I dont think we can bring thoughts captive.What is your opinion?

[KingZzub]

Isn't it amazing that people are agruing that they cannot control their own minds but can control other peoples?!

Even if the passage says that we are to take control of other people's thoughts with the truth, then it is obvious we can take control of our own thoughts with the gospel. I can take my own thoughts captive, this is not theory to me, I do it and so do millions of Christians across the world.

Blessings,
Ben

 

[probinson]

Of course they support this view. All translations say the same thing. We have just been (mis)taught to read “my” thoughts into the text (eisegesis) instead of “their” thoughts.

Actually, most translations (even the ones you just quoted) make no distinction between "my" thoughts and "their" thoughts. It simply says every thought should be brought into captivity.

Mine, yours and theirs.

 

[Charles L. Blackman]

2Cr 10:3For 1063 though we walk 4043 in 1722 the flesh 4561, we do 4754 0 not 3756 war 4754 after 2596 the flesh 4561:

2Cr 10:4(For 1063 the weapons 3696 of our 2257 warfare 4752 [are] not 3756 carnal 4559, but 235 mighty 1415 through God 2316 to 4314 the pulling down 2506 of strong holds 3794

2Cr 10:5Casting down 2507 imaginations 3053, and 2532 every 3956 high thing 5313 that exalteth itself 1869 against 2596 the knowledge 1108 of God 2316, and 2532 bringing into captivity 163 every 3956 thought 3540 to 1519 the obedience 5218 of Christ 5547;



No offense here, look at the red words. If I (no theologian or minister), can read english properly, the writer is addressing his audience and including himself.

we walk
we do
our warfare


So why wouldn't it be our thoughts, collectively.

I just had a family meeting last night where I instructed our boys on how I expect them to keep their bedrooms clean over the summer. I spoke to them about how we keep our rooms tidy, we put our clothes away and we hang up our towels in the bathroom.

Even my 5 year old knew that when I said we, it meant he is responcible for his own. To me, this scripture is just as plain as that.

It sounds to me that you're arguing symantics and missing the real meaning.

Didn't the same author write in Philipeans that we were to think on certain things?

 

[JimB]

Actually, most translations (even the ones you just quoted) make no distinction between "my" thoughts and "their" thoughts. It simply says every thought should be brought into captivity.

Mine, yours and theirs.

We are at another impasse.

Imagine that.

~Jim

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.​

​

 

[nhisname]

A pastor used to always tell us in his church,they had to bring every thought captive because they are powerful things,that can create circumstances.

In my opinion the whole idea of bringing every thought captive is ridiculous.No one can.They often come as fast as a lightning bolt anyway,and sometimes as fast as you get rid of one, there is another to replace it.

It says in Philippians to dwell on good things,amen to that.

Often people will misquote 2 Corinthians 10:5.
There Paul was saying he would bring every thought captive.It was not his own thoughts. He meant it as if to say,I will bring down every argument,and all your thoughts,as per your false ministry.As he was going to confront them,not his own arguments or thoughts.

So anyway,I don’t know if this is debate worthy or not.To me,thoughts are not that powerful as far as affecting things in a supernatural way.Yes,they can make us not realize our potentials and such.I just don’t hink they matter that much,or in a “magical” sense that he implied.Like those in the church were making things happen by their thoughts 'out there" if you understand what I mean.Thanks.

What are your thoughts?

All sin starts with a thought. It is up to the individual whether he allows it to be active, let's face it we are human and weak in the flesh. If a sinful thought pops into our head for no apparent reason I believe it is from satan. The Lord not only disiplines us for bad behavior but for entertaining sinful thoughts. I have been guilty of this, I'm afraid. I believe this is why we need to put the full armor of God on and pray for the renewal of mind and for his protection over our thoughts, especially before we pray. Before I started doing this my mind would wander all over the place when trying to pray.

 

[victoryword]

Well, well, well. Now the non-WoF must re-examine yet another passage of Scripture that is normally plain and clear to tell us that it does not mean what it says. I guess nothing in God's Word is plain and clear to many of the folks here.

 

[probinson]

We are at another impasse.

Imagine that.

Just so I'm clear, is the reason you say we are at an impasse is because you believe 2 Corinthians 10:5 is saying that we should take other people's thoughts captive, but not our own, or IOW, every thought EXCEPT our own?

 

[nephilimiyr]

Is this a discussion of the resurrection of Christ?

Maybe I misread the OP.

Try to stay focused, Neph. You're off topic on the very first post.

Yeah, that's true, it is off topic for me to ask that question but he asked me for my thoughts and I just can't see how the Bible can emphatically say one thing and not believe it. Of course we can hold our thoughts captive. If it's a temptation you can hold it captive and make it obedient to Christ, most certainly.

As for the other translations of the verse, perhaps a word study in the Greek would be better in finding out what Paul actually said?

 

[nephilimiyr]

Just so I'm clear, is the reason you say we are at an impasse is because you believe 2 Corinthians 10:5 is saying that we should take other people's thoughts captive, but not our own, or IOW, every thought EXCEPT our own?

That sounds real creepy the way you put it, are they talking about mind control through telepathy maybe? or am I going off topic again?

 

[probinson]

...but he asked me for my thoughts and I just can't see how the Bible can infatically say one thing and not believe it...

Pedant alert...

I believe the word you are looking for is emphatically.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Excuse me,but Paul was clearly talking about taking on THEIR thoughts.

First,notice he was addressing the false apostles,much of the letter was about them.He wanted to come to them,as he was talkining about them.

2 Corinthians1-2
By the meekness and gentleness of Christ, I appeal to you—I, Paul, who am "timid" when face to face with you, but "bold" when away! 2I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world.

