i have a question.

[DaveKerwin]

Godboy, just be a man and wait for the wedding day.

That's right, I pulled the man card.

 

[Jamida]

I don't think it's worth freaking out about. I have my opinions based on how I see this in Scripture, but my opinion is more from the standpoint of how marriage takes place before God, not so much the governmental authority over my marriage. Would I feel married if I was stranded on an island with some dude and married him without a paper license? Yeah.

My point is, vows are not meant to be taken lightly, and I believe God helped man to institute ceremonies to make the making of the vows a BIG DEAL so we remember, have witnesses, and don't make a random commitment to justify an emotional or physical high we're riding. Ceremonies force you to take the decision to be married seriously. The key is that you stay grounded in Christ and focused on Scripture, thereby being committed to keep those vows. (no offense to those who've experienced divorce for whatever reason, becuase I don't know your circumstances.)

 

[WashedClean]

I don't think it's worth freaking out about. I have my opinions based on how I see this in Scripture, but my opinion is more from the standpoint of how marriage takes place before God, not so much the governmental authority over my marriage. Would I feel married if I was stranded on an island with some dude and married him without a paper license? Yeah.

My point is, vows are not meant to be taken lightly, and I believe God helped man to institute ceremonies to make the making of the vows a BIG DEAL so we remember, have witnesses, and don't make a random commitment to justify an emotional or physical high we're riding. Ceremonies force you to take the decision to be married seriously. The key is that you stay grounded in Christ and focused on Scripture, thereby being committed to keep those vows. (no offense to those who've experienced divorce for whatever reason, becuase I don't know your circumstances.)

I agree with everything you've said in your posts, Jamida. Well done! I tried to add to your reputation, but I had already done so on another board!

Anyway, this brings up another point... Don't you think it would make sense if the states made it harder to get married? It's a little too easy, although it does take more effort than just saying a couple of vows as Jamida said. Of course, the government messes up everything they get involved in.

Not sure how they should go about that though. Maybe there should be a waiting period after you apply for a marriage license?

Any thoughts? Not trying to hijack the thread!

 

[Warrior Poet]

There is no separation of a God marriage and state marriage. They are one in the same because the ceremony is recognized by both. So there is no such thing as being "married in God's eyes", what a joke.

There is no such thing as being married in Gods eyes??...not even with a little piece of paper to say so?.....THERE IS A HUGE SEPERATION......God could care less if you get your full tax break for being married....married in GODS EYES is a loyallty as not to be ruined...in the states eyes its a piece of paper that can be negated with another piece of paper....thats the real joke.

A piece of paper matters to God BECAUSE HE TOLD US TO GET ONE!

Direct quote or interpreted?

The problem is not that most people can't wait for sex, the problem is that most people have a cheap love for Jesus, if it even should be called love.

Hmmm so there is no such thing as marriage in Gods eyes but having premaritial sex is showing a lack of love or what some call love, for Jesus??.....The problem is people are human and sin, they have sex outta wedlock, this unfortunitly has no corrilation with how much they love Jesus but more so how much they respect his laws.....that is an extremely judgemental thing to say.....nobodys perfect not even you.....but i wont say cause of that fact your love for Jesus is no such thing....thats bold...and and not very comendable.

I get really angry when people get selfish and treat God's commands so lightly.

I get mad when people are so narrow minded that they cant see the love and compassion we are called to show....I also get mad at bad movie endings....but im not sure if anger is helping the situation more then making it worse....how about you?

Warrior Poet

 

[Super Gnat]

hmm....telling teens that would be a wrong idea, they'd abuse that in a heartbeat.

Oh yeah, definitely. I only meant that in the "stranded on a desert island" sense. IOW, I think that may be a reason why we see marriage parties and stuff in the Bible, but never a specific way in which we have to be married other than "leave parents, become one flesh". However, in our culture, there is a way to be legally married that does not conflict with our beliefs. Therefore, we should get legally married, because we are to obey the law unless it conflicts with our beliefs.

 

[Warrior Poet]

Then why did God insitute sacrifial rituals in the Old Testament? The entire OT is based around laws - hence the Pentateuch - etc. Anyway, here's probably not the spot to argue theology. I just don't think you can blatantly say God isn't about rituals and ceremonies and vows when so much of the building of the Nation of Israel is based around such things.

Jesus didnt follow any of those rituals he came to free us from the man made muck that had become common place....he was a very cool dude.

I agree with the post you just made about being married on a dessert island....God would see it as such if your hearts and mind were in the right place and you made the commitment to loyalty to that person IN HIS EYES....you are married. Not saying go do this and its the WAY....just saying we need to really look and see how much paperwork and man made "muck" there really is to it all.......Go get married in a church in front of your friends and a pastor/priest....even in a court.......thats the way to go in life today.....but if you get on your knees and Pray to God "Dear Lord I give my life to this woman she is going to my wife and I take her as such for THE REST OF MY LIFE....to be loyal and commited to die to myself for her, as you have died for the church......" then you are bound to that by God....or you should have never said such a thing. The whole OP was about marriage.....im sad I participted in this....marriage isnt sex.....Ive said it once ill say it again.......I wish one thread about marriage could not turn into a debate about sex....again sorry.

