I dont know what to do with my terrible 2

Winter · Dec 30, 2010

WA, you mean the parents didn't address him at all? See, this is what I've observed nowadays. I was in the bookstore recently and this 5 year old and a toddler were screaming MOM, MOM, MOM!!! and they were throwing books and stuff. And mom just says in a sweet pacifying voice: "Now Jordan, behave." That's it. I was astonished. And this is not the first time - I've seen this happen countless times, not just with toddlers but even older children.

All I know is that when I was a kid, my mom gave me the "look" and I knew I had to stop. If I ever behaved that way, she'd let me know she was angry and that was enough to get me to stop. And no, I wasn't spanked either as a kid. I didn't have to be spanked. I knew the rules.

You know, I do a lot of travelling and I don't see children behave like this in other parts of the world. I'm sorry, I just don't. Don't flame me folks, I see what I see. Something about children in this country - they're bouncing off the walls. Are we raising them differently than we did 40 years ago? Do American kids have more stimulation (i.e. tv, electronic games)? Are we pumping them with too much artificial colors, flavors, and crap in their foods? I mean really, what is it?? I want to know.

What are we doing differently than other parents throughout the world - and what are we doing differently than our grandparents 40 years ago?

_Shannon_ · Dec 30, 2010

I just wanted to say that we don't do punishments, and my 2 and 3 year olds do not act like what WA described. Personally, if someone brought their child into my home and they acted like that, they would not be invited back. No wishing about it.

There re lots of things waaaay different about how American treats her babies and toddlers. A baby born in America is far more likely to have been born by c-section, to have been exposed to induction, and epidural medication, to be separated from momma after birth, to not be breastfeeding, to not be in physical contact with momma for most of the day for most of the first year, to sleep alone. Babies have chemical overlaod in the form of plastic bottles, plastic diapers, plastic baby food containers, plastic wrapped mattresses, plastic coated clothing. Babies and young children spend very little time outside. Mothers are more likely to be working, and be stressed and to suffer PPD. Mother's and babies are consuming vast amounts of crap in their diet--high fructose corn syrup, antibiotics and artificial hormones in milk and meat.

We are just a giant tangled mess of disconnection-parents and children.

Winter · Dec 30, 2010

Good points. These factors have crossed my mind, too. I think our modern world is rewiring who we are as humans - not just kids but even adults. And I agree - there seems to be a disconnect with our children and even with nature in general.

A study released recently claimed that mothers who constantly chatted on their cell phones while the baby was in the womb and even after, had a higher chance of having a child with behavior problems. I usually take such studies lightly but my own instincts have told me that our modern behaviors could indirectly be affecting children.

JacktheCatholic · Dec 30, 2010

Brikkz said:
I am at my wits ends with my son. He's going on 3 and he's always I mean always bad. He is right now at 2 a.m wide awake and screaming in the corner in a smart alecky tone in my direction. I keep saying look at the wall look at the wall look at the wall because he wont sleep. I was feeding my 11 week old and he was chasing the cat all around the bedroom and making loud noises. So I grabbed him and put him in time out. He's been in time out more than 5 times tonight. I put him in, make him apologize, he does apologize then he's back to the same old same old. He's making 3 in February so he's not newly a 2 year old.

I keep getting angry so I won't spank before anyone suggests it I refuse to spank when I am angry. I haven't been happy with my son or able to enjoy him since before the new baby was born. He's always so mean. He blasts the new baby in the side of the head with his foot and we don't even leave him alone he'll sneak attack us when I am still holding the baby. So its not like I am not watching. I have been able to prevent a lot of injuries by pulling the baby away faster than he can do something.

Then he attacks our cat who is just lying around...my son will run up and screech at the cat and just go nuts.

We do so much with my son one on one so its not like we're ignoring him by spending time with the baby. Whenever we can we do stuff with our son. My husband got a Thomas and Friends DVD from the store to watch with my son and he watches it with my son on his computer every so often. I bought my son a Vtech Nitro Notebook JR and showed him how to play a game on there and he's really good at it so we play it together quite often.

We go out and bring him to the store to help us grocery shop etc

Whenever he's at home he's bad or whenever I am home he's bad. MY husband says he behaves okay when I am not here.

I need my job but if I didn't I would quit in a heart beat because this is so stressful.

