I don't like the direction where society is going

[ewq1938]

Also, how many different interpretations do you think there are of Revelation?

How high do numbers go?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

How high do numbers go?

In a rocket, they can go to the planets. How high is that ?
Millions or billions of km ?

 

[VCR-2000]

Only One Authorized

I guess we can't figure it out directly.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I guess we can't figure it out directly.

Figure what out ?

 

[PloverWing]

Well for either Christian or secular reasons too, what really is in front of me now is that modern "political correctness" and everyone being very offended about minor things, I am very supportive of the first amendment and freedom of speech. That is the biggest one I'm thinking about.

And before everything converted to digital technology (and that changed people in many ways too), there was something more special beyond the experience of how stuff worked. An example is cinema, today cinema has changed to all-digital and it's more closer to just popping a disc in and hitting play, while 35mm film has a more special and mechanical meaning. I don't really dislike social networking or other modern things per se, but we never see the old ways and knowledge of doing stuff anymore because they are almost extinct.

I agree that our culture is at a difficult point right now, in regard to the problem of speech being a minefield of possible accidental offenses. I wouldn't want to return to the kinds of overt exclusion and discrimination we had in the 60s; at the same time, it does now often feel like we're on edge all the time, trying not to say things that will offend the people around us. I expect our culture will settle down a bit as everyone gets used to the new kinds of mutual respect that we now expect from each other; the new norms will become comfortable, and then we'll be able to relax and joke around with each other a little more.

Technology is a mix. I really like being able to create documents on a computer, where I can easily edit them and can print multiple copies at the touch of a button, instead of having to use a typewriter. And my mp3 files don't wear out the way my old cassette tapes did. On the other hand, there's way too much plastic in my life. When I was a kid, more of the things around me were made of wood or metal or glass, and I wish we still had more of those older materials in our tools and toys.

 

[Seadish]

In my generation I think I'm a pretty odd one. I am in my 20s my first decade as an adult, but I don't like the 2010s world and wish I was at that age during the 50s to early-90s. I feel like it's reached near disaster point and society won't recover not even 20 or 30 years back. I don't have a really bright feeling about all the technology that will change everything and who we are either, even though I use some of it myself. It would've been nicer to grow up when tech was more simple and primitive, and there was a better window to improve things. Like God says "Oh I'm sorry I can't fix it even though your ancestors before you screwed it all up", I have lately become very militant about my point of view.

I totally agree and I'm guessing God is very close to being done with this mess not a great way to phrase it but nonetheless.

 

[JackRT]

I was born in 1943 and have lived my life in Canada and personally I like how society is evolving. I have seen women gradually gain their full stature in society as the equals of men. I have seen people of colour gaining their full stature in society as the equals of whites. I have seen the collapse of the Soviet Union and of Aparthied in South Africa. I have seen the LBGTQ people begin to be treated --- well, treated as people. I have seen the blossoming of medicine and the eradication of many diseases. I have seen immense advances in science leading great improvements in the standard of living and the quality of life throughout the world. Certainly there are problems that need to be solved. A serious one being the increasing wealth gap between the immensely rich and the average person. I am also troubled by the persistence of racism, of xenophobia, of misogyny, of homophobia --- but I remain optimistic.

 

[Andrew77]

Also, how many different interpretations do you think there are of Revelation?

How would I know? The guy next door in his basement could make up his own version of what the entire Bible means. So I suppose infinite interpretations.

Regardless, I go by the plainly spoken words in the book, which are fairly conclusive and universally accepted. I personally have never been to any church, or listened to any teaching by any widely recognized teacher, who said revelations will happen when the whole Earth is following Jesus.

All, meaning, every single one I have ever listened to, agrees that true faith will be a persecuted minority on the Earth.

Why did Jesus himself, ask in Luke 18 "However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

I think he was really asking the question.... will there be faith left on the Earth?

 

[VCR-2000]

How would I know? The guy next door in his basement could make up his own version of what the entire Bible means. So I suppose infinite interpretations.

