I don't know what I am.

[razeontherock]

I have recently come to realize that Christians are whatever they need to be at the time.

I would love to see you turn that statement into something other than an overgeneralizing bit of prejudice. Think you can do it?

 

[Edward the Theist]

I would love to see you turn that statement into something other than an overgeneralizing bit of prejudice. Think you can do it?

Why would I? I belive it's true. That is that Christians make themselves out to be whatever they need to be at the time. They are the supreme hypocrites. They say they believe in God and then live like he doesn't exist. They are superstitious and magical thinkers. And worse than that, their entire theology is contradictory. They say Jesus was sent by God to die on the cross for man's sins, but then they say that God is all-powerful. He could just forgive people on judgement day.

I don't believe any of it. God exists. I can't escape that, but I will not sit here and act like I know what God is, or how He works, because I don't have the first clue, except what I learn through scientific and philosophical inquiries.

You all act like God is the God of humans only; you completely disregard the fact that he's the God of spiders and wasps as well. You completely ignore the fact that he talks with cats and dogs and parakeets on a daily basis.

You hold the bible in your hand and call it the Word of God, and yet we know that for three hundred years after Christ there was no "bible."

Your religion is designed for one thing only: secular power. Governments say what's lawful and what's not; you say what's right and what's wrong. It's all about one human being controling another. AND MAYBE FOR THE GOOD OF SOCIETY!

But stop pretending like you can do anything for my soul. You're not about the soul; your about power here on earth.


You tell people how to vote; how to fight in wars; how to ostracize others; how to give away their hard-earned money; how to own guns; how to hate the right kinds of people, how to eat, how to pray.

But I'm not bitter. Seriously. The stupid need a shepherd. The ignorant must be led. Those without critical thinking skills must be told what to think. People must be controlled. I'm serious. The ignorant masses must be moved in this direction or that. Even this forum is nothing more than a platform for secular ads. Weight loss nonsense and the like. Why? Because let's face it: anyone who would think Christianity is true will believe anything. And you know that's a fact.

Just...uh...don't confuse me with one of them.

 

[razeontherock]

Why would I? I belive it's true.

I point out it is overgeneralizing, and prejudice. You're ok with that? Really?
I would never deprive you of your right to be a bigot, but I will point out it's a poor choice. And highly offensive. To me personally, as well as to most on this site.

Why should I take the time to debunk your erroneous thinking?

That is that Christians make themselves out to be whatever they need to be at the time. They are the supreme hypocrites. They say they believe in God and then live like he doesn't exist.

Your use of the word "they," again pretends "if you've seen one, you've seen 'em all." Transfer that same verbiage to a race, and what do you have? Prejudice. And falsehood.

You're simply wrong, via over-generalization.

They are superstitious and magical thinkers.

Or you just don't understand mysticism, nor the mysteries. Hand-waving it away works, but only for you. And all you are left with is ignorance on the subject, which is not a good position to be arguing from

And worse than that, their entire theology is contradictory. They say Jesus was sent by God to die on the cross for man's sins, but then they say that God is all-powerful. He could just forgive people on judgement day.

This forum is specifically for "struggles by non-Christians." The implication is that the struggle would be towards Christianity; you seem to be struggling against Christians. You have that right, but this is not the place for it.

You are pretentiously stating you have a better plan of Salvation than God, and you're also getting some facts wrong, even in such a short statement. Doesn't this scream out falsehood in your position, even to you?

I don't believe any of it. God exists. I can't escape that, but I will not sit here and act like I know what God is, or how He works, because I don't have the first clue, except what I learn through scientific and philosophical inquiries.

Interesting choice of words. Job addresses the greatest philosophical inquiries of it's time, and a little later Genesis one does, too. by your own terms, the Bible tells us who God is, how He works, and to some extent, what we can expect Him to do. Notice I don't expect you to believe it just because it says it; I certainly didn't.

God is knowable, and that's WAY past any book!

You all act like God is the God of humans only; you completely disregard the fact that he's the God of spiders and wasps as well. You completely ignore the fact that he talks with cats and dogs and parakeets on a daily basis.

False dilemma, over-generalization, and more prejudice. Feel better? If you just need to vent instead of thinking or making sense, you should say so. Get your little temper tantrum out of your system, but afterwards clean yourself up and become rational. Fair enough?