Here we see where Paul was ready to fight the false teachers,whom later in Chapter 11,he called them "angels of light".Those whom were deceiving the church as per 11"4 "The super apostles" (verse 5).It was their arguments and pretensions Paul was speaking of,not his own.

2 Corinthians4-5
The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ


And here wee see he was ready to punish them,not himself.

2 Corinthians 6
And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.

Thank you.

When verse 4 talks about strongholds I mainly see that as strongholds that the enemy, e.i., Satan and his minions set up or create. So when they come at us and tempt us with a thought to establish a sin stronghold within us, we can take that thought that has come to us and stop it in it's tracks before it conceives with a desire that is in us.

James 1:14-15, but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

The moment we are tempted with a thought we hold it captive before it can conceive with our evil desire and ineffect thwart the birth of sin. Thoughts, and or temptations, have to conceive with our desires inorder for there to be sin in us.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Pedant alert...

I believe the word you are looking for is emphatically.

I knew that was wrong but I was too lazy to look it up.

 

[nephilimiyr]

2 Cor. 10:5 KJV, Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

The weapons are for the casting down of two things: imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God. Both of these areas are dealing with the mind. Our battles against Satan and his minions takes place in our minds.

The "high things" include anything that opposes the true knowledge about God and Christ as revealed in the Bible. The KJV says, "every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God" I suppose we might be able to then include men in this picture, but remember...
Epheseians 6:12, For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

The mind is the battlefield in which thoughts and reasonings contrary to God's Word are to be captured and submitted to Christ. Just as enemy soldiers are captured in war, so to rebelious thoughts can be taken captive and made to submit to Christ.

Paul's saying it's not only possible, but our spiritual weapons were designed for the purpose of taking every thought captive and making them obedient to Christ. Keeping our minds centered on the Lord is obtainable, not that I have completely obtained it though.

It's a war and battles will be won and lost.

 

[JimB]

Well, well, well. Now the non-WoF must re-examine yet another passage of Scripture that is normally plain and clear to tell us that it does not mean what it says. I guess nothing in God's Word is plain and clear to many of the folks here.

Exactly. How you and those who have taught you could miss the “plain and clear” teaching of 2 Cor. 10.5 is a mystery to me. You have to have help to be that misguided.

You have been believers so long now that you ought to be teaching others. Instead, you need someone to teach you again the basic things about God’s word. (Heb. 5.12)

~Jim

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.​

 

[probinson]

...the “plain and clear” teaching of 1 Cor. 10.5 is a mystery to me. You have to have help to be that misguided. ...

You're so busy arguing, you got the scripture reference wrong. Again.

Lucky for you, some of us "misguided" people are actually paying attention to help you with such things.

Oh the irony.

2 Corinthians 10:5 (AMP)
[Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),
​

 

[visionary]

2 Cor. 10:5 KJV, Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

The weapons are for the casting down of two things: imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God. Both of these areas are dealing with the mind. Our battles against Satan and his minions takes place in our minds.

The "high things" include anything that opposes the true knowledge about God and Christ as revealed in the Bible. The KJV says, "every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God" I suppose we might be able to then include men in this picture, but remember...
Epheseians 6:12, For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

The mind is the battlefield in which thoughts and reasonings contrary to God's Word are to be captured and submitted to Christ. Just as enemy soldiers are captured in war, so to rebelious thoughts can be taken captive and made to submit to Christ.

Paul's saying it's not only possible, but our spiritual weapons were designed for the purpose of taking every thought captive and making them obedient to Christ. Keeping our minds centered on the Lord is obtainable, not that I have completely obtained it though.

It's a war and battles will be won and lost.

this needs to be repeated.. just in case anyone missed it... very important to dealing with one of the most important battles the Christian faces.. for it is not the enemies without that are the most dangerous, but those that are within.

 

[Rising SON]

Isn't it amazing that people are agruing that they cannot control their own minds but can control other peoples?!

Even if the passage says that we are to take control of other people's thoughts with the truth, then it is obvious we can take control of our own thoughts with the gospel. I can take my own thoughts captive, this is not theory to me, I do it and so do millions of Christians across the world.

Blessings,
Ben

I am not talking so much about what to do with the thoughts.Just saying everyone gets them.

 

[probinson]

I am not talking so much about what to do with the thoughts.Just saying everyone gets them.

Then the title of your OP, "I dont[sic] think we can bring thoughts captive..." is not descriptive of what you're asking.

Of course we all have thoughts. The scripture never intimates anything different.

What the scripture does tell us is what to do with those thoughts; ..take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I am not talking so much about what to do with the thoughts.Just saying everyone gets them.

Oh sure everyone gets them, some more than others. It's about what we do with them once they're there germinateing in our mind.

Do we allow the evil thought or temptation to conceive with a desire that is in us and let it settle in our hearts, and thus sin? Or once we get the thought or temptation do we stop it in it's tracks and hold it hostage until the revelation of God's word can destroy it?

 

[Rising SON]

Well, well, well. Now the non-WoF must re-examine yet another passage of Scripture that is normally plain and clear to tell us that it does not mean what it says. I guess nothing in God's Word is plain and clear to many of the folks here.

Actually it is pretty clear.Paul was talking about taking on them,their teachings,their thoughts as he was going to see them.The church,where they were.

2 Corinthians 10:2
I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world.

He was talking abut them.

12We do not dare to classify or compare ourselves with some who commend themselves. When they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are not wise. 13We, however, will not boast beyond proper limits, but will confine our boasting to the field God has assigned to us, a field that reaches even to you.