I keep being told that God objects to abortion...

[chad kincham]

That does not, however, suggest that Christians have a mission to use the sheriff's gun to force pagans to act like Christians.

Youre pretty much showing that you don’t know what you’re talking about here.

In the original Hippocratic oath, which came from pagan Greece, doctors swore to abstain from doing abortions.

Even pagans knew abortions were wrong.

It’s not a Christian issue, it’s a moral issue.

 

[chad kincham]

Off topic, but Jesus is [the corporate head of] Israel... not divorced.

God the Father divorced Israel in Jeremiah 3:8, ending the old covenant.

Jesus is the groom in the new covenant - as Paul wrote, we are married to ANOTHER, even to Jesus. Romans 7:4

 

[chad kincham]

I tend to agree.

There is nothing anywhere in the bible that discusses abortion, mentions abortion, or gives us any indication of God's opinion of it. Everything we think on the topic comes from us and our own personal or cultural biases, and deciding that it comes from God is an attempt to create him in our own image. We can't use "God's will" to enforce our opinion of it either way.

I guess you missed where God says, thou shalt not kill.

A

largely agree with you. The salvation message of the gospel is still the same regardless of whether a huge fish literally swallowed Jonah for three days, or if that story is some sort of metaphor. Our faith doesn't depend on it literally being historic fact

Apparently Catholics are unaware that Jesus affirmed everything Moses wrote, as literal truth.

From Adam and Eve, to the great flood of Noah - in fact, Jesus not only affirmed Jonah in the fish as true, He said that just as Jonah wa three days and nights in the fish belly, so would He be in the heart of the earth for three days and nights.

 

[chad kincham]

Youre pretty much showing that you don’t know what you’re talking about here.

In the original Hippocratic oath, which came from pagan Greece, doctors swore to abstain from doing abortions.

Even pagans knew abortions were wrong.

It’s not a Christian issue, it’s a moral issue.

 

[chad kincham]

I agree with myself

 

[chad kincham]

Us Catholics do not find importance in the historicity of the OT. We don't see the Truth in the events but the truth is in the message of the text. The main thing in the Bible that has to be believed as historical/factual is the Gospels. Your Faith is defined in the Apostles Creed not if/if not events in the OT are historical as narrated.

Two points: either it’s all the true inerrant word of God, or we can’t believe any of it - it is all questionable.

And, Jesus affirmed everything Moses wrote, as the accurate and truthful word of God, as well as the prophets.

That includes Adam and Eve, the worldwide flood and Noah, and He made Jonah in the fish belly for three days and nights, the SIGN of His own death and resurrection after three days and nights in the heart of the earth.

 

[Semper-Fi]

And when it comes to actual murder, we still create gods in our own image because we are defining what is a murder and what is not a murder on his behalf.

You mean like Roe vs Wade?
Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973), was a landmark decision of the U.S. Supreme Court in which the Court ruled that the Constitution of the United States protects a pregnant woman's liberty to choose to have an abortion without excessive government restriction.

It struck down many U.S. state and federal abortion laws,
and prompted an ongoing national debate in the United States
about whether and ...

Of the dozens who testified, there was overwhelming agreement
that conception marks the beginning of a human life.

Why, one might ask, are abortions legal then here?
It’s because of personally biased judges, self-serving
politicians, self-centered parents, radical feminists,
morally bankrupt doctors and mixed-up theologians who
promote and support this appalling evil.
-

What does the bible say about life?

"Life is in the blood"
Genesis 9:4, Leviticus 17:11

Blood Circulation in the Fetus and Newborn
Blood Circulation in the Fetus and Newborn | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia
-

Do you condone the sale of baby's body parts?
-

“Marriage”

What about where one Supreme court judges vote [redefined]
that marriage was [now] not only just between a man and a woman,
and [overturned] what was understood for thousands of years.

Support for issues like homosexual “marriage” and abortion
are increasing, with [the family structure called evil now].
Satan loves to attack Gods Family values and ways.

