• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

I know Evil is loose in the world, but,...

Status
Not open for further replies.

1SweetJream

Active Member
Mar 8, 2005
44
3
63
*walking with 1 Sweet Jesus Ruling Everything Arou
✟179.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican

I REALLY do appreciate your Explaination LL & I do feel like it fits my symptoms. And it really does make me feel comforted to know that it may well be a simple physical, bio-chemical thing happening to me.

I'm sorry that you feel hurt about ppl's (myself included), inability to wrap our minds around your explaination & embrace it as the "only" possible truth.

I guess unless it's happened to you it may be difficult to understand how intensely REAL it feels.

I TRUELY didn't mean to start a heated debate that would result in hurt feelings :(

I pray that as Stefan Davidovich put it, that ppl's can Respectfully agree to disagree. :angel:

You & Stefan both seem very knowledgeable in that you've both had some study in this area.

Everyone who has responded here, have made valid points & shared good scripture, as well as sound spiritual/christian advice & prayers.

*I DO APPRECIATE EVERYONES INPUT!!!!!! You're ALL AWESOME!!!!* :clap:

THANK-YOU & Gods Best Blessings to each & everyone :holy:
 
Upvote 0

ZiSunka

It means 'yellow dog'
Jan 16, 2002
17,006
284
✟46,267.00
Faith
Christian
Thanks! I'm not hurt, I just didn't want people to foist an unnecessary burden on you by forcing you to believe that you have been pursued by demons your whole life. Demons are real and I have seen manifestations of them and it is very, very scary. Nothing at all like what is happening to you, though. When demons attack, they do not have the ability to paralyze you. Also, demon attacks aren't as orderly or sane as what you are going through.

I hope I helped by giving you an non-demonic explanation that doesn't imply that demons are eagerly pursuing you! :)
 
Upvote 0

GreenEyedLady

My little Dinky Doo
Jan 15, 2002
2,641
167
Missouri
Visit site
✟4,791.00
Faith
Baptist
1SweetJream said:
I pray that as Stefan Davidovich put it, that ppl's can Respectfully agree to disagree. :angel:

:holy:

sweet,

I understand LL gave you a reasonable explaination to what you are going through. What concerned me was the bed shaking. That is wierd. Whatever it is, whether evil or physical, there is no harm in pleading the Blood of Jesus when things like this happen. I think its best to be prepared both body and mind, physically and mentally. When I am attacked, I have scriptures that I have memorized that I say. I have horrible dreams sometime and I can even say them in my dreams sometimes. One thing that I have found VERY helpful is not only pleading Jesus' name, but his blood that covers you. You know that song.............THere is POWER POWER, wonder workin POWER in the BLOOD of the LAMB. Well sister, that song is true, there is POWER in the BLOOOD of the LAMB! I cannot TELL you how many times I sing that song out loud when I am scared! I have been through ALOT of things to this nature and if you ever want to talk, PM me. I would be more than happy to share with you how I have battled this.
GEL
 
Upvote 0

Maeyken

Senior Veteran
Jul 28, 2004
4,405
141
Hamilton
✟27,800.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Ginny said:
You know what is weird? my husband and I have both felt our bed shake both at the same time and independently (?) What in the world is that supposed to be (mean)?

do you live somewhere that has a lot of earthquakes? (that was my first thought!)
 
Upvote 0

ZiSunka

It means 'yellow dog'
Jan 16, 2002
17,006
284
✟46,267.00
Faith
Christian
Ginny said:
You know what is weird? my husband and I have both felt our bed shake both at the same time and independently (?) What in the world is that supposed to be (mean)?

Your house is settling. A large truck that you couldn't hear drove by at low gear. There was a mild earth quake. A teenage boy turned on his subwoofers far enough away so that you couldn't hear them but the subaudible vibrations travelled farther (they do you know) and you felt them but never heard the music that went with them. Your downstairs or upstairs neighbors were moving something heavy and the vibes travelled though the floor. You were both a little sick and queasy felt wobbly.

There are many, many reasons you felt your bed move that have nothing to do with demons. ;)

When demons come, they don't shake your bed, they shake your whole life.
 
Upvote 0

GreenEyedLady

My little Dinky Doo
Jan 15, 2002
2,641
167
Missouri
Visit site
✟4,791.00
Faith
Baptist
lambslove said:
There are many, many reasons you felt your bed move that have nothing to do with demons. ;)

When demons come, they don't shake your bed, they shake your whole life.

I would not be so quick to assume LL. Demons can come in all ways.