My blood boils anymore whenever I deal with him because he's being a smart alec every chance he gets.
Me: Mommy's going to help you brush your teeth, okay?
A: I don't want to. (in a smart alec tone)
Me: Come on upstairs and let's clean your teeth for mommy I will be easy.
A: No
Me: Scoops him up and drags him up since he wouldn't comply and at this point my blood is boiling

Then
A: (attacking the cat, bothering etc)
Me: Take's A's hand and brings him to me and says "A that hurts kitty. Its not nice to pull his tail (or its not nice to do this and that) so don't do that anymore okay?"
A: Okay I sorry
FIVE SECONDS LATER he's back on the cat.

These are just a couple things he does. He does all kinds of BAD BAD things. I am afraid the baby is going to be severely injured because of my son's malicious acting out and being mean.
I want to quit work because he's behaving like a troubled child.
He's making me so angry anymore. I stopped spanking a long time ago but my patience is being tested and I am proving to fail because I am starting to scream at him. So I traded spankings for screaming and steaming.
I almost wish I had that British nanny broad because I am a terrible mom. If I can't handle my 2 year old then I must be a bad mom.

Sorry this is so long advice please.

Make sure time outs are not too long. It needs to be age appropriate. Also, it can turn into neglect where the child feels unloved and may cry out more because he wants affection.

Since I do not know how long and often you use time outs I cannot comment there. But if you like I can check with my wife who has studied this far more than me, on appropriate times for a 3 year old. She studied "Love and Logic" and it is developed by professionals in this area.

JacktheCatholic · Dec 30, 2010

Fantine said:
There's something called oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) but I don't know if that's something that crops up at age 2. They are called "the terrible twos," you know.

There might be some sibling rivalry involved, too, and he may be trying to get your attention.

When my children were that age, I would use the time outs, and they were more for me than for them, I think. I would set the kitchen timer for 5 or 10 minutes so that I wouldn't get so enamored of the temporary calm that I'd let 10 minutes morph into 20.

I think most siblings have rivalry and this is good but we need to develop that into a good energy versus a bad. We need to teach the children to share and know they are loved equally even when things seem different in how the siblings are treated.

Anhelyna · Dec 30, 2010

Can I please reinforce my plea that you refer to yourselves as I when talking with your children

Husbands/ partners / friends / relatives / younger children / older children address you as Mommy and the child with whom you are in conversation must address you as Mommy . You must not call yourself Mommy when in direct conversation with the child - it confuses him and can lead to more problems of identity

JacktheCatholic · Dec 30, 2010

Catherineanne said:
I am sorry, but this is not acceptable, imo.

It is not appropriate to label a perfectly ordinary little boy as potentially ODD. We are not doctors, and we do not have the right to throw this kind of comment around, about a little boy that we do not know, but who, to my mind at least, is behaving perfectly normally for a toddler with a new sibling in the family.

Less pathologising, therefore. More understanding of what 'normal' is, in relation to a very confused, very frustrated little boy.

I agree

Only someone licensed to make such observations should be giving such advise.

JacktheCatholic · Dec 30, 2010

Winter said:
WA, you mean the parents didn't address him at all? See, this is what I've observed nowadays. I was in the bookstore recently and this 5 year old and a toddler were screaming MOM, MOM, MOM!!! and they were throwing books and stuff. And mom just says in a sweet pacifying voice: "Now Jordan, behave." That's it. I was astonished. And this is not the first time - I've seen this happen countless times, not just with toddlers but even older children.

All I know is that when I was a kid, my mom gave me the "look" and I knew I had to stop. If I ever behaved that way, she'd let me know she was angry and that was enough to get me to stop. And no, I wasn't spanked either as a kid. I didn't have to be spanked. I knew the rules.

You know, I do a lot of travelling and I don't see children behave like this in other parts of the world. I'm sorry, I just don't. Don't flame me folks, I see what I see. Something about children in this country - they're bouncing off the walls. Are we raising them differently than we did 40 years ago? Do American kids have more stimulation (i.e. tv, electronic games)? Are we pumping them with too much artificial colors, flavors, and crap in their foods? I mean really, what is it?? I want to know.

What are we doing differently than other parents throughout the world - and what are we doing differently than our grandparents 40 years ago?

I have witnessed the same.

One of the reasons I am homeschooling is to be the guiding force in their development now. I think the school systems are different and have some kind of negative impact on the children. This is my opinion and not necessarily a fact but regardless I think home schooling is our best choice in my household.

KeenanParkerII · Dec 30, 2010

_Shannon_ said:
I just wanted to say that we don't do punishments, and my 2 and 3 year olds do not act like what WA described. Personally, if someone brought their child into my home and they acted like that, they would not be invited back. No wishing about it.

