EveOfGrace:
You might say that we are spiritually alive, but then you might not. Paul said that we will be changed instantaneously at the "rapture" (whatever that is/was since we have a preterist here). That is the kind of "making alive" we are talking about, not a resurrection for judgment. So again, you have to try to limit the all which cannot be fairly done.
The bottom line is that this passage most clearly says that every human being will be "made alive" in Christ. If you think that the rest of the Bible makes this impossible, then you can either throw the whole thing away, shove these verses aside (maybe the Holy Spirit was having a bad day?) or consider that there may be a translation problem. I've opted for the third choice.
The word "resurrection" is used in many contexts, but "to be made alive in Christ" (as opposed to dying in Adam) clearly speaks to me of the after-life resurrection that the "saved" partake of. When I said spiritual, I mean the spiritual body. The same kind that Jesus recieved as the firstfruits of the resurrection.
Concerning "It is finished":
Let's not get started. Exactly what Jesus meant by saying that is in sharp dispute. There seems to be at least a few options. He might have meant all of them as well.
Concerning preterism:
I'm going to finish that book before I get involved
Concerning mistranslations of the Bible and changing the "truth":
Like Pilate said; what is truth? Jesus is truth! Pilate was staring Truth in the face when he asked that question! Our translations of the Bible are a shadow of truth at best. I'm not talking about making meaningless changes to sentences. I'm talking about mistranslations that change the
content of the sentence, and thus the Bible itself. You can't pretend that the myriads of translations don't contradict one another in certain points. Don't make me start digging up references. The instances of "forever" removed from the KJV alone are staggering.
"I have seen the power of God fall just by raising the book itself into the air."
Perhaps that was the power of faith not the power of the book. And perhaps that had nothing to do with God. I know a bunch of Baptists who would love to argue with you that all of that crazy Pentecostal/Charismatic stuff is of the devil (not that I would agree; though some of it might be due to over-enthusiasm).
Concerning your logic of people needing to be saved before the "heavens and earth pass away":
This is extremely unsubstantiated. You've basically given me your theological understanding of all the detailed reasons why man exists in his current state. In doing so, you've made some assumptions that many would disagree with. For example, you seem to think that God merely foresaw the possibility of man falling due to His bestowing man with free-will. That is debatable.
Certainly there is nothing that man can do to warrant God's grace. It must be a gift. But what about "accepting" the gift in faith before we die? Isn't that a sort of work? If salvation is truly a free gift, then it should always be available, even after death. And though we may not deserve God's forgiveness and grace, I don't believe that means we deserve to be torturted for eternity either. That's ridiculous.
Concerning spiritual/physical resurrection:
Again, it's not so much that the resurrection is spiritual or physical, it's just that people who are "made alive in Christ" are clearly "saved". Otherwise, you would be saying that Jesus had to die just as much to raise the righteous as to raise the sinners for condemnation. That is a notion that I do not find to be tenable.
Concerning die verses died:
Don't forget that the Greek tense allows for a translation of died as well. All died in Adam spiritually, just as you said, before they were even born. They were conceived in death. In the same way, all will be made alive because of Christ. That is, restored to the pre Adamic state. The work of Adam will be reversed and every person will live. Again, Christ didn't die to raise sinners to an everlasting torment. If that is the price of raising the righteous (who can't even be righteous accept by God's gift through faith), then God is selfish in the extreme. Could you happily accept God's gift of salvation knowing that for each saved individual, God was forced to sacrifice another 10 or so (I'm being generous here) people to eternal torment?
Sounds pretty sick to me.
Concerning parousia:
Not to defend preterism, but there's nothing in the word that necessarily implies a physical coming (though I think a lot of other words imply a physical coming).
Concerning "whom He will":
This does not at all mean that He will not give life to all in time. It simply suggests that Jesus has the power to give life to whom He will. I believe He will give life to those who are repentant and receive the gift in faith. And eventually, all will do that.
