I Pierced My Ears

[Stryder06]

You saw someone chastising a woman in a Baptist church for wearing an inexpensive necklace? Does that make it right? You don't see the hypocracy and disconnect when men can wear $700 suits and Rolex's?

The rules must be different for Baptists where you live. I've attended a Baptist church here many times and seen prominant ladies wear necklaces and even earrings without censure.

Edit to add: To be fair, and since you asked, I shouldn't presume you understood my point. My point is that a man can spend hundreds and even thousands of dollars to try to impress onlookers and try to make himself look good and this is accepted in the Seventh Day Adventist church, while at the same time a lady is considered less than honorable if she wears a necklace that costs a mere pittance in order to make herself feel pretty and presentable. I question the rationale and integrity of this position. I hope this helps!

If it makes you feel better, our Pastor gave a sermon and made mention about fancy suits. It's really the same thing. It's no different than a woman who wouldn't wear jewelry, but opted to wear a $700 dress. The same principle applies, and it's that principle that I believe is being missed. We should be concerned about our inner man, not the outer man.

 

[III Angeli Nuntius]

...The same goes for fermented wine...

Also sin.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7579986/

 

[ricker]

If it makes you feel better, our Pastor gave a sermon and made mention about fancy suits. It's really the same thing. It's no different than a woman who wouldn't wear jewelry, but opted to wear a $700 dress. The same principle applies, and it's that principle that I believe is being missed. We should be concerned about our inner man, not the outer man.

There you go. I'm not saying a man can't dress nicely, or a woman can't dress nicely, The Bible doesn't condemn all jewelry for men or women, it just shows us what is really important.

I personally think sometimes a person needs to wear a somewhat expensive suit in business circles to be accepted in their career, but to spend tons of money to impress people is probably wrong.

That said I don't think it is up to us to judge a woman or man on what they wear. It isn't a sin to try to make oneself presentable to others. How appealing would our witness be as Christians if we always dressed in dirty sweats and t-shirts? (I hope I don't offend anyone here.)

 

[maco]

Also sin.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7579986/

Church leaders and mentors must not be given to much grape juice?

When the Bible speaks of a behavior in both a positive sense and a negative sense it's never about the behavior, but rather, it's about the motive behind the behavior and the guidelines set for the behavior.

Don't get drunk...

 

[Stryder06]

There you go. I'm not saying a man can't dress nicely, or a woman can't dress nicely, The Bible doesn't condemn all jewelry for men or women, it just shows us what is really important.

I personally think sometimes a person needs to wear a somewhat expensive suit in business circles to be accepted in their career, but to spend tons of money to impress people is probably wrong.

That said I don't think it is up to us to judge a woman or man on what they wear. It isn't a sin to try to make oneself presentable to others. How appealing would our witness be as Christians if we always dressed in dirty sweats and t-shirts? (I hope I don't offend anyone here.)

I was raised conservative. I personally believe that we ought not to wear jewelry. I've presented my reasoning for such before when speaking with my friends and family, and I try to leave the matter in God's hands. I believe that all who seek His will, will find it. We truly have to be willing to want that though. If God doesn't want His people wearing Jewelry, than His people ought to not wear it. The only way to know though is to study His word, learn the principles therein, and take the matter before Him in prayer.

 

[III Angeli Nuntius]

Church leaders and mentors must not be given to much grape juice?

When the Bible speaks of a behavior in both a positive sense and a negative sense it's never about the behavior, but rather, it's about the motive behind the behavior and the guidelines set for the behavior.

Don't get drunk...

No, it is do not drink alcohol.

Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Proverbs 20:1

Wine - a mocker
strong drink - raging

Nothing about "amount", but rather "content", iow it is inherently a "mocker" and "raging" and is deceptive.

It is obvious you did not read, otherwise such a statement would not have been made. However, if you do seek understanding, go back and read.

 

[maco]

No, it is do not drink alcohol.

Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Proverbs 20:1

Wine - a mocker
strong drink - raging

Nothing about "amount", but rather "content", iow it is inherently a "mocker" and "raging" and is deceptive.

It is obvious you did not read, otherwise such a statement would not have been made. However, if you do seek understanding, go back and read.

Did you know that sleep is sinful. You must hate it.

Proverbs 20:13 Do not love sleep, lest you come to poverty.

Sleep - poverty

It says nothing about amount.

 

[III Angeli Nuntius]

Did you know that sleep is sinful. You must hate it.

Proverbs 20:13 Do not love sleep, lest you come to poverty.