There re lots of things waaaay different about how American treats her babies and toddlers. A baby born in America is far more likely to have been born by c-section, to have been exposed to induction, and epidural medication, to be separated from momma after birth, to not be breastfeeding, to not be in physical contact with momma for most of the day for most of the first year, to sleep alone. Babies have chemical overlaod in the form of plastic bottles, plastic diapers, plastic baby food containers, plastic wrapped mattresses, plastic coated clothing. Babies and young children spend very little time outside. Mothers are more likely to be working, and be stressed and to suffer PPD. Mother's and babies are consuming vast amounts of crap in their diet--high fructose corn syrup, antibiotics and artificial hormones in milk and meat.

We are just a giant tangled mess of disconnection-parents and children.

You sound super knowledgeable. I read even your first post in this thread. My older sister's having a baby. Stay on the forum so we can consult you k?

Antisock · Dec 30, 2010

What would Jesus Mary and Joseph do?

Sorry but I can't bear to read another get advice about how to beat or control your kid thread and I figure thats what this is without even looking. Am I right?

WHY on Earth would you come here for advice on how to parent a child? Do you want them all screwed up?

JacktheCatholic · Dec 30, 2010

Antisock said:
Those who think themselves to be the best parents, you know, the ones with out any kids of their own, not the ones with 3 or more coping with the real world and with real world Christian experience would have you beat the hell out of him to shut him up. Thats what would make others think your a good parent. A nice compliant and oppressed child who you can control with a glance.

What would Jesus Mary and Joseph do?

Sorry but I can't bear to read another get advice about how to beat or control your kid thread and I figure thats what this is without even looking. Am I right?

WHY on Earth would you come here for advice on how to parent a child? Do you want them all screwed up?

Are we on the same forum??? Who could you be referring to? No one here as far as I know.

Antisock · Dec 30, 2010

JacktheCatholic said:
Are we on the same forum??? Who could you be referring to? No one here as far as I know.

I'm refering to old threads without even having read this one beyond the second post which made me scared for the child.

Are you taking that personally? If so I appologize.

No offence, but would you take parenting advice from here? Really?

If someone asked you for parenting advice, where would you send them? To OBOB? Really?

_Shannon_ · Dec 30, 2010

KeenanParkerII said:
You sound super knowledgeable. I read even your first post in this thread. My older sister's having a baby. Stay on the forum so we can consult you k?

LOL! I definitely have lots of experience And having come into parenting with absolutely no skills or tools I have had to read and study and pray a ton...try lots of different paths and really wrestle out the kind of parent and person I want to be, as well as what it is I hope to leave my children with as they grow. Now that some of my kids are older, I can see the fruits of how they were parented as young children and babies and say without reservation that it has yielded teens and tweens who are connected with me, which makes dealing with any arising issues much easier, since we're all best friends, and we really know each other.

We definitely have struggles--some of which I have power to enact change, some over which I am powerless. But one thing I can honestly say about myself is that I will keep on trying and trying and recognise that I always need to keep growing

Even if I am not posting--you can always pop me an email or a PM

benedictaoo · Dec 30, 2010

Catherineanne said:
Once again; it gives the mother something to worry about without any good reason whatever. And it gives her a negative label for her son, about whom she already has negative thoughts.

There is nothing good about this.

actually, no, the opposite is true. If she feels this is more then just normal 2 year old stuff then this gives her a sigh of relief, that she is A) not crazy, and B) there is an answer out there and she then can see his actions are not a personal attack against her.

The fact that she keeps saying he is "bad" is a red flag to me that this may be more challenging then normal 2 year old stuff or maybe not, I do not know and it would behoove any of us to say either way what is going on.

JacktheCatholic · Dec 30, 2010

Antisock said:
I'm referring to old threads without even having read this one beyond the second post which made me scared for the child.

Are you taking that personally? If so I appologize.

No offense, but would you take parenting advice from here? Really?

If someone asked you for parenting advice, where would you send them? To OBOB? Really?

No offense taken. I am just confused by your post.

As to advise... my wife and I studied the topics as thoroughly as we could. We received a multitude of advise from both family and friends. When I was learning to raise my now 20 year old and even my 9 and 11 year old I was not on the internet and using forums. That started with my 2001 Trans Am and modifying it to go faster. Christian forums came even later.

So, I used books and family and friends and then later tried to incorporate Christian values that I previously lacked. Though I do read some pretty good stuff on forums as well because some of the stuff is from the same books I read previously.