Ephesians 6:12-13 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

This armour is not just for one part, but includes all parts because Satan and these rulers of darkness can attack in many differant areas of our bodies. This is why scripture continues in here that we are to protect our WHOLE body, not just specific areas.
There is not just a set way demons can attack, there are many ways they can attack. It is very possible a bed shaking can be an attack.
Its better to take action, even if your not sure than to rather explain it away and risk futher fights.

GEL
 
Upvote 0

ZiSunka

It means 'yellow dog'
Jan 16, 2002
17,006
284
✟46,267.00
Faith
Christian
Shaking attack? Where does the Bible say that demons attack us by shaking our beds?

Being influenced by satan is different from being attacked by demons. The armor of God is to protect us in spiritual battles with our enemy, but also our own evil desires and temptations. No one has shown me yet where it says in the Bible that children of God are subjected to physical manifestations from demons, or even that demons can do such a thing.
 
Upvote 0

Lockheed

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2005
515
29
✟816.00
Faith
Calvinist
LOL, right on Lamb's. Often I find people attribute to Satan and his minons powers and abilities far beyond what Scripture states they have. Remember folks, Satan had to ask God to test Job or Peter, if you're a believer in Christ he as just as much power over you... (which is to say, none that the Lord doesn't allow him to have.)



Secondly, keep in mind that sometimes afflictions come upon us from Satan as a means for us to be sanctified. Like Paul's thorn:
2 Cor 12:7-9

Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me--to keep me from exalting myself!
Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me.
And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness " Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Consider what's being said here. To keep him from exalting himself, a thorn in the flesh, whatever it was, was given to Paul... a "messenger of Satan."


Who gave him this thorn? Was it Satan? Surely not, yes it is a 'messenger from Satan', but what can Satan do to God's Apostle without being given allowance by God to do so?

Finally, in v9 we see that it was part of God's plan to sanctify Paul through humilty so that "the power of Christ may dwell in me."

Satan is not equal to God nor is Satan omniscient. In the end, Satan is a pawn to bring about God's plan. I'm sure that angers him to no end.
 
Upvote 0

SteveR2021

Steve
Mar 6, 2005
436
27
46
Canada
Visit site
✟23,623.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
Perhaps He has allowed 1SweetJream to have this experience for His own purposes.

Shaking attack? Where does the Bible say that demons attack us by shaking our beds?

Just because something is not in the Bible does not mean it is not real.

Some of you are very vigorous in your defense of rational explanations...I'm not sure why. It can't hurt to be cautious and aware of the possibilities. Better to mistakenly think this a spiritual attack of some kind and treat it as such (taking authority in the name of Jesus) than to assume there are rational explanations and ignore it.

Let's always remember that our struggle is not against flesh and blood.
 
Upvote 0
Sep 10, 2004
6,609
414
Kansas City area
✟31,271.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
lambslove said:
Amazing!

The OP says she thinks that it is a biochemical thing because her symptoms match the symptoms of sleep paralysis, a normal function of the body when we are awakened too quickly, but people go on and on about how it's demonic. :(

Demons don't have the power to paralyze God's people. Demons don't have the power to make one hold one's breath. Instead of looking for a demon under every bush, why not accept the simple answer that best fits the situation?

I have a morbid curiosity with this because I have experienced it. I also read and responded to 1sweetjreams post elsewhere. The sensations do vary from a feeling of a presence, to that of pressure on one's chest to a choking sensation. I will now relate an experience that happened to me.

I was up late at night on the computer and felt that something was behind me. I turned and thought I saw someone there for an instance, but noticed a stack of boxes behind where I thought I saw someone. I dismissed it and went back to the PC. A moment later I felt it again, only stronger. I turned behind me to look and saw the form of a woman. malevolent looking with long black hair, in what looked like a long t-shirt or something, then it disappeared. I freaked. I dashed into where my wife was sleeping and woke her up. She made the comment that I looked like I had seen a ghost, at which point I told her I thought that I had. She and I went into the room where it occured, and it was just "strange" for lack of a better term.
The lights had a flickering flourecsent quaility to them, the room seemed charged, and cold (but not in a temprature), just wierd.
So anyway I was way to disturbed to go to sleep so my wife agreed to lay down on the couch and I went back to the PC. A few moments later, I heard my wife struggling on the couch. I looked over at her and she was attempting to raise her head and say something, but she could not, and she was making a gasping sound. Her eyes were slightly opened.
I went and shook her and she "came to" and sprang up. She related that something was choking her, that she could see me and was trying to call out to me for help, but could not. Basically she related all of the sensations of "old hag syndrome", which I had experienced once years before, so I was familiar with the sensations.