There is a battle going for the U.S. Supreme Court
The left is so worried that Roe vs Wade could be
overturned, they seem nothing will stop them.

Do You think the Left will violently respond if Amy
Coney Barrett is appointed to the U.S. Supreme Court?

"And if a house be divided against itself,
that house cannot stand. Mark 3:25 (KJV)

"But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them,
Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to
desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
-

Traditional Views on Homosexuality, Pornography, marriage,
Fornication and Abortion, and such Are Rapidly Diminishing,
Cohabitation and Shifting gender roles is the new norm.

What would Jesus say about the new gender roles today?
What would Jesus say about the attack on the family structure?

Jesus Christ warned that at the end of the age
“the love of many [would] wax cold” (Matthew 24:12)

It is unloving to rip a fetus from the womb.

Number of Abortions - Abortion Counters
Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

Abortions in the United States by race

Blacks are well more as likely to abort their
children as the general population.

GUEST COLUMN: Black leader explains why he will not join the Black Lives Movement (VIDEO)

You’d think an organization like Black Lives Matter, which
claims there is an ongoing genocide against black Americans,
would be just as concerned about the millions of murdered babies
as the handful of unarmed criminals shot by police each year.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/responsestate-of-the-union/

“We deserve and thus we demand reproductive justice that gives us autonomy over our bodies and our identities while ensuring that our children and families are supported, safe, and able to thrive.”

The phrase “reproductive justice” refers to state-funded
abortions, and “aborted children don’t thrive” .
-

Genesis 9:1 (KJV)
And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them,
Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

He did not say Be fruitful and kill your seed off.
Be fruitful, and multiply | YouVersion Search | The Bible App

Traditional Views on Homosexuality, Pornography, marriage,
Fornication and Abortion, to name a few, Are Rapidly Diminishing,
and morality is being redefined to there liking of younger gen..

“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious
People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
John Adams 1778

After all, it's perfectly fine and righteous to
blow up an entire city with an atomic bomb...

Japan committed some heinous crimes against humanity.

China lost approximately 14 million people because of
the bloodthirsty conquests of Imperial Japan. Estimated
100,000 deaths a month would be a conservative figure.

Critics of Hiroshima leave China out of the equation,
which they must do in order to make their case.

Japan was not going to stop killing others. Should we
have also let Germany march through Europe? There was
much jubilation everywhere when these evils where defeated.
I guess you had to be there to appreciate it first hand.
-


What does the bible say about sex before,
during, and outside of the Marriage covenant?

Why and who needs these abortions' today?

 

[RDKirk]

Youre pretty much showing that you don’t know what you’re talking about here.

In the original Hippocratic oath, which came from pagan Greece, doctors swore to abstain from doing abortions.

Even pagans knew abortions were wrong.

It’s not a Christian issue, it’s a moral issue.

Christians are not citing the Hippocratic oath in their reasoning, nor does the Hippocratic oath even matter in the Christian mission in the world.

It is not the mission of the Body of Christ to make non-Christians act like Christians. It is the mission of the Body of Christ to make disciples. Period. There is no other mission given to the Body of Christ. Everything else Christians do "in Jesus' name" outside of making disciples will result in Him saying, "I don't know you."

 

[Cis.jd]

Two points: either it’s all the true inerrant word of God, or we can’t believe any of it - it is all questionable.

And, Jesus affirmed everything Moses wrote, as the accurate and truthful word of God, as well as the prophets.

That includes Adam and Eve, the worldwide flood and Noah, and He made Jonah in the fish belly for three days and nights, the SIGN of His own death and resurrection after three days and nights in the heart of the earth.

The whole argument of "it has to be all true or it we can't believe any of it" is a fallacy. Because first, truth can also be a form of a message with in a story, not just as historical recording. And second, we can believe things in which there is evidence (or a good academical case) to support it.

Jesus' did not affirm everything other than what was traditionally known, he never once mentioned all the barbarism and wars that Moses and other OT prophets claimed God ordered.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I guess you missed where God says, thou shalt not kill.