You hold the bible in your hand and call it the Word of God, and yet we know that for three hundred years after Christ there was no "bible."

So what? That you think this matters, is sheer ignorance. The Gospels were recited (actually acted out, since they are performance pieces) in the Temple, DAILY, from the day of Pentecost (33 AD) to their eventual writing, which only occurred at the request of new Church leaders, for fear they might get something wrong. This insured everyone in the Church was INVOLVED, and therefore not easily swayed away from the Truth they were partaking in. There's no way someone could write down something that included any material changes, because everyone would reject it. Which is exactly what happened.

The only thing the collection of books known as the "Bible" changed, was individual Churches now had access to all the accepted writings, instead of just some of them. This is not the scandal you make it out to be.

Your religion is designed for one thing only: secular power.

1. I have no religion

2. Certain religiosities within Christendom, I would agree with you. I have nothing to do with those, and neither did Christ. (Except to reveal their falsehood)

3. Jesus made it plain that His Kingdom transcends your stated concern here

Governments say what's lawful and what's not; you say what's right and what's wrong. It's all about one human being controling another.

Tell ya what - you encounter a Church like that? RUN out the door, and don't look back. The Gospel is about self-control, personal responsibility, and the empowerment that comes from making wise choices and sticking to them. Further, God won't really provide much help until we're in that position.

You tell people how to vote; how to fight in wars; how to ostracize others; how to give away their hard-earned money; how to own guns; how to hate the right kinds of people, how to eat, how to pray.

But I'm not bitter. Seriously. The stupid need a shepherd. The ignorant must be led. Those without critical thinking skills must be told what to think.

How many of these flames would you like me to report you for? I suggest you get your venting out of your system, clean yourself up, and become rational.

NO part of the Gospel tells you what to think.

 

[mzungu]

Your excessive use of so many emoticons leads me to believe that you are under some sort of psychological stress. Before you do anything and before you start soul searching, you have to first believe in yourself. Make positive thoughts and try to make even the smallest thing you achieve to be a small victory. When your life if filled with small successes no matter how insignificant then you will become more optimistic and with optimism comes strength and with strength comes perseverance. Someday you will decide for yourself what to believe in but unless you believe in yourself then all you will accomplish is to become the mouthpiece of another's ideals and beliefs.
Fear not fear for it is your ally there to protect you. It is a natural instinctive reaction that makes you aware of the dangers surrounding you. But let not fear become your master. You are the master!

 

[razeontherock]

Hi Mzungu - those are actually valid points! (Not supposed to have NC's posting here other than starting their own thread, but I for one would like to see that slide in an instance like this)

Thank you for "reaching across the aisle" and being encouraging.

 

[mzungu]

Hi Mzungu - those are actually valid points! (Not supposed to have NC's posting here other than starting their own thread, but I for one would like to see that slide in an instance like this)

Thank you for "reaching across the aisle" and being encouraging.

Thank you. Two things come to mind:

ALL THAT IS NECESSARY FOR THE FORCES OF EVIL TO WIN IN THE WORLD
IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING! (Edmund Burke).

and

BE KIND, FOR EVERYONE YOU MEET IS FIGHTING A HARD BATTLE! (Plato)
​

 

[razeontherock]

Speaking of hard battles, I am curious to hear how your homeland is doing. But another place for that ...

 

[mzungu]

Speaking of hard battles, I am curious to hear how your homeland is doing. But another place for that ...

If I may be so intrusive as to post here what will be my last post as this is not the place for it; The Church is inundated with homeless families, we are paying taxes that amount to even exceeding the income. Even homeless people are forced to pay taxes. Children are considered luxury goods and are taxed extra. We have lost our sovereignty to our lenders (IMF, and other foreign banks), unemployment is over 50% for young people and up to 25 years old and general unemployment is officially over 25% but realistically it is over over 35%. Industry is leaving the country for greener pastures and politicians and the rich have their mo0ney in Swiss banks. We are heading for a revolution. People are talking of armed struggle!

 

[Edward the Theist]

How many of these flames would you like me to report you for?

I'm going to TELL!!!

 

[Edward the Theist]

Your excessive use of so many emoticons leads me to believe that you are under some sort of psychological stress.