Sleep - poverty

It says nothing about amount.

It does not say "Do not sleep lest you come to poverty", and does not say sleep is sinful. It said the "love" of "sleep" will bring to "poverty".

Love not sleep, lest thou come to poverty; open thine eyes, [and] thou shalt be satisfied with bread. Proverbs 20:13

It is an "if" "then" boolean.

Consider further:

Just as Money is not the root of evil, but the "love of money" is the root of all evil.

Go back to Proverbs 20:1, it says nothing about "love". It simply and plainly gives the core definition of such wine, it is a mocker, and of strong drink, it is raging, again, no amount is talked about.

 

[maco]

It does not say "Do not sleep lest you come to poverty", and does not say sleep is sinful. It said the "love" of "sleep" will bring to "poverty".

Love not sleep, lest thou come to poverty; open thine eyes, [and] thou shalt be satisfied with bread. Proverbs 20:13

It is an "if" "then" boolean.

Consider further:

Just as Money is not the root of evil, but the "love of money" is the root of all evil.

Go back to Proverbs 20:1, it says nothing about "love". It simply and plainly gives the core definition of such wine, it is a mocker, and of strong drink, it is raging, again, no amount is talked about.

I gave you my example about loving sleep to show there are deeper meanings to Proverbs than what the face value is telling you.

I can put a glass of wine on the table and listen to it for hours and it will never mock. I can put two glasses of strong drink on the table and they will never fight.

 

[maco]

III Angeli Nuntius: Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Proverbs 20:1

Wine - a mocker
strong drink - raging

Nothing about "amount", but rather "content", iow it is inherently a "mocker" and "raging" and is deceptive.

Now lets take this step by step.

I can put a glass of wine on the table and listen to it for hours and it will never mock. I can put two glasses of strong drink on the table and they will never fight.

Since wine does not mock on it's own nor does a strong drink fight with another strong drink it must be talking about another level.

When my wife has a glass of wine she doesn't mock nor does she fight when she has a Margarita so it must still be another level.

When my wife has two glasses of wine she still doesn't mock nor does she fight if she has two Margaritas so it must be yet another level. Since I've never see her drink more than that I could not tell you at what point she would begin mocking or fighting.

So, as you can see, wine and strong drink, in themselves, are not mockers or fighters, but rather, the amount of their use is what brings out the mocking and fighting. This is why God says, "Do not get drunk".

So, so simple. Liberty with responsibility is the Christian way.

 

[stinsonmarri]

I was raised conservative. I personally believe that we ought not to wear jewelry. I've presented my reasoning for such before when speaking with my friends and family, and I try to leave the matter in God's hands. I believe that all who seek His will, will find it. We truly have to be willing to want that though. If God doesn't want His people wearing Jewelry, than His people ought to not wear it. The only way to know though is to study His word, learn the principles therein, and take the matter before Him in prayer.

I was raise that way also but, I find out that Daniel and Joseph was given necklace. Peter stated do not wear costly array and that could mean clothing as well. I have not read anywhere that jewelry is a sin! What I do feel that we should not wear it on Sabbath. I see so many fashion shows on Sabbath (including myself at one time). I have it more in my culture than in the Indo-European culture. The hats, furs, watches that look like bracelets, the stocking, shoes with either real diamond or fake ones to look real. The latest dress and suits and oh so much that it take away from the reason we come to church. I even stop processing my hair because personally felt if YAHSHUA wanted my hair straight it would already be straight. I also return to my culture of dressing as an Afrikan American. I am not saying that all must change how they dress but we should stop trying to be something we are not. I don't wear a watch anymore in church or on the Sabbath. Yes I wear jewelry nice cheap pieces and I do have pierce ears. But never on the Sabbath, I come neatly in my Afrikan clothes but I don't over do it. I come to praise the ALMIGHTY ONES and I do not want people to observe my clothes but my character.

Happy Sabbath and be bless,
stinsonmarri

 

[maco]

I was raise that way also but, I find out that Daniel and Joseph was given necklace. Peter stated do not wear costly array and that could mean clothing as well. I have not read anywhere that jewelry is a sin! What I do feel that we should not wear it on Sabbath. I see so many fashion shows on Sabbath (including myself at one time). I have it more in my culture than in the Indo-European culture. The hats, furs, watches that look like bracelets, the stocking, shoes with either real diamond or fake ones to look real. The latest dress and suits and oh so much that it take away from the reason we come to church. I even stop processing my hair because personally felt if YAHSHUA wanted my hair straight it would already be straight. I also return to my culture of dressing as an Afrikan American. I am not saying that all must change how they dress but we should stop trying to be something we are not. I don't wear a watch anymore in church or on the Sabbath. Yes I wear jewelry nice cheap pieces and I do have pierce ears. But never on the Sabbath, I come neatly in my Afrikan clothes but I don't over do it. I come to praise the ALMIGHTY ONES and I do not want people to observe my clothes but my character.

