i have a question.

[GodBoy809]

lol, don't worry Dave, i agree with you fully!

 

[DaveKerwin]

Did you kneel down when you propsed....when you did so were you not only making that promise to your girl, as well as in front of God, wasnt that as if the marriage has begun...big difference in "having begun" then "being married" there is a huge process and many steps in getting married? Like you said you can baptize yourself if you really wanted to. I gave my life back to Jesus in my room one day ALONE....does this mean i really havent cause I didnt do it publically?..then do i need to have a public baptizim to ensure I am saved?...Do you also pray in the streets to announce publically your love for God?.....and on and on. Thinking public displays to God are what matters is silly.....if you are concernd with how others view you and use these public displays as such that is a whole new can of worms that should be adressed.

I asked her if she would accept my proposal for us to GET married, we are not married yet. You cannot baptized yourself. I prayed to receive Christ by myself on a stairway. Accepting Christ is not related.

Baptism and marriage have always been public events, why fight that? I don't understand the rebel mindset that wants to do everything counter. I could understand it if you want to do a marriage ceremony in a unique way, but I do not and never will understand getting RID of the ceremony altogether, which I think is absurd.

(Edit, I just read your responce about Loving God and obeyign commands, So I took out my last sentence which asked about it)

 

[DaveKerwin]

Ive read this before

I think here is where the kicker is Jesus broke so many "laws of the land" he did things his way cause he could. He didnt have to abide by them, though on many levels he did, We are followers of Christ....and in His name do can do many things. But there were many man made laws that conflicted with his teachings, and my beliefs or "sound interpretaion" of those teachings. Jesus didnt say "have a wedding and ceremony" can you find a "sound interpreatation" that he did...Im sure you can come up with one. But its still an interpreatation. I WONT submitt to the authorities if they tell me I cant pray at school, I wont submitt to the authorities if the wont allow me talk about God in public places.....thats where the world is and is going going....feel free to submitt I wont. I know where you were trying to take it.....and you must be still under the impression that I am saying a wedding and ceremony is not necesssary...I am not nor did I ever say that.....just saying and have been saying there is a lot of man made muck attached to it all.....the "laws of the land" and bended and twisted....This law I am more then willing to follow but I still dont think and will never think this is the only way for a marriage to be valid TO GOD....to the state....yes....but I dont like all the states laws ...

I used "sound interpreation" in quotes cause no such thing exists if it did....there would be no denominations. Just one unified belief structre.

Warrior Poet

Let me try again with a structured argument


1. God says he establises Government authorities (romans 13)
2. God says to obey those Govenrment authorities (romans 13)
3. The Government dictates that you need a marriage license to be married.
_________________________________________________________________
4. Therefore, God dictates that you need a marriage license to be married.

 

[Warrior Poet]

I asked her if she would accept my proposal for us to GET married, we are not married yet. You cannot baptized yourself. I prayed to receive Christ by myself on a stairway. Accepting Christ is not related

Then what is baptizim?....if its strictly a public display that you have taken God as your savior, to wash away your sins......i cant see how it would be any different then praying to for forgiveness....you are just doing it publically. Accepting Christ and baptizim are hand in hand wether you think differnet or not. You cant be baptized and not accept christ (you can be does it many anything?) Can you accept Christ and not be baptized?

Baptism and marriage have always been public events, why fight that?

LOL heres irony.....where am I fighting that?....Just saying doing it alone and in front of God, has the same equivalnt as doing it in front of a full house, but not saying its the way to go. I never said that.....YOU made it out that I said that.

I don't understand the rebel mindset that wants to do everything counter. I could understand it if you want to do a marriage ceremony in a unique way, but I do not and never will understand getting RID of the ceremony altogether, which I think is absurd.

No one is asking you to understand it.....I dont want to do EVERYTHING counter just the stuff that man has ruined with laws and money an little pieces of paper.....baptizim is a public affair I agree......should be done as such but FOR YOU not for the public to see....hence the reason why a full house and 1 person would have the same cause and efffect at a baptizim.

Edit: For the Editting yours

Warrior Poet

 

[DaveKerwin]

I see your point....yet still dont think telling someone they have cheap love for their God is gonna help em out. I can give you three quotes where he talks about forgiving the sins we have made, and but in that case you are a sinner as am I you TRY to obey those laws yet everyday we fail....so you hold this same kind of cheap love the rest of us sinners do. Now if you meant his commands and laws on sexuality and such......well thats kinda picking and choosing dont yah think?

PS: I had the morning off.....

Warrior Poet

I never said it should be used to encourage someone. JESUS said that if we love him, we will obey him. So whatever the Bible says, we are to follow if we love Christ. I love Jesus, so I will obey him. When I encounter someone who does not wish to obey God, I begin to wonder if they love him. Most times I ask if they do. My love is not cheap, it is imperfect.

There is no picking and choosing, Jesus' words apply to all the commands.

So if you love Jesus, you will obey him and abstain until you are truely married, that was my point.