It really was pretty easy to do.

Before you do anything and before you start soul searching, you have to first believe in yourself. Make positive thoughts and try to make even the smallest thing you achieve to be a small victory.

When your life if filled with small successes no matter how insignificant then you will become more optimistic and with optimism comes strength and with strength comes perseverance. Someday you will decide for yourself what to believe in but unless you believe in yourself then all you will accomplish is to become the mouthpiece of another's ideals and beliefs.

Funny you should say. Actually, I don't believe in myself. I only believe in God. I think God is the only real thing that exists. I know, I know, it sounds touching, but in reality it tears down Christianity faster than atheism. Why? Because the classical arguments for the existence of God support it as does logical analysis. Heck, even quantum mechanics and the big bang supports it. In fact, the belief in Jesus and the Church is merely a psychological means of avoiding it.

But everyone knows it's true; down deep they know it--even atheists know it.

Fear not fear for it is your ally there to protect you. It is a natural instinctive reaction that makes you aware of the dangers surrounding you. But let not fear become your master. You are the master!

Nice.

 

[razeontherock]

I think God is the only real thing that exists. I know, I know, it sounds touching, but in reality it tears down Christianity faster than atheism. Why? Because the classical arguments for the existence of God support it as does logical analysis. Heck, even quantum mechanics and the big bang supports it. In fact, the belief in Jesus and the Church is merely a psychological means of avoiding it.

If you were to explore this statement, I think you would find what elements in modern churchianity are false, and in the process likely discover the Jesus of true Christianity.

Glad to hear you are actually a theist - or should I say, Deist at this point?

 

[razeontherock]

I'm going to TELL!!!

There was a heckuvalot of substance in that post, and this is all you can do?Insist on being uncivil?

 

[Edward the Theist]

If you were to explore this statement, I think you would find what elements in modern churchianity are false, and in the process likely discover the Jesus of true Christianity.

Glad to hear you are actually a theist - or should I say, Deist at this point?

Ah, modern churchianity, huh? So, you don't go to church?

A lot of modern non-denominationals like to say they're not Christian, they're not religious, they're not of the Church, they're not fundamentalists, instead they're just "believers."

You don't get to have your cake and eat it, too. Either you're a Christian or you're not. If you're off doing your own version of Christianity, and you're outside the Church, then as far as I'm concerned you might as well be David Koresh.

A proper Christian is a member of the Roman Catholic Church. If the Church means anything at all, it can only be the one that has always been, the one that assembled the Bible, the one that has written the rules that every Protestant Church follows at least in part: The Roman Catholic Church.

If you're not part of that, then you're like the disciples who tried to cast out a demon and the demon said, "I know who Jesus is, but who are you?"

If you have a bad taste in your mouth such that you have to call it "Churchianity." then you can't tell me your part of the Church. And if you're not part of the Church, you have no, repeat no authority to discuss salvation, Jesus Christ or the Bible. You're just another lost sheep outside the fold.

 

[razeontherock]

Ah, modern churchianity, huh? So, you don't go to church?

Actually I've got a good Church. That takes a lot of looking to find. You can't do that until you are rooted and grounded in the word.

A lot of modern non-denominationals like to say they're not Christian, they're not religious, they're not of the church, they're not fundamentalists, instead they're just "believers."

The Faith started as "the Way." Do you know what fundamentalism is? It's an ecumenical movement to find the common elements all Christians agree on. That's a far cry from how the word is commonly used, isn't it? ID'ing one's self as "not part of the Church," is a dangerous way to live as a believer. I do say I have no religion though; 1 out of 6 ain't bad?

You don't get to have your cake and eat it, too. Either you're a Christian or you're not. If you're off doing your own version of Christianity, and you're outside the Church, then as far as I'm concerned you might as well be David Koresh.

A proper Christian is a member of the Roman Catholic Church. If the Church means anything at all, it can only be the one that has always been, the one that assembled the Bible, the one that has written the rules that every Protestant Church follows at least in part: The Roman Catholic Church.