Coincidence? A couple of nutballs late at night? Par for the course for sleep paralysis? Maybe, but after that I looked into it heavily, and though there does seem to be a legitimate explanation for some experiences, others seem to defy explanation.

My intention is not to cause unnecessary fear for 1sweetjreams, just sharing from 1st hand experience.
 
Upvote 0

Daisysqueaks

Thank You for Your blessings, Lord
Sep 20, 2004
7,756
546
51
Missouri
✟10,528.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Here's my thoughts, whether it's demons or something that can be explained away by Science, this a phenomenon experienced by many people. That by no means lessens what a scary experience this can be. I too have had this happen from time to time. Not really feeling "Crushed or choking" but the sense that something melovolent is there.
But how do you explain seeing "shadows" while very much wide awake? I have seen this a couple of times. Once I thought I saw one of my little dogs run across my living room floor one morning (they are black & tan Dauchaunds) but they were still shut up from the night before. I attributed it to sleep in my eye. LOL I think that though we cannot be possessed by demons I think they still taunt us.
An interesting note, I just got done reading This Present Darkness by Frank Peretti (good book imho)and in it this is "phenomenon" happens to a couple of main characters.
 
Upvote 0

Ginny

I like to whisper, too!
Feb 22, 2005
7,028
655
here
✟33,148.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
all I know is it is 10:30, very dark, and I am saying my prayers tonight.

The only point to all of this, assuming it is Satan, is F-E-A-R. Otherwise, what would be the point of shaking the bed? To freak us out!!!

GET BEHIND THEE SATAN TO ME AND EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS THREAD!

Romans 8:38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[m] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
Upvote 0

Ginny

I like to whisper, too!
Feb 22, 2005
7,028
655
here
✟33,148.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
...while I am thinking about it...Satan loves for us to be afraid.

Saturday night we prevented a very scary situation from happening with a prowler. Now all I do all day is walk the windows. He is very aware of our reaction to this event and is taking off and running with it. It may never happen again..but I am acting like it just happened and will happen again.

Once he tries out a bunch of things and finds that "kicker" that really gets us...oh what a joyous day for him.....Then the hard work begins for us.
 
Upvote 0
A

Amongst the Flock

Guest
My question to the person who wrote the thread is what kind of music do you listen to and what did you get into in your past.

Also no matter how bad it gets Jesus will never forsake you and the fact that you wake up everytime is because he allowed you to awaken.

Romans 5:3 Rejoice in your sufferings, for sufferings develop perseverance, perseverance develops character, character and hope.

We don't rejoice in the pain but the fact that it strengthens our trust and reliance on Christ and proves to be a powerful witness to non-believers and especially non-believer metal heads. I witness to alot of metal heads about how I opened gateways for demons to attack me and you would be surprised of how many of them get convicted. I can see it in their eyes and most don't know what it is. They are demons or Satan's workers and they will do whatever they can to break our faith. Stay strong and cry out to God and don't hold it in. Tell others at church to pray for you constantly and ask someone to pray for you for deliverance and inspect your house for anything that might attract demons into your house.


I was refered here by another poster and here are two of my posts from another thread. I could write a book about my experiences with the devil and his demons. The original poster said it happens once in a while. For me it almost happens every day. I will let you read my posts before I go into further detail and explain what is really going on. I have been going through this for over 4 years.

The devil roams around like a lion seeking who he might devour.

The sounds or things that they might have heard or seen can happen. I used to be a Satanist before becoming a Christian and opened alot of Gateways and experience the bad side of the spiritual realm daily. I experience the divine power of God as well since being baptised in the Holy Spirit and talking in tongues.

NOt everyone gets involved in the evil realm of spirits and I will pray that it never happens to any of you that a gateway is opened. Please take this seriously and don't laugh. I am only warning you of what the other side is like. I have had many physical out of body experiences with demons, seen many unexplained things, and hear things every day. that movie white noise that came out, I have experienced those things, things like the movie poltergeist and so on.

So please be careful my brothers and sisters in Christ because opening doors for evil spirits is no joke and it isn't an enjoyable experience. I would appreciate your prayers for I tend to only get 2-3 hours of sleep a day and often go up to 48 hours without sleeping for I am under constant attack. God's grace is sufficient in my life and please don't laugh at this post. I am not lying and am only warning you out of the compassion of my heart not to see others fall into the same trap.

Thank you for your support. However since I came out of deep Satanism and now I am a zealot and I am now a "Living Sacrifice" for God. I can't talk to anyone without giving all the Glory to Jesus for how he has changed my life.