Happy Sabbath and be bless,
stinsonmarri

This is where the problems come in. If the clothing attitude is unholy for Sabbath then it's unholy the rest of the week as well. The Sabbath is a blessed day. It's a day to set aside our tools of trade to come from far and near to gather as a people of God. It's a time to share in God's word, it's a time to testify of what God is doing in our lives, it's a time to enjoy each other and build and strengthen our relationships that what are founded in Christ. Swiming on the Sabbath is not a sin, cooking on the Sabbath is not a sin, throwing a Frisbee on the Sabbath is not a sin, playing baseball on the Sabbath is not a sin. Nothing is a sin on the Sabbath if it's not inherently evil.

Mark 3:4 Then He said to them, “Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they kept silent.

If it's evil to do Sunday thru Friday then it's evil to do it on the Sabbath but if it's not evil to do Sunday through Friday then it's not evil on the Sabbath either. The Sabbath doesn't make good things evil.

 

[TheOmegaMan19]

This is where the problems come in. If the clothing attitude is unholy for Sabbath then it's unholy the rest of the week as well. The Sabbath is a blessed day. It's a day to set aside our tools of trade to come from far and near to gather as a people of God. It's a time to share in God's word, it's a time to testify of what God is doing in our lives, it's a time to enjoy each other and build and strengthen our relationships that what are founded in Christ. Swiming on the Sabbath is not a sin, cooking on the Sabbath is not a sin, throwing a Frisbee on the Sabbath is not a sin, playing baseball on the Sabbath is not a sin. Nothing is a sin on the Sabbath if it's not inherently evil.

Mark 3:4 Then He said to them, “Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they kept silent.

If it's evil to do Sunday thru Friday then it's evil to do it on the Sabbath but if it's not evil to do Sunday through Friday then it's not evil on the Sabbath either. The Sabbath doesn't make good things evil.

From my own personal experience, when I first began to keep the Sabbath, I'll admit, I kept it like a Pharisee. I'd go to church, then when I'd come home, I would basically be a hermit. There was just a rigidity about how I was trying to keep it.

In the end, I guess I didn't look like I was enjoying myself, and it was a bad testimony for my Catholic household. I would outwardly praise it as a joy, but inwardly, I was keeping it like it was a weekly detention from life. The Sabbath is being kept wrong if you feel like you're restricting yourself from life rather than amplifying it that day.

Now, I don't mean center your day around sports, music, and such and rob God of attention. But you don't live in a dark cave with a lantern and bible only, either. I completely understand what you're saying.

 

[E.T.Elijah]

I think sometimes we also lose sight of the fact that Sabbath was also made for fellowship. Not just fellowship with God, but with each other. Who all shared in the first Sabbath? God of course, but Adam and Eve as well. They spent their time together. Not just Adam and God or Eve and God. But both and God. I see so many times that the minute the service is over it seems like a mad rush to get out of the building. When I first joined my church, we had fellowship lunch (potlucks) every Sabbath after services. There were times that the church would have people in it until well after sundown. Over the last 12 years we have gone from weekly to none to just one week a month and now back up to every other week. I have started a study on Sabbath afternoon every other week after church so that is the increase in fellowship meals. Hopefully to encourage people to also then stay for the study. That has always been my favorite part of the Sabbath. Getting together with other believers and sharing the experiences we have with God in our own walks. I always find it encouraging and helps to see how God is working in the lives of His people and how prayers are being answered.

 

[TheOmegaMan19]

I think sometimes we also lose sight of the fact that Sabbath was also made for fellowship. Not just fellowship with God, but with each other. Who all shared in the first Sabbath? God of course, but Adam and Eve as well. They spent their time together. Not just Adam and God or Eve and God. But both and God. I see so many times that the minute the service is over it seems like a mad rush to get out of the building. When I first joined my church, we had fellowship lunch (potlucks) every Sabbath after services. There were times that the church would have people in it until well after sundown. Over the last 12 years we have gone from weekly to none to just one week a month and now back up to every other week. I have started a study on Sabbath afternoon every other week after church so that is the increase in fellowship meals. Hopefully to encourage people to also then stay for the study. That has always been my favorite part of the Sabbath. Getting together with other believers and sharing the experiences we have with God in our own walks. I always find it encouraging and helps to see how God is working in the lives of His people and how prayers are being answered.