ETA: with the info you've added, the only thing that makes sense is for you not to be online, and certainly not to be talking to anyone who clearly doesn't have a RC icon. If you were sincere with what you say, you would be at a RCC, (Roman Catholic Church) asking to speak with a Priest. And if you were baiting and flaming like you are here, they'd toss you out on your ear in no time flat. We also have a "ask a Chaplain" here you would be using if authority really meant anything to you, but when you told the Chaplain that he's not really a Christian because he's not RC, (something both the RCC and Jesus teach against) how long do you think it would take for you to be banned if you kept that attitude up? There's also a RC congregational area, and if you were respectful they should be glad to engage you, but you're not availing yourself of any of these things. I'm not about to spend any effort trying to determine what kinds of evil you may be up to, but I will tell you if you can't be honest with people, God will only hide His face from you and you'd be better off not talking to anyone and never getting past Deism, even though it holds no Salvation.

There was nothing RC about the early Church, that's all later invention. They admit they "developed" doctrine after the fact; i.e., made stuff up. You're also ignoring the fact they broke off from the Orthodox Church, having changed more "rules" than the far more sensible Orthodox would tolerate. If you value "the one that has always been," you owe it to yourself to at least look into the Eastern Orthodox; there is even now a US organization of it. At the same time, God may call you into RC and you could be Blessed there.

If you're not part of that, then you're like the disciples who tried to cast out a demon and the demon said, "I know who Jesus is, but who are you?"

Sorry but I've done that and none have ever came back with that retort. You really should know who you're talking to before being so brash.

If you have a bad taste in your mouth such that you have to call it "Churchianity."

There are many prevalent errors being taught in Churches all across this Country. If you knew better you wouldn't be in the position you are now, so that tells me since you're familiar with RC all you got there was error. Otherwise you wouldn't have left, and you wouldn't have such mixed up ideas now. If you actually respected RC, you wouldn't have the posting history you do.

I'd say nice try at stuffed shirtism and condescension, but it really doesn't suit you.

 

[Edward the Theist]

I think you're nuts, but that's just my opinion.

Didn't it feel good to insult me?

There was nothing RC about the early Church, that's all later invention. They admit they "developed" doctrine after the fact; i.e., made stuff up. You're also ignoring the fact they broke off from the Orthodox Church, having changed more "rules" than the far more sensible Orthodox would tolerate. If you value "the one that has always been," you owe it to yourself to at least look into the Eastern Orthodox; there is even now a US organization of it. At the same time, God may call you into RC and you could be Blessed there.

Okay, Greek Orthodox, but you're not Greek Orthodox. So, apparently there is no set standard by which Christians live. You can be in this church or that, believe this way or that. Just like you, you say you don't have a religion. So then you're not a Christian, correct? Or do you redifine that as well, like just a follower of Christ in whatever way you choose to interpret his life and teachings?

Sorry but I've done that and none have ever came back with that retort. You really should know who you're talking to before being so brash.

Oh, you've cast out demons have you? So, you believe in demons possessing people? But you're not a Christian, or at least you're not a member of the Christian religion. So, if you're outside the Church, by what authority do you cast out demons?

There are many prevalent errors being taught in Churches all across this Country.

But not in yours? Because yours is not Christian, correct? I mean you said you have no religion. Christianity, the last time I checked, was a major world religion. But you're not part of that, right? In your church (with a lowercase c) you read the bible, cast out demons, but you're not religious. Sounds a little scary, don't you think?

If you knew better you wouldn't be in the position you are now, so that tells me since you're familiar with RC all you got there was error. Otherwise you wouldn't have left, and you wouldn't have such mixed up ideas now. If you actually respected RC, you wouldn't have the posting history you do.

I've never been a Catholic. I'm not a Christian. Like you, I am not religious.

I'd say nice try at stuffed shirtism and condescension, but it really doesn't suit you.

I'm just trying to find out what you're all about. Because a lot of people walk around acting spiritual when really underneath they're a seething volcano of anger and the desire to contol other people. The religion keeps it in check; but it's a sublimation, a reaction formation. Lots of times these people are in offshoot sects of Christianity, Like David Koresh, because to be in the Church would require obedience to a hierarchy, and they don't want to be controlled. They want to control. And they prey on the religious, because like I said before, if someone will believe the superstitions of religion, they'll believe anything. I'm just trying to make sure that's not you. I'm trying to make sure you're the real deal.