I have also been delivered from Paranoid Schizophrenia, Bi-polar mood swings, split personality disorder, anxiety attacks and severe depression. I was suicidal at times and was heavily involved with drugs and alcohol. I was also a racial Skinhead and was into severe forms of Self Mutilation. There is plenty that I can't talk about but these were some of my major strongholds. I have been off all medication for 8 months now. Jesus is my new psychologist and the Bible is my new Medication.

If you read 2 Corinthians 12 it talks about Paul's thorn in the flesh. Through a Revelation at church through my pastor and from others who didn't know my situation fully I have my own thorn in the flesh. there is a messenger of Satan that constantly harasses me in my sleep and when I am awake. I have prayed alot about it but the benefit of it is that I always stay humble and realize that I have to depend on Jesus for everything. Plus when I get severely attacked in my sleep and with out of body experiences the fact that I always wake up is because Jesus wakes me up. Every day that I continue to live is a blessing from Jesus and I can't thank him enough. His grace is sufficient in my life and I can delight in my weakness for when I am weak I am strong. The tormenting demon can attack my flesh and cause me great anguish and pain but he can't touch the Spirit of Jesus withing me.
My first warning is to any of you who listen to Secular heavy metal and death metal. The majority of these bands worship Satan and regardless of how great the music is the lyrics and music go hand in hand.

I am under physical attack right now and go through attack not only in my sleep but when I am awake, at work, and at church. If there are any Christians that are playing with fire such as secular metal I would stop now. They say if you play with fire you may get burned and when you get burned by the evil spiritual realm of evil it is a lifelong battle.

To the original poster please sign my guestbook and I will give you my personal email if you want to go into further detail and I will tell you all the steps I have been taking to deal with it.

Good luck everyone and be careful what you get into.

Peace, love, and Joy to all. :)
 
Upvote 0

Lockheed

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2005
515
29
✟816.00
Faith
Calvinist
Amongst the Flock said:
If you read 2 Corinthians 12 it talks about Paul's thorn in the flesh. Through a Revelation at church through my pastor and from others who didn't know my situation fully I have my own thorn in the flesh. there is a messenger of Satan that constantly harasses me in my sleep and when I am awake. I have prayed alot about it but the benefit of it is that I always stay humble and realize that I have to depend on Jesus for everything. Plus when I get severely attacked in my sleep and with out of body experiences the fact that I always wake up is because Jesus wakes me up.

Are you a believer in Christ? If so, what power does Satan have over you? Read Romans 8 and recognize that there is nothing, no power in the universe that will seperate you from the love of Christ and the intercession of Him and the Holy Spirit. Surely God is more powerful than a mere created angel.

Also, re-read 2 Cor 12 and ask yourself where the 'thorn in the flesh' came from, who gave it to Paul and for what purpose.
 
Upvote 0

Ginny

I like to whisper, too!
Feb 22, 2005
7,028
655
here
✟33,148.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Lockheed said:
Are you a believer in Christ? Surely God is more powerful than a mere created angel.

I am a believer in Christ and I know that Satan does not have power over me, but that does not mean that he does not mess with me all the time. You can rebuke the fool and know that your power is in Jesus but that does not mean in any uncertain terms that he is gone forever.

Again, once Satan finds out what your weakness is through trial and error...he sneakily waits around to see what will "get you" and torment you forever with it.

Let us use pornography for example. One day someone might decide just to take a peek and then from there it becomes a real problem. They get addicted to it and later through the grace of God they are delivered. Will they constantly have to avoid the convenience stores that sell the stuff? Yes. What about that lingerie magazine the wife gets? Yes. That will have to avoided, too. So precautions will have to be taken the rest of this person's life as to avoid temptation with a problem that once consumed their lives.

In this person's life, and several others', too, as we have read, Satan is using fear in regards to evil to continuously haunt us. We will not be able to rest one bit until we come to God constantly before we got to sleep. Perhaps God is allowing this to happen...everytime I stagger with reading the Bible and fellowship with God..here he comes again...and then there I am going back again...to God.
 
Upvote 0

Lockheed

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2005
515
29
✟816.00
Faith
Calvinist
Ginny said:
I am a believer in Christ and I know that Satan does not have power over me, but that does not mean that he does not mess with me all the time. You can rebuke the fool and know that your power is in Jesus but that does not mean in any uncertain terms that he is gone forever.

Do me a favor, please. Go back to my first post in this thread and provide a Biblical rebuttal.

Again, once Satan finds out what your weakness is through trial and error...he sneakily waits around to see what will "get you" and torment you forever with it.