The potlucks are good. And it was the same deal at our church. After awhile, the crowd thinned out for lunch (no pun intended). By that point, lunch would begin with about 12-15 people, and after 25-30 mins, there would literally be maybe the same 6-8 people. And by then, the few remaining people would be having personal discussions amongst one another, so I'd kinda be like "Okie-dokey, see you all next week!"

But yeah, after the service, most ran out like the place was burning down. Now personally, I like the fellowship, and I used to enjoy sticking around for potluck, but I rarely remained beyond maybe 3-3:30 (I'd arrive at 11am). I just have a certain threshold, where I like to keep moving. But I always did stay to pray and mingle with others. I don't lean on my ADHD (if it even exists), but I'm very fidgity, so staying with the other members for 3-4 hours is pretty good for me. I'm that way at home, and anywhere else, too.

During the warmer months, I have a blast just sitting by the lake with a bible and taking in the scene. To me, that's a great Sabbath afternoon

 

[maco]

The Sabbath is a little picture of what the kingdom of God is going to be like. If we make the Sabbath miserable who would want to spend eternity like that and since the kingdom will be miserable why bother even following Christ. The law without relationship is religion. Jesus didn't die to give us religion. Lets find ways to make the Sabbath fun and enjoyable. Let us serve God by serving one another. Preach, eat, play and minister for today is a holy day.

Nehemiah 8:10 Then he said to them, “Go your way, eat the fat, drink the sweet, and send portions to those for whom nothing is prepared; for this day is holy to our Lord. Do not sorrow, for the joy of the Lord is your strength.”

 

[stinsonmarri]

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it Holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of YAHWEH thy ELOHIM: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, or thy son, or thy daughter, thy manservant, or thy maidservant, or thy cattle, or thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days YAHWEH made Heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested (actual meaning of the word should be celebrate) the seventh day: wherefore YAHWEH Blessed the Sabbath day, and Hallowed it. Ex 20:8-11 ​

If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my Holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the Holy of YAHWEH, Honourable; and shalt Honour HIM, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Isa 58:13 ​

The Bible is very clear how the Sabbath should be kept in Honor of the Father. We are not to labor and put away our own pleasure even speaking secular things on the Sabbath. The Sabbath is great reading a Bible by the lake which is a part of creation. But not swimming that is our pleasure or even getting the mail or taking unnecessary calls on the Sabbath. YAHSHUA was our example, HE healed the sick and aided those who needed help. We should not cook uncook food on the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day to celebrate creation and there is a lot of good you can do. Visit the sick, take the children to the park, or play Bible games. Good religious movies but it not to take a nap all day or to over indulge with food. Many will be lost because they either made a the Sabbath a burden or they do not keep it Holy!

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

 

[maco]

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it Holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of YAHWEH thy ELOHIM: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, or thy son, or thy daughter, thy manservant, or thy maidservant, or thy cattle, or thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days YAHWEH made Heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested (actual meaning of the word should be celebrate) the seventh day: wherefore YAHWEH Blessed the Sabbath day, and Hallowed it. Ex 20:8-11 ​

If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my Holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the Holy of YAHWEH, Honourable; and shalt Honour HIM, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Isa 58:13 ​

The Bible is very clear how the Sabbath should be kept in Honor of the Father. We are not to labor and put away our own pleasure even speaking secular things on the Sabbath. The Sabbath is great reading a Bible by the lake which is a part of creation. But not swimming that is our pleasure or even getting the mail or taking unnecessary calls on the Sabbath. YAHSHUA was our example, HE healed the sick and aided those who needed help. We should not cook uncook food on the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day to celebrate creation and there is a lot of good you can do. Visit the sick, take the children to the park, or play Bible games. Good religious movies but it not to take a nap all day or to over indulge with food. Many will be lost because they either made a the Sabbath a burden or they do not keep it Holy!

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

Nor finding thine own pleasure and call the Sabbath a delight?

So I'm not to have pleasure in fellowship, hearing sermons, having potluck and yet I'm suppose to call the Sabbath a delight?

Either I have to lie or it sounds like a conflict of terms.

The fourth commandment teaches us to take the Sabbath day off from our jobs to celebrate the Sabbath, this includes giving our servants and our working animals the day off as well. The focus of the fourth commandment is secular work ie: livelihood.