I mean you're in this forum to help non-Christians, but you're not a Christian, but you cast out demons, yet you're free to call me names, but you say you follow the Word. Can I ask, straight up, what are you trying to accomplish here?

 

[razeontherock]

Okay, Greek Orthodox

There is no reason to limit it to Greek. Any of the ethnicities, including OCA. (Orthodox Church of America)

You're making this an adversarial relationship, which is not why we're here. If you want to find out "what someone's made of," I personally don't object to that but being online puts you at a tremendous disadvantage. You're doing several things that are NOT valid, including concocting strawmen, which I'll gather in the next quote snip, and if there's anything left I'll address that:

So, apparently there is no set standard by which Christians live. You can be in this church or that, believe this way or that. Just like you, you say you don't have a religion. So then you're not a Christian, correct? Or do you redifine that as well, like just a follower of Christ in whatever way you choose to interpret his life and teachings?

But you're not a Christian, or at least you're not a member of the Christian religion.

So, if you're outside the Church, by what authority do you cast out demons?

In your church (with a lowercase c) you read the bible, cast out demons, but you're not religious. Sounds a little scary, don't you think?

Christianity, the last time I checked, was a major world religion. But you're not part of that, right?

like I said before, if someone will believe the superstitions of religion, they'll believe anything.

Feed all that to Mr Ed the talking horse, because it's all straw. Or the parts that may not be, are something else that's simply not valid. If there's anything in there that's actually sincere, bring it back up with a civil attitude and a statement if you want to see what Scripture has to say about it, but there's no way to tackle all that in one post.

Moving on to any actual substance in your last post, the first thing you need to realize is being in Church doesn't make one a Christian any more than being in a garage makes you a car. Next, there is only one Church. I really don't owe any man my credentials, and I'm not about to play proud Christian peacock. It's absurd, and goes against everything Christ taught.

My suggestion to you is take people at face value, use your head, and don't put on airs.

I've never been a Catholic. I'm not a Christian. Like you, I am not religious.

You are not like me, in that I am a Christian.

I'm just trying to find out what you're all about. Because a lot of people walk around acting spiritual when really underneath they're a seething volcano of anger and the desire to control other people. The religion keeps it in check;

This is ONE aspect of "religion" as the word is used, which I refuse to associate with. I fail to see how you can miss the fact that RC was all about power and control for a very very long time. The Kingdom Jesus teaches doesn't function like that at all. If "religion" meant what the Bible describes in it's ONLY positive mention, I would consider myself religious. Visiting the orphan and the widow in their affliction and keeping yourself unspotted from the world is the farthest thing from what people currently picture about "religion."

Lots of times these people are in offshoot sects of Christianity, Like David Koresh, because to be in the Church would require obedience to a hierarchy, and they don't want to be controlled. They want to control.

This is loaded with problems! First of all, Koresh was a cult leader. Please don't conflate that with Christianity. I realize you legitimately may not be in a position to tell the difference, but please. Second of all, Church leadership that wants to control you is evil, which is just one of the things I mean by "churchianity." (Note the small c)

but you're not Greek Orthodox.

Notice how you're making statements instead of asking questions? That's not a legitimate way to gather info.

Oh, you've cast out demons have you? So, you believe in demons possessing people?

That's a rather strange phrase. It's not something one "believes in." I hope I don't have to be involved in (or even see) anything like that ever again.

I mean you're in this forum to help non-Christians, but you're not a Christian, but you cast out demons, yet you're free to call me names, but you say you follow the Word. Can I ask, straight up, what are you trying to accomplish here?

I know you're intelligent enough to realize I didn't insult you. I responded to a specific part of the content of your post. I re-wrote that, now that I have enough info from you to be able to do so. It is in my last post, the paragraph that the first line is in red. You can't miss it.

 

[Edward the Theist]

Moving on to any actual substance in your last post, the first thing you need to realize is being in Church doesn't make one a Christian any more than being in a garage makes you a car. Next, there is only one Church.

Okay. Which one? There can be no greater difference than between the Roman Catholic Church and the non-denominational, pentacostal, rock band-for-a-choir church you find on so many backroads these days. So which one? All of them? A lot of Christians hate one another. Some fundamentalists hate the Catholics and think they are satanic.