Regardless, I go by the plainly spoken words in the book, which are fairly conclusive and universally accepted. I personally have never been to any church, or listened to any teaching by any widely recognized teacher, who said revelations will happen when the whole Earth is following Jesus.

All, meaning, every single one I have ever listened to, agrees that true faith will be a persecuted minority on the Earth.

Why did Jesus himself, ask in Luke 18 "However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

I think he was really asking the question.... will there be faith left on the Earth?

I guess that everyone believes in some vision of Revelation, but they just believe the details or "how" is different. I say that having been raised in the Roman Catholic tradition. I don't really remember the "end times" specifically as a highly emphasized teaching in my church growing up, maybe only seldom.

 

[JackRT]

I guess that everyone believes in some vision of Revelation, but they just believe the details or "how" is different. I say that having been raised in the Roman Catholic tradition. I don't really remember the "end times" specifically as a highly emphasized teaching in my church growing up, maybe only seldom.

I was RC for my first 30 years and I simply can't remember any sermons or even any lessons (14 years in RCC education) on the book much less any "rapture/tribulation" speculation.

 

[Andrew77]

I guess that everyone believes in some vision of Revelation, but they just believe the details or "how" is different. I say that having been raised in the Roman Catholic tradition. I don't really remember the "end times" specifically as a highly emphasized teaching in my church growing up, maybe only seldom.

Exactly. Similarly, while we were taught what the book of revelations says, it was not emphasized at my church either.

You can look through various interpretation of what the stinging flying insect things with human heads means... I have no idea.

The pastor of a church I used to attend said that it was Peter describing helicopters. My parents church, said they were..... possibly really disgusting looking insects that stung people. Still another said... it's a flying insect like thing with human heads, that came from a pit in the ground.

Which of those is the right one? More importantly what difference does it make?

A ton of people are going to be harmed by the judgements. That's all I really need to know. Jesus is going to return, and he is going to righteously judge the evil of humanity. That's all I really need to know.

Most people by the end times, will have rejected G-d. That's all I need to know. Right?

All the more reason to be thankful for the forgiveness found in the Lord Jesus, who is merciful to all who come to him.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You can look through various interpretation of what the stinging flying insect things with human heads means... I have no idea.

Best guess, either Yahweh created them,
or they are being made in secret, in facilities around the wrold.

 

[JackRT]

Best guess, either Yahweh created them,
or they are being made in secret, in facilities around the wrold.

They are an image in the creative imagination of John of Patmos.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

They are an image in the creative imagination of John of Patmos.

Only to you then, and to others who deny Jesus Word.

 

[JackRT]

Only to you then, and to others who deny Jesus Word.

Why link me with them?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Jesus' Word Says it was not anyone's imagination.

 

[expos4ever]

I think a sober appraisal of things leads to a much happier conclusion: the world is generally getting much, much better. And technology, despite its risks and problems, is clearly a boon to humanity.

The data are quite clear - lifespans are increasing, literacy is up, poverty is down, women are becoming equal, the world is becoming less violent, democracy is growing, totalitarianism is down, and on and on.

Sure, technology can be complicated and often frustrating. But think of its benefits:

- medical tech that saves lives and reduces suffering;
- access to a vast amount of information with a few clicks;
- new forms of energy that can reduce pollution;
- affordable worldwide transportation;
- etc.

Now to be sure, it is possible that we will do ourselves in through our own technology. On balance, though, there are reasons to see this as relatively unlikely.

 

[expos4ever]

The rampant immorality right now is so discouraging.

What immorality? Sexual immorality, perhaps?

Well perhaps - I concede a case can be made that sexual immorality is growing.

But there are many other dimensions of morality that are more important - how often we kill each other, how we treat animals, how much we enslave each other, etc. etc.

I suggest in almost all respects, human morality is getting better with time - women are becoming more equal, people kill each other a lot less, slavery has been basically abolished.

Morality is not all about the groin.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

.......

 

[VCR-2000]

Some things, yes speaking overall for the "rest of the world" maybe, but per country or population things aren't necessarily getting better and are in fact declining.