admit that their church is not the true Catholic Church, and allow the Sedes to have the Vatican... I almost LOL at the mental image... but anyhow... sigh. Yeh... the term pops up once again: no man's land..

 

[Solo81]

wow,. thanks for that idea, which who knows why I didn't think of that! I guess because there aren't too many orders where I am at. But it would probably be worth my while to check it out.

Are you novus ordo? Were you raised Catholic? I was but again we just went to Mass on Sunday and the rest of the week it was like... Jesus who?

And then when Jesus became important to me, my family started .. well, why do I want to say they started thinking I was retarded or something? LOL but kind of not funny. In any case, I gave all that weird stuff to Jesus, who can handle it better.

Before you go trotting off to the various churches in search of a confessor, ask Jesus and the Holy Spirit to direct you to the priest they want you to visit. They already have the right man in mind for you.

Was raised culturally Catholic like everyone else where i live. Became a 'born again' RC some years ago.

I wouldn't describe myself as anything other than RC. Christ wants us to be one; not NO, SSPX, TLM, etc.

 

[jas3]

Have you investigated the Sedes? I believe exactly as they do, that the last 6 popes have not been real popes. . etc. And yet, no one seems to have an answer as to what we are to do about that, if anything. I guess there isn't much "little people" can do. It seems that the novus ordo folks would have to surrender, have to admit that their church is not the true Catholic Church, and allow the Sedes to have the Vatican... I almost LOL at the mental image... but anyhow... sigh. Yeh... the term pops up once again: no man's land..

I have looked into them a little, but like you said, the possibility of a restoration of the Church if sedevacantism is true seems too remote to me to be feasible. Yes, through God all things are possible, but the sedevacantist thesis is basically that the Church is in the worst crisis in all of history right now, much worse than the Arian crisis, and with no hope for an orthodox emperor to restore the true faith like there was back then. There is just no scenario that I can see where a billion people with no common authority figure except the man they see as the pope are going to accept that their bishops who were ordained in the new rite (i.e. the vast majority of them) weren't really ordained, their last several pope-saints weren't really popes or saints, and a bishop elected by a conclave of bishops they thought of for the better part of the last century were schismatics is actually the real pope. It would be like the Greek Orthodox church coming out and saying that it had been without grace for the past century and that the Genuine Orthodox were right all along.

And that aside, the nearest sede church is several hours away (and may not even exist! They're supposedly CMRI but CMRI doesn't list them on their map), enough to where I can't make that drive regularly.

 

[Michie]

I was raised Catholic, except that we were not devout. We went to Mass on Sunday and the rest of the week we lived like... everyone else in the secular world. So it was not surprising that I ended up not doing well, spiritually. I had a big conversion experience as a teen, but as the years went by and my family made it clear they were not with me spiritually, etc... I fell away from Jesus, although I continued to love Him "my way." So anyway, my life became a colossal mess of sin, and several times I felt like ending it all... LONG story. Then I had a 2nd conversion 20 some years ago, began going to Mass, which I had not done since a youth. It was a holy experience, met an awesome priest... and I began studying Catholicism, history/doctrine, etc. I agreed with all that the ancient Catholic Church taught, yet the CC stopped teaching a lot of that, more/less, due to the modernizations that happened @ Vatican II. I didn't study V2 until just a few years ago, and boy, was it a shocker! All Christians should study up on the late Catholic archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who disagreed heartily with V2. He wrote books on the disagreements and etc.. and I could find no argument w/ him. But then I moved on Sedevacantism and.. well, I couldn't disagree w/ them either, except for one thing. Basically, the Sedes say that Jesus cannot be found in the new church, as they call it, since they do not have a valid Eucharist. I disagreed once w/ a Sede on this because the awesome priest aforementioned had told me about the Real Presence and it was the most beautiful thing I'd ever experienced.. But the Sede said I was just imagining this Presence of Christ (in "new church") and just shut me out of his life completely--over THAT. So much for charity! I thought that was basically what Jesus focused on? If you can shut people out, stop communicating with them altogether, people who agree with you RE Jesus 99% of the time...(!). I mean, I don't get that.

So now I feel I am in this weird no-man's land. .. I have to say that I've had some very negative experiences in the "new church" also, problems that make that problem with the Sede (above) look like Heaven on Earth... SIGH. I can see why Jesus said that FEW find the narrow way to Heaven... It seems so many people are focused on religious beliefs and how right they are and everyone else therefore has to be totally wrong... rather than on what God requires of us.