The word, pleasure, in Isaiah 58:13 is to be understood in light of the pleasure of making money relating to doing business. Isaiah 58:3 sets the stage for Isaiah 58:13. Listen.

Isaiah 58:3 Why have we fasted, and thou seest it not? Why have we humbled ourselves, and thou takest no knowledge of it?’ Behold, in the day of your fast you seek your own pleasure, and oppress all your workers.

Listen to how some translations actually use the word, business, in place of, pleasure.

Isaiah 58:13 If you keep the Sabbath with care, not doing your business on my holy day; and if the Sabbath seems to you a delight, and the new moon of the Lord a thing to be honoured; and if you give respect to him by not doing your business, or going after your pleasure, or saying unholy words; - Basic English Bible

Here is some more insight into Isaiah 58:13.

"If you refrain from doing your own business upon the Sabbath, on my sacred day, and hold the sabbath a delight, and the Eternal's sacred day an honor, not following your own wonted round, not doing business, and not talking idly, then you shall have delight in the Eternal's favor ..." (Isa. 58:13, Moffatt).

"If you cease to tread the Sabbath underfoot, and keep my holy day from your own affairs, if you call the Sabbath a day of joy and Yahweh's holy day a day to be honored, if you honor it by not PLYING YOUR TRADE, not seeking your own interest or attending to your own affairs, then you shall find your joy in Yahweh ..." (Isa. 58:13, NAB).

Now, let me go one step further. We run the risk of developing a legalistic and ritualistic attitude in keeping the Sabbath when we look to the Old Covenant to establish Sabbath keeping principles. The New Covenant is based on the teachings of Jesus. Colossians teaches us not to judge anyone relating to how the Sabbath is kept. The Sabbath is a blessed and holy day. We are to take the day off from our jobs to celebrate it just like we would do for Thanksgiving or the Fourth of July.

Here is how God's holy day should be kept, take the day off from work to freely celebrate God, His people, creation and life.

Nehemiah 8:10 Then he said to them, “Go your way, eat the fat, drink the sweet, and send portions to those for whom nothing is prepared; for this day is holy to our Lord. Do not sorrow, for the joy of the Lord is your strength.”

Enjoy...Amen
​

 

[stinsonmarri]

Maco:

Not that I am saying it is wrong to sit and eat together on the Sabbath. But it is the conversations and the over indulging that become a sin. YAHSHUA ate at Simon's house, the leper that was healed. Mary came in with the thing in mind. Humbleness and thanking the SAVIOR for changing her life. We could discuss the sermon or other topics of the Bible for these last days. Our soul purpose is to take one day from the rest and reflect on the CREATORS and how today we need to get ready for war, don't you think?

As a young girl we did many things on the Sabbath that dealt with the ALMIGHTY ONES. We went to the park on East Rock that had animals. We went to the lake and then return to MV that is called AYS now. We did good on the Sabbath visiting the sick, giving out Bible studies and much more. We did not get into the problems that we have today with our youth. We were kept busy in pathfinders, choir, socials and other entertainment. We kept the Sabbath Holy!!!!! I hated when the Sabbath ended because truly: "Sabbath is a happy day and I loved every Sabbath."

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

 

[maco]

Maco:

Not that I am saying it is wrong to sit and eat together on the Sabbath. But it is the conversations and the over indulging that become a sin. YAHSHUA ate at Simon's house, the leper that was healed. Mary came in with the thing in mind. Humbleness and thanking the SAVIOR for changing her life. We could discuss the sermon or other topics of the Bible for these last days. Our soul purpose is to take one day from the rest and reflect on the CREATORS and how today we need to get ready for war, don't you think?

As a young girl we did many things on the Sabbath that dealt with the ALMIGHTY ONES. We went to the park on East Rock that had animals. We went to the lake and then return to MV that is called AYS now. We did good on the Sabbath visiting the sick, giving out Bible studies and much more. We did not get into the problems that we have today with our youth. We were kept busy in pathfinders, choir, socials and other entertainment. We kept the Sabbath Holy!!!!! I hated when the Sabbath ended because truly: "Sabbath is a happy day and I loved every Sabbath."

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

Amen...but let us not say swimming on the Sabbath is wrong or anything else that allows us to enjoy creation and fellowship with one another such as cookouts, Frisbee tossing, horseshoes, biking, Christian concerts, softball, hiking, kite flying and so on. All these things fall under good, not evil.