Warrior Poet

 

[SirKenin]

My point is, vows are not meant to be taken lightly, and I believe God helped man to institute ceremonies to make the making of the vows a BIG DEAL so we remember, have witnesses, and don't make a random commitment to justify an emotional or physical high we're riding. Ceremonies force you to take the decision to be married seriously. The key is that you stay grounded in Christ and focused on Scripture, thereby being committed to keep those vows. (no offense to those who've experienced divorce for whatever reason, becuase I don't know your circumstances.)

So what you're talking about is tradition. Incidentally, I don't think God played a part in the marriage celebration. I think that was man's idea, in celebration of a new union. Another excuse to party. lol. I think God merely established the parameters for a union. Leaving your parents, both husband and wife (not husband and husband, sorry, that means you Uncle George and Aunt Harry).

Anyways, that's my theories based on the facts as I see them. I guess there isn't too much more I can say here.

 

[Jamida]

Jesus didnt follow any of those rituals he came to free us from the man made muck that had become common place....he was a very cool dude.


Warrior Poet

I totally agree with you ... however, he DID insitute those ceremonies to make a point, hence my reasoning behind a marriage ceremony, to "Make a point"

 

[Jamida]

I agree with everything you've said in your posts, Jamida. Well done! I tried to add to your reputation, but I had already done so on another board!


Anyway, this brings up another point... Don't you think it would make sense if the states made it harder to get married? It's a little too easy, although it does take more effort than just saying a couple of vows as Jamida said. Of course, the government messes up everything they get involved in.

Not sure how they should go about that though. Maybe there should be a waiting period after you apply for a marriage license?

Any thoughts? Not trying to hijack the thread!

I don't mind the marriage license thing, but beyond that I'd keep teh government as far away as possible! Otherwise it starts bordering on Communism. Oooo ... I see teh comments I'm going to get after saying that!!

More seriously, I agree the concept and commitment behind marriage needs to be taken more seriously by many people, however, I don't think that's the government's position to teach. It's between those people and their relationship with teh Lord - in otherwards - let's get out there and build relationships that teach people of Christ and His grace and let Christ do the monitoring!

 

[Jamida]

So what you're talking about is tradition. Incidentally, I don't think God played a part in the marriage celebration. I think that was man's idea, in celebration of a new union. Another excuse to party. lol. I think God merely established the parameters for a union. Leaving your parents, both husband and wife (not husband and husband, sorry, that means you Uncle George and Aunt Harry).

Anyways, that's my theories based on the facts as I see them. I guess there isn't too much more I can say here.

hey, we're entitled to our opinions. I agree to disagree on some points here. thanks for your insights and boisterous humor!!

 

[SirKenin]

lol I'm a bit of a character, there's no denying that. I think that's why my g/f finds me so irresistable

And yes... Everyone is entitled to their opinions. You will never find me begrudging that.

 

[Jamida]

lol I'm a bit of a character, there's no denying that. I think that's why my g/f finds me so irresistable

And yes... Everyone is entitled to their opinions. You will never find me begrudging that.

Tell your girlfriend if she ever needs to talk ...

oh ... gee... you're Canadian - go figure!!

 

[SirKenin]

Hai!!! Don't be dissin us Canadians, eh? lol

 

[GodBoy809]

Godboy, just be a man and wait for the wedding day.

That's right, I pulled the man card.

ummm....my question was "Does God approve of people just get a marriage Certificate and having no ceremoney"

i never once asked for loop holes..that was that dogma guys fault.

 

[Mrs K 2004]

GodBoy;

I think that is a very good question; one I have often asked myself!

The decision I have made is that if you are going to go to the trouble to get the marriage certificate you may as well at least have a courthouse wedding! Which to me means I should just suck it up and wait till the actual wedding! (Although that is not always the case...a friend of mine, her husband just got deployed to Iraq; and so they had a quick courthouse wedding before he left.

 

[DaveKerwin]

ummm....my question was "Does God approve of people just get a marriage Certificate and having no ceremoney"

i never once asked for loop holes..that was that dogma guys fault.

Forgive my misunderstanding. I believe that even when you go to the justice of the peace, you each need to bring a witness with you, which is a public declaration. I could be mistaken, but marriage licenses require witnesses.

I believe there is much merritt in the ceremony. Think about this.....

I will declare my love and my promises to my wife in public through the marriage ceremony, the same way I declared my love and promises to Jesus publically at my baptism. So can I baptize myself alone in the bathtub for no one to witness? I guess, but that just sounds stupid. So does not having any form of ceremony. My friend got married in his livingroom because he had no money. There was a pastor, friends and family, and I was his best man, I signed the marriage license. So why would anyone kneel down and pray for a marriage to begin? That is like baptising yourself alone in the bathroom.

