I just don't *want* to believe!

[Ophiolite]

Are you a professional psychiatrist or psychologist? If so, then I'd have to consider your "diagnosis".

No, but like all other humans I am an amateur one. It's what contributes to our humanity.

The dictionary defines "irrational" as:
(1) : not endowed with reason or understanding
(2) : lacking usual or normal mental clarity or coherence

and even if someone could 100% prove to me that there was a moment in the past where non-life gave rise to life, and even if someone could 100% prove to me that irreducible complexity is not an issue with evolution, etc., the fact of the matter is, I still wouldn't accept the theories being taught by the evolutionists. Why? Because I simply don't want to believe it.

If you stand by the second quote then, by the definitions provided by yourself in the first quote, you are irrational: you completely lack understanding of evolution; you would reject something that was proven to you, simply because you don't want to believe it. That's Nobel prize, Oscar award, Eurovision Song Contest, Olympic decathlon level irrationality. That's irrationality squared, all done up in bright blue costume of cognitive dissonance.

Thanks for the conversation. Just remember, never hit yourself with a hammer, even if you don't want to believe it will hurt.

Edited to correct grammatical faux pas in last sentence.

 

[Kylie]

I don't know if it's reasonable or not.

Do you think it's important to hold a reasonable position?

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Tbh, I don't know if my belief system is rational / reasonable, but it doesn't matter to me. It is what it is. And actually, I think I'm being intellectually honest with myself to admit that I don't want to believe some of the stuff I mentioned in the OP.


I see it as finding lost keys. If you lost your keys, you search for them. But after you've found them you don't keep searching. I've found what I believe to be true, so I don't need to keep searching. In fact, I'm not even interested in searching further.

So what you're saying is that you don't really care about what's true, you just want to live in whatever fantasy world you want to live in?

Kudos for being honest then, but I care about the world I live in and the world we'll eventually leave our descendants - so on that note, I'm disappointed and even slightly concerned that you don't care about the truth.

 

[Brightmoon]

I've been thinking a lot about the whole evolution/creation thing and as a result I recently learned something about myself. I was thinking, even if someone could 100% prove to me that there was a moment in the past where nothing became something, and even if someone could 100% prove to me that there was a moment in the past where non-life gave rise to life, and even if someone could 100% prove to me that irreducible complexity is not an issue with evolution, etc., the fact of the matter is, I still wouldn't accept the theories being taught by the evolutionists. Why? Because I simply don't want to believe it.

This realization has made me wonder if there might be others (on either side of the fence) who refuse to believe something just because they don't want to? Since it's true for me, I imagine it's true for others, too. (It's rather liberating to learn something about yourself.)

. This is from a few days ago . I’d google Morton’s demon . It’s about a creationist who worked with geologists and despite that, he held on to his YEC for years and slowly came to the conclusion that he was deliberately shutting out info that he was dead wrong.( it’s called confirmation bias if you do that and it’s an easy way to come to the wrong conclusion) Morton nicknamed his confirmation bias after a famous physics thought experiment (Maxwell’s demon), by the way - before some idiot starts screaming about satanic influences.

 

[dysert]

Do you think it's important to hold a reasonable position?

Most of the time. It depends on what the position is.

 

[Brightmoon]

Again this is a screenshot of the original. You’ll have to google it .

 

[bhsmte]

I don't know if it's reasonable or not.

People are different.

Some folks can't reconcile a belief or accepting something in their mind, if it does not appear to be rational or logical.

Other folks, need to reconcile certain beliefs in their mind, because they provide comfort.

 

[bhsmte]

Most of the time. It depends on what the position is.

It appears you have a very good ability to compartmentalize.

 

[bhsmte]

If "invoking magic" is what you call reality beyond what can be measured, then science is rather myopic.

This post would indicate, you don't understand science very well.

 

[dysert]

People are different.

Some folks can't reconcile a belief or accepting something in their mind, if it does not appear to be rational or logical.

Other folks, need to reconcile certain beliefs in their mind, because they provide comfort.

Well put!

 

[Brightmoon]

And a lot of people just indulge in harmless delusional thinking .

 

[Kylie]

I don't know if it's reasonable or not.

How do you think you can tell if a position is reasonable?

Do you think that allowing your own personal desires to be the measure of whether something is true or not is reasonable? In other words, do you think it is reasonable to believe something is true just because you like the idea of it being true?

 

[Kylie]

Most of the time. It depends on what the position is.

Can you give me an example of where it would be desirable to hold an UNreasonable position?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

People are different.

Some folks can't reconcile a belief or accepting something in their mind, if it does not appear to be rational or logical.

Other folks, need to reconcile certain beliefs in their mind, because they provide comfort.

I found it telling how Ophiolite's house keys analogy was evaded, first by denying the hypothetical, "I knew it was the right one because I have my keys marked", then by denying it because it was hypothetical, "... the key thing is just a hypothetical example anyway, so it really doesn't matter."

It does matter; it's relevant because it points out, clearly and simply, the type of error being made.

Looks like Morton's Demon at work...

 

[Ophiolite]

Can you give me an example of where it would be desirable to hold an UNreasonable position?

Please Miss! Please Miss! I know the answer to this one: when not holding the unreasonable position would lead to the erosion and eventual dismantlement of a worldview one has held for years or decades.

 

[bhsmte]

Can you give me an example of where it would be desirable to hold an UNreasonable position?

That is unique to each person.

Some folks, have a psychological need to hold onto, or protect certain beliefs, because it would cause too much internal pain, to admit the belief is wrong.

 

[Tolworth John]

Science doesn't depend on christianity, or any other religion, at all.

What an insane thing to say...…..

Why is that insane?
Can you explain why science works?
Why in a universe, that according to evolutionary theory is caused by random events, is there mathmatical order?
Please explain this.

You acknowledge that the universe has a begining, that its origin is 'supernatural' in that it can not be explained by natural means. Yet close your mind to the idea that there is a 'super natural'.

 

[VirOptimus]

Why is that insane?
Can you explain why science works?
Why in a universe, that according to evolutionary theory is caused by random events, is there mathmatical order?
Please explain this.

You acknowledge that the universe has a begining, that its origin is 'supernatural' in that it can not be explained by natural means. Yet close your mind to the idea that there is a 'super natural'.

I actually think every statement above is wrong. Impressive

 

[DogmaHunter]

Why is that insane?

Because christianity is faith based and science is the exact opposite.

Can you explain why science works?

Because it is empirical and evidence-based.

Why in a universe, that according to evolutionary theory is caused by random events, is there mathmatical order?

1. evolution theory concerns matters of biology. Specifically, it concerns how existing life diversifies through darwinian means (descent with modification + natural selection). It has diddly squat to say about the universe.

2. math is a symbolic language that we invented to describe how the universe works. The universe works in a certain way. Math is just the symbolic description thereof. Ie, it was developed specifically for that purpose.

You acknowledge that the universe has a begining, that its origin is 'supernatural' in that it can not be explained by natural means.

I most certainly didn't ever say anything remotely like that.
I don't know how the space-time continuum got started. Neither do you. Nobody does.

Yet close your mind to the idea that there is a 'super natural'.

No. I just don't simply accept things as true that aren't supported by any evidence at all.

In this case, it's even worse then simply "not supported". It's actually unsupportable. Because it's an unfalsifiable claim.

Such claims are infinite in number and without any merrit.

To quote Prof Dawkins: "We should have an open mind. But not SO open that our brains are falling out..."

 

[Ophiolite]

People are different.

Everyone says that!