Welcome to CF! Feel free to stop by the Catholic forum. Many there would be happy to discuss this with you. One Bread, One Body - Catholic

 

[Valletta]

I was raised Catholic, except that we were not devout. We went to Mass on Sunday and the rest of the week we lived like... everyone else in the secular world. So it was not surprising that I ended up not doing well, spiritually. I had a big conversion experience as a teen, but as the years went by and my family made it clear they were not with me spiritually, etc... I fell away from Jesus, although I continued to love Him "my way." So anyway, my life became a colossal mess of sin, and several times I felt like ending it all... LONG story. Then I had a 2nd conversion 20 some years ago, began going to Mass, which I had not done since a youth. It was a holy experience, met an awesome priest... and I began studying Catholicism, history/doctrine, etc. I agreed with all that the ancient Catholic Church taught, yet the CC stopped teaching a lot of that, more/less, due to the modernizations that happened @ Vatican II. I didn't study V2 until just a few years ago, and boy, was it a shocker! All Christians should study up on the late Catholic archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who disagreed heartily with V2. He wrote books on the disagreements and etc.. and I could find no argument w/ him. But then I moved on Sedevacantism and.. well, I couldn't disagree w/ them either, except for one thing. Basically, the Sedes say that Jesus cannot be found in the new church, as they call it, since they do not have a valid Eucharist. I disagreed once w/ a Sede on this because the awesome priest aforementioned had told me about the Real Presence and it was the most beautiful thing I'd ever experienced.. But the Sede said I was just imagining this Presence of Christ (in "new church") and just shut me out of his life completely--over THAT. So much for charity! I thought that was basically what Jesus focused on? If you can shut people out, stop communicating with them altogether, people who agree with you RE Jesus 99% of the time...(!). I mean, I don't get that.

So now I feel I am in this weird no-man's land. .. I have to say that I've had some very negative experiences in the "new church" also, problems that make that problem with the Sede (above) look like Heaven on Earth... SIGH. I can see why Jesus said that FEW find the narrow way to Heaven... It seems so many people are focused on religious beliefs and how right they are and everyone else therefore has to be totally wrong... rather than on what God requires of us.

Actually Vatican II was used as an excuse by many from the culture of the 1960s to try and change the Church to their liking. That is, they would claim Vatican II said this or that when it really did not. Catholic universities wanted to be like secular universities and they convinced bishops to not be on their boards, etc. Overall the faith was not taught like it had been taught, instead there was too much focus on promoting a feel good atmosphere. Many religious no longer dressed traditionally.

 

[Christoph Maria]

.

Welcome to Christian Forums!
_________________________________________________________


LORD, those who know you will trust in You.
You have never deserted those who look to You.
Psalms 9:10
_________________________________________

"Here is what I am commanding you to do:
Be strong and brave.
Do not be terrified.
Do not lose hope.
I am the LORD your God.
I will be with you everywhere you go."
Joshua 1:9
_________________________________________

"Judah, listen to me!
People of Jerusalem, listen to me!
Have faith in the LORD your God.
He'll take good care of you.
Have faith in his prophets.
Then you will have success."
2 Chronicles 20:20
_________________________________________

Some trust in chariots.
Some trust in horses.
But we trust in the LORD our God.
Psalms 20:7
_________________________________________



.
​

 

[discombobulated1]

Before you go trotting off to the various churches in search of a confessor, ask Jesus and the Holy Spirit to direct you to the priest they want you to visit. They already have the right man in mind for you.

Was raised culturally Catholic like everyone else where i live. Became a 'born again' RC some years ago.

I wouldn't describe myself as anything other than RC. Christ wants us to be one; not NO, SSPX, TLM, etc.

You and I have some things in common. I was raised CAtholic, but we were FAR from devout. Maybe my father just figured that it would be best to drag us all to Mass every Sunday, rather than... deal with his wild children in some other way. But it was not sufficient, as my life experiences prove in SPADES! It's a tragic story of epic proportions, if only to me and my loved ones. I thought about, still think about, writing a book, but it is such a long and strange story and I really don't have the resources to write such a book. I probably won't in the future either. Oh well.. I think people could learn volumes from my experiences, but very few will ever read anything I write, I'm sure.