The earliest manuscripts say you shall not murder. Do you know the difference between to kill and to murder?

 

[chad kincham]

The whole argument of "it has to be all true or it we can't believe any of it" is a fallacy. Because first, truth can also be a form of a message with in a story, not just as historical recording. And second, we can believe things in which there is evidence (or a good academical case) to support it.

Jesus' did not affirm everything other than what was traditionally known, he never once mentioned all the barbarism and wars that Moses and other OT prophets claimed God ordered.

That’s absolutely not true in the least.

Over and over Jesus cited Moses, and the law and the prophets, as absolute literal truth and as an authoritative source to be studied, and that spoke of Himself, as well.

He not only affirms Jonah in the fish belly for three days and nights, as true - He made it the SIGN of His own death, burial, and resurrection from the dead after three days and nights in the heart of the earth.

And after His resurrection, He opened the truth of everything that had been written of Him, in the law (of Moses) and the prophets, to His disciples.

It’s clear you’ve done very little reading in the New Testament, or you’d know that.

 

[Inkfingers]

Wait a minute...

God also said, "I HATE divorce", yet He divorced himself from Israel. It doesn't NOT mean that He's some kind of liar, and that he must not "hate" divorce (since He Himself did it), and that if divorce is o.k. in God's eyes, it should be o.k. for US.

And likewise, just because God commanded Joshua to slay EVERYONE, including women and children (probably pregnant women, too), doesn't mean that God "approved" of all kinds of infanticide across the board.

God has something we don't have; foreknowledge. God knew if those children were going to grow up and become even MORE wicked than their parents.

Since God is The Creator of Life, He has the Ultimate Say over it. God is the Ultimate Just Judge. He is the ONLY one who gets to say who lives, who dies, who goes to heaven, who goes to hell and WHEN. We don't get to make that decision because we DON'T KNOW if the fetus we're killing was supposed to be the next great Evangelist or another Stalin. We don't have God's foreknowledge and wisdom.

As a parent, you are allowed to do things that you wouldn't allow your child to do. You wouldn't allow your 5 year old to drive a car, even though YOU drive a car. The child doesn't have your knowledge and skill to drive a car.

Same way with God. God is our heavenly parent and we are His 'children'. God is allowed to kill because He has certain knowledge that we don't have. It's not 'wrong' for God to kill. It is not "murder". We define murder as the "unjustified killing of a human being". If God kills, it is justified. God doesn't kill for no reason. You may not like His reason(s) or even approve of His reason(s), but that doesn't matter. Like I said earlier, you don't have the benefit of seeing into the future, like God has.

God commanded Joshua to do this. Read that sentence again for understanding: GOD commanded... In other words, Joshua didn't decide to slay everyone. GOD told him to. But when was the last time you ever heard of a woman claiming that GOD told her to have an abortion? I'm guessing the answer is "never".

The woman who has an abortion is playing God.

​

Again, this is missing the point.

If God commanded Joshua to kill children (and we all accept that He did so) then God does not have an absolute prohibition against infanticide (and all abortion is infanticide).

This does not mean that abortion is always right, but it does mean that abortion is not always wrong.

 

[Strong in Him]

So was God...

Yes, but that's how things were dealt with then.
The OT doesn't say whether God always wanted the children to be killed, or his reasons for it. In these particular verses it just says "we destroyed all the people". It's possible that if someone had said to God, "do we have to kill the babies' why don't we just adopt them?" that's what would have happened.

And that still doesn't change the fact that God gave them victory over their enemies; people who didn't know or believe in him. If God had said "kill the children"; there would have been a reason for it - he is God.
A human being saying "I am going to make a decision to kill this new life within me" is different - especially if the reason is for convenience.

 

[chad kincham]

It is not the mission of the Body of Christ to make non-Christians act like Christians. It is the mission of the Body of Christ to make disciples. Period. There is no other mission given to the Body of Christ. Everything else Christians do "in Jesus' name" outside of making disciples will result in Him saying, "I don't know you."[/QUOTE

Jesus says I never knew you, to those who did not feed, clothe, and shelter the poor, not to those who failed to only make disciples of men.

