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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
I know Evil is loose in the world, but,...
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Iollain
Jer 18:2-6
lambslove said:I LOVE the Smith Wigglesworth fairytales! They are so funny!
I especially love the one where the bishop grows new feet 30 years after he had them amputated and the one where the child comes back to life after being dead and buried for six years. Those are great tales.
Too bad none of them are based in truth.
I haven't studies Wigglesworth that much so i haven't heard about the stories you have here. I was just trying to point out that 'He that is in us is greater than he who is in the world'.
Are these stories online anywhere?
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SteveR2021
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I would caution you against mockery - especially against something you know so little about.
I hope you are not suggesting that all the healings associated with Wigglesworth are false...I have read biographies and autobiographies and I am grieved that you would mock his ministry in this way. I hope that you are speaking of specific stories only.
I don't know what else to say...what in the world would possess you to say this?
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Hisgirl
Loved into Heaven by a Violent Act of Grace
lambslove said:I LOVE the Smith Wigglesworth fairytales! They are so funny!
I especially love the one where the bishop grows new feet 30 years after he had them amputated and the one where the child comes back to life after being dead and buried for six years. Those are great tales.
Too bad none of them are based in truth.
Please be aware that at this point you are judging him and you are making a bold statement about him and his ministry ....based on what knowledge?
Do you know for a fact that all of the miracles are false? How do you know this?
Is it because man has taught you God will not perform miracles after the open canon period? Can you back that up with scripture?
Some might not believe Heidi Baker who is alive and running orphanages in Africa....she has prayed over dead people and seen them raised up...she has seen food multiply....she is leading numerous young Africans to the Lord....She chases after the God of miracles and miracles follow. If folks don't believe what I am saying...then contact her ministry and verify it.
If they say it is the truth and one chooses to not believe it...then they would be saying she is lying...she is living her life to lead others to the Lord and the fruit says her kingdom is not divided.
Anyone who feels it is necessary to only worship a God who no longer does miracles...then you are denying who God is....
Yes, there are some false signs and wonders....but why would satan counterfeit something that wasn't real? Real, miraculous signs and wonders are happening all over the world....God is the same today, yesterday and forever.
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SteveR2021
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Iollain said:I haven't studies Wigglesworth that much so i haven't heard about the stories you have here. I was just trying to point out that 'He that is in us is greater than he who is in the world'.
Are these stories online anywhere?
Some of them, but mostly they can only be found in books and other publications. If you go to amazon.com they have oodles of books about Smith Wigglesworth's supposed "healings" and if you read enough of them it becomes very clear that Wigglesworth was the original Benny Hinn.
Wigglesworth was a plumber whose business was failing when his wife got ill and he took her to a healing service. He saw that people would put large amounts of money into the collection buckets at these services in hopes that God would have favor on them and heal them.
Wigglesworth realized he could save his home and marriage if he started having healing services and he travelled some distance from his hometown and went to the pastor of a pentacostal church and said God had given him the gift of healing and that he would have a healing service at that church if they would take up a love offering for his expenses. The church went ahead with the service and Wigglesworth preached a sermon on faith and started to lay hands on people. As so often happens, the people became overjoyed at the prospect of being healed and began to say that they felt better. The pastor then vouched for Wigglesworth at the next meeting and his "ministry" was born.
Many impossible healings have been attributed to Wigglesworth, including a bishop of the Anglican Church growing new feet after his were amputated by following Wiggleworth's instructions to go buy new shoes. Supposedly the new feet grew in a couple of seconds in front of the shoe clerk when the new shoes were placed on the stumps of his legs. But since Wigglesworth never said the name of the bishop, the name of the town, the location of the town, the name of the shoestore or the name of the clerk, the "facts" could never be verified. Such was also the case of the child who was "rasied from the dead" after six years in the grave. Supposedly the child's mother, who was never named, came to a healing service and asked Wigglesworth if it was possible for him to help her have another baby since she had lost her only child six years before, and Wigglesworth not only healed her womb, but went to the cemetery and ordered the gravediggers to dig up the dead child and the child was found to be alive. Again, he never reported the name of the town, the name of the mother, the names of the grave diggers, the name of the cemetery or of the church where this service happened, he just expected people to take it on faith that he had done what he said.
These events always happened when he was on the road and he said he wouldn't give names and places to protect the privacy of the people involved. Even when a major paper offered a $10,000 dollar reward (about 10 years salary for the average family in those days) no one came forward to show them the dead child who had come back to life, or would even give the name of the person or the town so they could verify the facts.
Many of Wigglesworth's "healed" people died of the very diseases he was supposed to have cured, often very quickly after they were healed, just like Benny Hinn's healings.
Today, the legends of Smith Wigglesworth are plentious, but the facts are hard to verify. Much of what he preached and wrote is still in print.
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Hisgirl said:
That's always the direction people go in when someone doubts that a particular person has the gift of healing, isn't it. I DO believe that God still heals people today. My cousin, my neighbor and my own dog where healed this way. I do not doubt at all that God still heals. Note I said GOD heals, not Smith Wigglesworth or Benny Hinn. The reason I doubt Wigglesworth is that I HAVE read so much about him, not one little book dedicated to praising him, but a lot of stuff, including newspaper accounts of his day.
Don't know anything about her, so I couldn't say whether to doubt her or not. People who do false healings all get exposed in the end though, so the truth will come out.
Who are "they"?
Why do you feel it's okay to judge people who feel differently than you do right after you said that it is wrong to judge people who feel differently than you do?
To make people have faith in a human being and not God. To lead them from looking for the life and resurrection to come and keep them focused on feeling good in the here and now. To give people a false sense of healing so their faith can be dashed completely and permanently when the same disease comes back and kills them or their loved one. Do I need to go on or is that enough?
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