Concerning the "making alives":
Yes. Christ was the first. We, at his
parousia are the second, then "the rest" are the third which will be when Jesus himself puts all in subjection to him and then subjects himself to the Father. I don't necessarily think of the resurrection of the unrighteous at the end of 1000 years to be the third "making alive". It seems to me that anyone who is "made alive in Christ" would not need to have their part in the lake of fire. So I would consider the resurrection unto condemnation at the end of the 1000 to be a different thing entirely. Perhaps not though. Maybe they will be "made alive" at the end of the 1000 years and then thrown into the lake of fire for purging.
Concerning "saved by faith":
The word can be translated delivered. The question is, saved/delivered from what? From sin? From the wages of sin which is death? From Hell/Hades? The lake of fire? Eternal torment, annihilation, purgatory? What exactly are we trying to save people from?
I'm still studying on that one. I'll get back to you.
Concerning adjectives and their nouns:
Take life-time for example. You have a life-time gaurantee! He suffered a life-time of hardship. Etc.
Where does this compound adjective get its force? From the object it describes. The duration of the noun's life give's the adjective it's duration. And most importantly, a life-time gaurantee is not eternal. It takes it's force from the noun form of the word which is life. Aionios is like that with regard to aion.
Concerning eternal torment and God's power:
So you think God has a choice (a good thought) and that He willingly decides to torment people forever? For what purpose would He do such a thing? Does it give Him His jollies?
Concerning "My God, My God...":
Jesus was quoting a Psalm to bring it to the minds of the Jewish people who could here him. The psalm vividly described to anyone with ears to hear what was occuring on that very day. Either way, Jesus still abided the presence of evil in a most gruesome manner. Did the flesh give Jesus a power that God doesn't have?
Concerning "die once then judgment":
And before we die we live. And afterwards, we are in Hades before the judgment. So now, what is the judgment and what happens after it? That says nothing about when man can and can't come to repentance.
Concerning Genesis 6:3
Remember, that forever does not mean forever. The point of that verse is that men would die (on earth) rather than live forever. Nothing more.
He can stop tormenting the wicked at some point because they will eventually repent? Hmm, 6000 years is not long enough? Is His death on a cruel cross something that should be mocked and rejected without regard to His faithfulness?
How silly. No one lived for 6000 years. And no, if there is one person left burning in agony forever, then God did not wait long enough. Do you believe that God literally "rested" as if He were tired? Seriously now.
So a less sadistic doctrine is to let the wicked mockers and rejecters above, and the armies of the anitchrist who torture His faithful servants, to join them in His Holy City. Is that better? All we have to do is pass them through the fire and all is well. We can just FORCE them to repent. Oh what Love that would be. Brothers and sisters who were tortured into salvation. I dont see the Love in that. I am your sister, but only cuz i got burned alive, not cuz i really love you.Wow, look at your self-righteousness and become apalled.
The Bible does not say that they will simply "join" the Saints in the Holy City. And to say that they "just" have to pass through the lake of fire is far to simplistic. We have no idea what will go on "in" there (and I seriously doubt people will literally be burning in a fire). And who said anything about forcing them to repent? Were you forced to repent? One might say that you were considering the threat of eternal torment that was hung over your head.
Do you
want your enemies to burn in the lake of fire forever? You're supposed to love your enemies. Is it ok to stop loving them once God has tossed them in the LoF to roast forever? If not, will you ever be happy in heaven? Maybe God will perpetuate a huge lie and erase the memories of the unsaved from everyone's mind. Or maybe, upon getting to heaven, everyone will become just as sadistic as God
Sorry, no one will ever convince me that eternal torment is a reality. It's just too silly.
So, ready to start supporting abortion? All those babies go straight to heaven and skip right past this whole faith mess where the vast majority fail the test (even though it's a free gift) and end up suffering forever.
Listen carefully:
something is wrong with our view of Christianity. It does not make sense.
Something is dreadfully wrong here. I pray that you see it sooner rather than later.