So much for your fallacious claim.

And James says religion that God approves of is to take care of widows and orphans. Protecting unborn children from murder qualifies as religion God approves of.

 

[Hazelelponi]

God the Father divorced Israel in Jeremiah 3:8, ending the old covenant.

That didn't end the Old Covenant, that began the Babylonian exile but God restored her.

At any rate as I mentioned my comment was off topic, just pointing out a good book to read on the topic that goes through the covanents..

 

[Bobber]

And don't even get me started on the law that passed here in New York last year. Not only are we allowed to legally brutally murder our own fetuses but, now we can legally abort a full term, legally grown, and full term baby! A living breathing freaking BABY!

Quite amazing isn't it. Here President Trump is known be somewhat of a strong talker, kind of uncouth in his speech and many are filled with hate and rage against him and yet they have no problem backing a political group (The Dems) which sign onto that it's fine to do what you described above.

And Trump's even doing his best to put good judges on the Supreme Court who knows that might even side against Roe Vs Wade and he's looked upon as such a horrible Hitler type of guy.

I've always believed though that many times the worse type of oppressors or tyrants are many times the polite ones and I think the Dems pride themselves on being this way. Oh they're maybe very sophisticated use right speech, and smooth in how they do so....very acceptable by worldly standards and yet would Jesus maybe say to such ones they're really like whitewashed tombs full of dead mens bones. Oh on the outside they appear as righteous but inside they're full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

To point at Trump as not being good as the Dems do and to see them guilty of signing onto policies that you've said above.....how it that not the height of hypocrisy by the grandest scale. Again legally being allowed to terminate a full grown baby which the Dems are agreeable to, and yet others say, "I just can't vote for Trump for how he expresses a few words in his tweets!"


I suppose all we can do is seek to encourage others to recapture some balance and perspective in how they're assessing matters.

 

[Mink61]

Again, this is missing the point.

If God commanded Joshua to kill children (and we all accept that He did so) then God does not have an absolute prohibition against infanticide (and all abortion is infanticide).

This does not mean that abortion is always right, but it does mean that abortion is not always wrong.

IF you are correct, and that abortion is not always wrong, under what circumstances would it be right?

Who gets to decide that?

 

[Junia]

And I think you misunderstand the bigger picture. And it's because you are making God's judgment on a people and abortion the same thing.

They are not.

God knew when a people-group had become so wicked - wicked to the point of no return - to the point of harm to themselves and their children AS a people group. At that moment - a moment only God can discern, he passed judgment. And that can include death.

Those little children who died went to be with God and are STILL with him today.

Mankind aborted babies because they are a nuisance, inconvenience, and considered not human is NOT mankind's decision to make.

I

Yes. Some women abort because of financial issues health issues or domestic abuse or rape. It is up to us as the Church to support organisations that help these vulnerable ladies seek alternatives

 

[Junia]

IF you are correct, and that abortion is not always wrong, under what circumstances would it be right?

Who gets to decide that?

Good question

 

[chad kincham]

Again, this is missing the point.

If God commanded Joshua to kill children (and we all accept that He did so) then God does not have an absolute prohibition against infanticide (and all abortion is infanticide).

This does not mean that abortion is always right, but it does mean that abortion is not always wrong.

Very poor reasoning.

Abortion on demand is not only the taking of an innocent life , it is completely unconstitutional.

Our forefathers outlined rights that we have, that come from God, not from the state, thus the RIGHT TO LIFE, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, are inalienable rights that cannot be taken away.

James Wilson, a signer of the constitution, who also attended the constitutional conventions, stated that the founding fathers included unborn humans among those with the god-given inalienable right to life.

Thus abortion on demand denies the right to life, a right given by God to them, to unborn humans - and it is completely unconstitutional.

The earliest manuscripts say you shall not murder. Do you know the difference between to kill and to murder?

What do you call paying money for the pre-meditated killing of a human being, because they are an inconvenience and in the way of the mother?