Also, the OP took quite a gamble to post what she did. I admire the courage she has for posting this sort of thing in a forum. Some that do this get a sock account so they do not have people think poorly of them. There are many things to consider when we post. We should all use care to be loving with whomever we are responding to because a lot is lost in a message on a forum and we do not know people on a forum like we do friends and relatives. Except, of course, in those rare cases where forum member become friends outside of the electronic world.

Anyhow, no offense. I just believe all the members posting so far are good people doing the best they can to be good parents as well.

benedictaoo · Dec 30, 2010

_Shannon_ said:
I just wanted to say that we don't do punishments, and my 2 and 3 year olds do not act like what WA described. Personally, if someone brought their child into my home and they acted like that, they would not be invited back. No wishing about it.

There re lots of things waaaay different about how American treats her babies and toddlers. A baby born in America is far more likely to have been born by c-section, to have been exposed to induction, and epidural medication, to be separated from momma after birth, to not be breastfeeding, to not be in physical contact with momma for most of the day for most of the first year, to sleep alone. Babies have chemical overlaod in the form of plastic bottles, plastic diapers, plastic baby food containers, plastic wrapped mattresses, plastic coated clothing. Babies and young children spend very little time outside. Mothers are more likely to be working, and be stressed and to suffer PPD. Mother's and babies are consuming vast amounts of crap in their diet--high fructose corn syrup, antibiotics and artificial hormones in milk and meat.

We are just a giant tangled mess of disconnection-parents and children.

So that's what's wrong with my kids... all but one was a c section. Can't help it though, when you don't go into labor and the due date came and went and the amniotic fluid is diminishing and the baby is under duress, he has to come out.

_Shannon_ · Dec 30, 2010

benedictaoo said:
So that's what's wrong with my kids... all but one was a c section. Can't help it though, when you don't go into labor and the due date came and went and the amniotic fluid is diminishing and the baby is under duress, he has to come out.

I just want to be super clear--that I am NOT passing judgment in any way--on individual women. I know pretty much we all do the best we know to do in the given circumstances with which we're presented. Culturally, the norm we've got going is pretty lame in my opinion, but I understand why people choose those things, as well as understand that what might be "optimal" given a "normal" set of circumstances, is not at all the best choice in ALL circumstances.

((hug))

benedictaoo · Dec 30, 2010

WarriorAngel said:
Maybe it is ADHD - maybe a doctor could check that. I dont know how they could tell. Blood work?

ADD is not diagnosed, only assessed and evaluated. There is no test, although some say you can see a difference in brain activity and with Autism in some kids, not all, the brain is actually different.

anyway- at 2 no doctor would even try until they are about 6.

So the best thing to do is get a handle on how to interact and handle the situation.

These kids need desperately routine and consistency. They need what every kid does, just so much more.

They need organization and not a lot of stimulation and patience and love and understanding and a not a chaotic environment.

Chaos is like a nail in their coffin.

_Shannon_ · Dec 30, 2010

Anhelyna said:
Can I please reinforce my plea that you refer to yourselves as I when talking with your children

Husbands/ partners / friends / relatives / younger children / older children address you as Mommy and the child with whom you are in conversation must address you as Mommy . You must not call yourself Mommy when in direct conversation with the child - it confuses him and can lead to more problems of identity

I refer to myself as Mommy when talking to my 2's and 3's because the whole me/I/you thing is difficult for them to verbalise properly. If ask, "Do you want to brush first or do you want me to brush first?"--I have NO idea what their answer actually means to them. If they answer "me"--they might mean themselves or they might mean me, since that's the word I used. But if I ask, "Do you want to brush first or do you want mommy to brush first?" and they answer 'me'--I know they mean themselves. If they answer 'momma', I know they mean me.

I dunno, I haven't seen any negative behaviour issues coming from this at all. It's just a communication tool for the small kids still hashing out pronouns.

Can I ask you why you feel this strongly about that particular issue? Maybe I am overlooking something or not quite understanding what you're saying.

Antisock · Dec 30, 2010

JacktheCatholic said:
Anyhow, no offense. I just believe all the members posting so far are good people doing the best they can to be good parents as well.

Sure and none of that necessarily translates to "good" advice.

I can mean well all day long and still be insanely ignorant.

Here there are going to be conflicting opinions that are more likely to confuse than be helpful. Everyone here knows best. That should be the only red flag anyone needs. Common sense.

Consult a real expert like Dr. Ray Guarendi or Dr. Gregory Popkak.

Not a bunch of armchair apologists who thrive on arguing because they are so damaged and unhealed themselves that they don't dare to come out into the light of day and most of those, don't even realize it.

I dont know what to do with my terrible 2

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