The ceremony is important, if you love a woman and want her to be your wife, make the public declaration in a wedding ceremony. Don't just pray together one day and send out annoucement cards, that would be silly. Declare it like you mean it, stand in front of your loved ones and before God, THEN declare.

 

[DaveKerwin]

1. There is no such thing as being married in Gods eyes??...not even with a little piece of paper to say so?

2. Direct quote or interpreted?

3. Sex outta wedlock unfortunitly has no corrilation with how much they love Jesus

1. To me, a christian marriage is only one thing, A MARRIAGE. The state sees it as a marriage, God seees it as a marriage, I see it as a marriage. I take my committments to the government just as seriously as my committments to God. I do not separate my vows, some to God, some to the state. For this reason, I do not separate the "kind" of marriage I have. This is somewhat of a moot point.

2. Interpretation. Sound interpretation if I might add. Read this
Romans 13
Submission to the Authorities
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.



3. Yes it does! It has EVERYTHING to do with love. Obedience to Jesus is a heart issue. Jesus gave us our sexuality and rules to follow for it. See what Jesus says three times here......

John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command."
John 14:21 "Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me."
John 14:23-24 "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me."

 

[Warrior Poet]

Couldnt resist.

I will declare my love and my promises to my wife in public through the marriage ceremony, the same way I declared my love and promises to Jesus publically at my baptism. So can I baptize myself alone in the bathtub for no one to witness? I guess,

You nailed it........ you can if you wanted to.

but that just sounds stupid

So does alot of what you just said...to me. To someone else it might not be so stupid so I wouldnt go out as far as to say that much.

So why would anyone kneel down and pray for a marriage to begin? That is like baptising yourself alone in the bathroom.

Did you kneel down when you propsed....when you did so were you not only making that promise to your girl, as well as in front of God, wasnt that as if the marriage has begun...big difference in "having begun" then "being married" there is a huge process and many steps in getting married? Like you said you can baptize yourself if you really wanted to. I gave my life back to Jesus in my room one day ALONE....does this mean i really havent cause I didnt do it publically?..then do i need to have a public baptizim to ensure I am saved?...Do you also pray in the streets to announce publically your love for God?.....and on and on. Thinking public displays to God are what matters is silly.....if you are concernd with how others view you and use these public displays as such that is a whole new can of worms that should be adressed.

The ceremony is important, if you love a woman and want her to be your wife, make the public declaration in a wedding ceremony. Don't just pray together one day and send out annoucement cards, that would be silly. Declare it like you mean it, stand in front of your loved ones and before God, THEN declare.

I dont disagree with that at all....I disagree that you are thinking this is the ONLY way it can be done.

Warrior Poet

 

[Warrior Poet]

2. Interpretation. Sound interpretation if I might add. Read this
Romans 13
Submission to the Authorities
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Ive read this before

I think here is where the kicker is Jesus broke so many "laws of the land" he did things his way cause he could. He didnt have to abide by them, though on many levels he did, We are followers of Christ....and in His name do can do many things. But there were many man made laws that conflicted with his teachings, and my beliefs or "sound interpretaion" of those teachings. Jesus didnt say "have a wedding and ceremony" can you find a "sound interpreatation" that he did...Im sure you can come up with one. But its still an interpreatation. I WONT submitt to the authorities if they tell me I cant pray at school, I wont submitt to the authorities if the wont allow me talk about God in public places.....thats where the world is and is going going....feel free to submitt I wont. I know where you were trying to take it.....and you must be still under the impression that I am saying a wedding and ceremony is not necesssary...I am not nor did I ever say that.....just saying and have been saying there is a lot of man made muck attached to it all.....the "laws of the land" and bended and twisted....This law I am more then willing to follow but I still dont think and will never think this is the only way for a marriage to be valid TO GOD....to the state....yes....but I dont like all the states laws ...

I used "sound interpreation" in quotes cause no such thing exists if it did....there would be no denominations. Just one unified belief structre.

Warrior Poet

 

[Warrior Poet]

3. Yes it does! It has EVERYTHING to do with love. Obedience to Jesus is a heart issue. Jesus gave us our sexuality and rules to follow for it. See what Jesus says three times here......

John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command."
John 14:21 "Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me."
John 14:23-24 "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me."

I see your point....yet still dont think telling someone they have cheap love for their God is gonna help em out. I can give you three quotes where he talks about forgiving the sins we have made, and but in that case you are a sinner as am I you TRY to obey those laws yet everyday we fail....so you hold this same kind of cheap love the rest of us sinners do. Now if you meant his commands and laws on sexuality and such......well thats kinda picking and choosing dont yah think?

PS: I had the morning off.....

Warrior Poet