I find that my sinful flesh is plenty to cause me to stumble, I need no devil for a scapegoat. I certainly believe there is a devil, but I believe you're attributing to him far too much power.

Let us use pornography for example. One day someone might decide just to take a peek and then from there it becomes a real problem. They get addicted to it and later through the grace of God they are delivered. Will they constantly have to avoid the convenience stores that sell the stuff? Yes. What about that lingerie magazine the wife gets? Yes. That will have to avoided, too. So precautions will have to be taken the rest of this person's life as to avoid temptation with a problem that once consumed their lives.

Where is Satan in this? Is it Satan who is always tempting you? Do you not take some responsibility for sin? Sure, we all may have some area in our lives in which we still struggle, but that's not Satan's fault, it's technically Adam's.

In this person's life, and several others', too, as we have read, Satan is using fear in regards to evil to continuously haunt us. We will not be able to rest one bit until we come to God constantly before we got to sleep. Perhaps God is allowing this to happen...everytime I stagger with reading the Bible and fellowship with God..here he comes again...and then there I am going back again...to God.

Sounds good to me... I note however that according to Scripture even Paul struggled with sin on a daily basis. Seems a lot of folks are looking for some victorious life wherein they overcome a sin and never struggle with it again, I believe, however, the life expressed in Scripture in one that is always striving to trust Christ through a lifetime of struggle.
 
Upvote 0

SteveR2021

Steve
Mar 6, 2005
436
27
46
Canada
Visit site
✟23,623.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
Sounds good to me... I note however that according to Scripture even Paul struggled with sin on a daily basis. Seems a lot of folks are looking for some victorious life wherein they overcome a sin and never struggle with it again, I believe, however, the life expressed in Scripture in one that is always striving to trust Christ through a lifetime of struggle.

I think you have misunderstood Paul. Paul was referring to his struggle with his sinful flesh, not a particular sin that had become habitual.

I am looking for a victorious life where I will always struggle with temptation and a sinful nature but have complete victory over deliberate sins.

Remember John said this:

"Dear children, don't let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it is because they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. But when people keep on sinning, it shows they belong to the Devil...Those who have been born into God's family do not sin, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they have been born of God." (1 John 3:7-9)

I have gone a little off topic here so we can carry this discussion on in another thread if you like.

And yes Satan has power - God has more power but He has given Satan power...if we take our authority seriously we can have victory when he attacks. But we ought not to expect that we will no longer be attacked simply because we are God's children.
 
Upvote 0

Lockheed

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2005
515
29
✟816.00
Faith
Calvinist
Stefan Davidovich said:
I think you have misunderstood Paul. Paul was referring to his struggle with his sinful flesh, not a particular sin that had become habitual.

I am looking for a victorious life where I will always struggle with temptation and a sinful nature but have complete victory over deliberate sins.

Not according to Paul in regards to his thorn. Of course, some argue that this was a physical ailment, others believe a particular sin (perhaps pride.) If so then it is clear that He asked three times for God to remove this thorn from his life and yet was told "My grace is sufficient..."

Remember John said this:

"Dear children, don't let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it is because they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. But when people keep on sinning, it shows they belong to the Devil...Those who have been born into God's family do not sin, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they have been born of God." (1 John 3:7-9)

Interesting translation... the text of Scripture translated into English however more closely states the following:
1 John 3:7-9
Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
The point here is not that Christians cannot sin, nor that they will always have some victory over specific sins, but that they don't desire nor seek to practice sin. This is in harmony with Romans 7.
Romans 7:19-25
For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.
Paul's struggle is mentioned right here. Though he "joyfully concur(s) with the law of God in the inner man" he none-the-less found himself "doing the very thing I do not want." The answer is "there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus" (8:1). The believer then, with a continually repentant heart toward God is always viewed by God as righteous even though his very thoughts remain tainted with sin as long as the believer remains in the flesh.

Here is the victorious life, not that we over come sin by the effort our will, but solely by looking to the cross of Christ for redemption. As Martin Luther liked to put it, we are "simul iustus et peccator", simultaneously saint and sinner. We are saints in and through Christ, but in the flesh sinners.

Thus it is written that we are "waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body."

No mere physical ailment would have brought Paul to such desperation, keep in mind this "messenger of Satan" that tormented him never let up and was allowed by God to keep him humble.

And yes Satan has power - God has more power but He has given Satan power...if we take our authority seriously we can have victory when he attacks. But we ought not to expect that we will no longer be attacked simply because we are God's children.

Strange, did Paul not "take his authority seriously" when he entreated God to remove his thorn? What was Paul's problem?
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.