You say there's only one Church, but the Catholics think it's them. You even said in an earlier post that its very difficult to find the right church. You said, and I quote: "There are many prevalent errors being taught in Churches all across this Country."

You're not being intellectually honest.

I really don't owe any man my credentials, and I'm not about to play proud Christian peacock. It's absurd, and goes against everything Christ taught.

My suggestion to you is take people at face value, use your head, and don't put on airs.

What airs? I don't have any airs. I didn't ask for your credentials, and I have no idea what a proud Christian peacock is. If you want me to take people at face value, then you lose, because I think there's something not quite right about you. I don't know if it's the mugshot you use for an avatar, your inconsistent statements about your faith, or what. But something smells off.

You are not like me, in that I am a Christian.

But you said you had no religion.

This is ONE aspect of "religion" as the word is used, which I refuse to associate with. I fail to see how you can miss the fact that RC was all about power and control for a very very long time.

They still are.

The Kingdom Jesus teaches doesn't function like that at all. If "religion" meant what the Bible describes in it's ONLY positive mention, I would consider myself religious. Visiting the orphan and the widow in their affliction and keeping yourself unspotted from the world is the farthest thing from what people currently picture about "religion."

So, you don't want to be associated with Christianity when it acts badly only when it acts good? Church when it's good. Churchianity when it's bad.

Notice how you're making statements instead of asking questions? That's not a legitimate way to gather info.

I asked you point blank what you hoped to accomplish here, and you won't answer that question.

I know you're intelligent enough to realize I didn't insult you.

What? You didn't call me nuts? I'm not personally offended, I'm just pointing out the fact that you insulted me directly. And now you're trying to manipulate me again, through demeaning me. That is, if I say I'm insulted, I must be stupid.

So, here's what I think (and then you can have the final word): I think you're faith is a con. I think you use it to feel superior to others. I think you see it as a way to appear enlightened and righteous. But I think I've exposed you to be just the opposite. I feel your personal religion is a hodge-podge of psychological defenses and interpersonal manipulations. I think, if I were you, I'd be worried about getting up to heaven and having Jesus say, "I never knew you." But if there's one thing I'm pretty sure of it's that you will never be worried about that.

I'll read your reply, but I'm finished in this thread.

 

[razeontherock]

The only thing that makes sense is for you not to be trying to discuss these things online, and certainly not to be talking to anyone who clearly doesn't have a RC icon. If you were sincere with what you say, you would be at a RCC, (Roman Catholic Church) asking to speak with a Priest. And if you were baiting and flaming like you are here, they'd toss you out on your ear in no time flat. We also have a "ask a Chaplain" here you would be using if authority really meant anything to you, but when you told the Chaplain that he's not really a Christian because he's not RC, (something both the RCC and Jesus teach against) how long do you think it would take for you to be banned if you kept that attitude up? There's also a RC congregational area, and if you were respectful they should be glad to engage you, but you're not availing yourself of any of these things. I'm not about to spend any effort trying to determine what kinds of evil you may be up to, but I will tell you if you can't be honest with people, God will only hide His face from you and you'd be better off not talking to anyone and never getting past Deism, even though it holds no Salvation. (Copied from 2 posts above, which you clearly didn't read, and what you need the most)

Okay. Which one? There can be no greater difference than between

What you describe as differences has nothing to do with "the Church." Man looks on the outward appearances, but God looks on the heart.

You say there's only one Church, but the Catholics think it's them. You even said in an earlier post that its very difficult to find the right church. You said, and I quote: "There are many prevalent errors being taught in Churches all across this Country."

And there are. I also said that you need to be rooted and grounded in the word before you can make any determinations about this. You may not even know what that means

your inconsistent statements about your faith

You're not in any position to be able to make such a value judgment. You don't know my Faith. You're not in the Faith.

If something "seems off" to you, the only appropriate thing is to point it out, and ask. With the humility that it may well be something you won't be able to even approach, for years yet. For you to utilize any other tactic, is putting on airs.

So, you don't want to be associated with Christianity when it acts badly only when it acts good? Church when it's good. Churchianity when it's bad.

What is Christ's association with evil? And you are still missing the point of "churchianity." It's a cultural thing; usually what people add to the Faith, that usually moves people off of the Way.