In any case,I have a lot of other crosses also.. no idea where I will find the right person to lead me to the right confessor but I need to try... harder. Thanks again

Yes, about unity in the Church, lack thereof. It is not only sad, it is egregiously awful that we are divided this way. And it seems thedifferent sects don't like ea other one bit.. some are kind of nasty, snarky.. But anyhow... Jesus had a terrible Cross and we have to accept our own (like it or not)

 

[discombobulated1]

.

Welcome to Christian Forums!
_________________________________________________________


LORD, those who know you will trust in You.
You have never deserted those who look to You.
Psalms 9:10
_________________________________________

"Here is what I am commanding you to do:
Be strong and brave.
Do not be terrified.
Do not lose hope.
I am the LORD your God.
I will be with you everywhere you go."
Joshua 1:9

_________________________________________

​

Thanks for these uplifting scriptures

I used to be at this one forum which will go un-named but .. Wow, so much snark and malice! I couldn't take it. Even the Christians or professed Christians joined in with the "pagans" to just... rip people apart!

No wonder Jesus said that FEW find the Narrow Way to Heaven!

I pray for them, have vowed to pray even more often. I love the prayer Mary gave us at Fatima

"Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins
Save us from the fires of Hell
Lead all souls to Heaven
Especially those most in need of Your Mercy"



She asked us to offer all our sufferings for sinners on their way to Hell

One of the most awesome teachings of the Catholic Church

 

[discombobulated1]

Actually Vatican II was used as an excuse by many from the culture of the 1960s to try and change the Church to their liking. That is, they would claim Vatican II said this or that when it really did not. Catholic universities wanted to be like secular universities and they convinced bishops to not be on their boards, etc. Overall the faith was not taught like it had been taught, instead there was too much focus on promoting a feel good atmosphere. Many religious no longer dressed traditionally.

SO TRUE!

I remember going to catechism class, so called and all we ever did was sing (literally) Kumbaya! (LOL) and get pretty prayer cards. I loved the prayer cards but I didn't learn a thing about Catholic teachings/history and later on in life (far too much later) I studied it myself... What an eye opener that was! I especially learned a lot from archbishop Lafebvre who argued constantly with the V2 folks (yet politely, most of the time). Then I was led into the Sedevacantist camp and have NO argument with anything I've heard there, except that Sedes are always telling me that the Real Presence does not exist in the NO Churches. Well, I've been to a few that seemed to lack the RP, but there was this one which is now far away.. I could feel the Presence strongly there.

 

[Valletta]

SO TRUE!

I remember going to catechism class, so called and all we ever did was sing (literally) Kumbaya! (LOL) and get pretty prayer cards. I loved the prayer cards but I didn't learn a thing about Catholic teachings/history and later on in life (far too much later) I studied it myself... What an eye opener that was! I especially learned a lot from archbishop Lafebvre who argued constantly with the V2 folks (yet politely, most of the time). Then I was led into the Sedevacantist camp and have NO argument with anything I've heard there, except that Sedes are always telling me that the Real Presence does not exist in the NO Churches. Well, I've been to a few that seemed to lack the RP, but there was this one which is now far away.. I could feel the Presence strongly there.

There have been and are numerous problems within the Church. This should be expected, Jesus has not yet separated the wheat from the chaff.
Going against the Church and starting a different religion is not the answer. There is one true Church, and Jesus said:

“And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mt 16:18

Thus the bottom line is, like the saints, we must work within the Church.

 

[discombobulated1]

There have been and are numerous problems within the Church. This should be expected, Jesus has not yet separated the wheat from the chaff.
Going against the Church and starting a different religion is not the answer. There is one true Church, and Jesus said:

“And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mt 16:18

Thus the bottom line is, like the saints, we must work within the Church.

I agree but the Sedes and SSPX have not started another Church. They are keeping alive the True Church... The last 6 popes have been heretics, that is undeniable, at least to all of us who appreciate TRUTH. I have read up on this. A lot of Catholics have not.

They should.

 

[Valletta]

I agree but the Sedes and SSPX have not started another Church. They are keeping alive the True Church... The last 6 popes have been heretics, that is undeniable, at least to all of us who appreciate TRUTH. I have read up on this. A lot of Catholics have not.

They should.

Actually no. Lefebvre, for example, taught against Catholic teaching that had been established under previous popes. Many others over the centuries have claimed the Catholic Church is not the true Church, that some other individuals possessed the true church.