 

[DaveKerwin]

1. Can you accept Christ and not be baptized?


2. I dont want to do EVERYTHING counter just the stuff that man has ruined with laws and money an little pieces of paper

1. Yes, you can. But it would be best if you were obedient to Christ in following his command to be baptized. In a similar way, if you love Christ, you will be obedient to him in marriage, as it is outlined in the scriptures.
A man will leave his father and mother (move out on his own)
Be united to his wife (get married )
And the two will become one flesh (physically and symbolically)

2. Let me ask you, has man established the law or has God?

 

[Warrior Poet]

I never said it should be used to encourage someone. JESUS said that if we love him, we will obey him. So whatever the Bible says, we are to follow if we love Christ. I love Jesus, so I will obey him. When I encounter someone who does not wish to obey God, I begin to wonder if they love him. Most times I ask if they do. My love is not cheap, it is imperfect

Not being rude bro.....but what is the purpose of the statement if you made it to tear down?? So why is your love imperfect and everyone elses cheap? You said it yourself a sin is a sin wether sexual or moral. What makes you so much better then the rest?

There is no picking and choosing, Jesus' words apply to all the commands.

Agreed. But we must apply that to ourselves as well.

So if you love Jesus, you will obey him and abstain until you are truely married, that was my point.

Point made. This was never about abstaining though. It was about marriage. Not sure why you had to pull the sex card. Marriage isnt all about sex, trust me.

The OP is lost in this mess somewhere. Good Talk.

Warrior Poet

 

[Warrior Poet]

2. Let me ask you, has man established the law or has God?

Same sex marriages...man established or God?
The question then is where is the line between God and Man establishing rules? How can we tell the difference? Are when then to still abide and live with those laws?

Warrior Poet

 

[Jamida]

AAAAAHHHHHHH!!! You guys are killin' me with this debate!! LOL ...

 

[DaveKerwin]

What makes you so much better then the rest?

Marriage isnt all about sex, trust me.

The OP is lost in this mess somewhere. Good Talk.

I am not, and never said I was.

That is a given. I brougth it up because 90% of the time christians try scooting around the marriage ceremony, it is because of sex, whether they admit it or not.

We are right on topic, the ceremony IS imortant.

 

[DaveKerwin]

Same sex marriages...man established or God?
The question then is where is the line between God and Man establishing rules? How can we tell the difference? Are when then to still abide and live with those laws?

Warrior Poet

The line is drawn when local laws contradict God's law.

 

[Warrior Poet]

I am not, and never said I was.

Well you got around the question why YOUR love is imperfect and everyone elses is cheap.

That is a given. I brougth it up because 90% of the time christians try scooting around the marriage ceremony, it is because of sex, whether they admit it or not.

Apparently not. That is a sad satistic then. I have never tried to scoot around anything. I guess that categorizes me in the top 10th percentile. Im speacial. The I guess the question I need to ask myself is am I a "christian"?

We are right on topic, the ceremony IS imortant.

Once agian and for the last time....I never said it wasnt, just said its not the only way.

Warrior Poet

 

[Warrior Poet]

The line is drawn when local laws contradict God's law.

Who interprets Gods law...me or you or someone else....we do it for ourselves as we see God has called us to do.

We do NOT live in any other time period or government of the past

So since we dont live in that time period are those laws still valid since they were implimneted then too?

There is always an exception to the rule....always, sometimes its not a good idea or wise to use the exception but it exists none the less.

Warrior Poet

 

[Warrior Poet]

AAAAAHHHHHHH!!! You guys are killin' me with this debate!! LOL ...

Its stimulating and fun. The CC forum needs a few more topics like this around. Good question GoodBoy.

Warrior Poet

 

[DaveKerwin]

Well you got around the question why YOUR love is imperfect and everyone elses is cheap.

Apparently not. That is a sad satistic then. I have never tried to scoot around anything. I guess that categorizes me in the top 10th percentile. Im speacial.

No, I did not. You garbled my words, lets review.
You said: Problem is most people cant. (wait to have sex)
& I said: The problem is not that most people can't wait for sex, the problem is that most people have a cheap love for Jesus

Meaning, the reason most christians engage in premarital sex is because they do not love Jesus as much as they love themselves. Premarital sex is pure selfishness, and shows NO evidence for a love of Christ.

I have talked to a lot of christians who have premarital sex, and 9 times out of 10, their reasoning is silly, and realistically, they just wanted to have sex without a conscience issue, but they would never admit to that. They always have some lame way out so that it is acceptable to fornicate.

 

[Warrior Poet]

ahhh

Warrior Poet

 

[DaveKerwin]

I love you WP

 

[Warrior Poet]

I Love you too bro.

Warrior Poet

 

[Katty]

ahh... teehee.... Feel the love.....

~Katty~

 

[JillLars]

That is a given. I brougth it up because 90% of the time christians try scooting around the marriage ceremony, it is because of sex, whether they admit it or not.

I get so tired of this sometimes. Everyone has different reasons for the choices they make, just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you can interpret their intentions yourself and throw out bogus numbers like this. God says that he is the only one who can judge our intentions, yet you take it upon yourself to say "You're just doing it because of sex, even though you say you aren't." Sorry, but you're not a psychic, and its not your's or anyone else's place to make assumptions about other people's intentions.