I don't know if I can be friends with "real" christians

[JESUSIAM]

A true Christian will lead you to the positive things of life, to see life in a positive perspective. Their primary call is to speak of life to those who are in need or seek a better way of living. I wouldn't want to share a conversation with you about hell.

 

[WilbertK]

Jehoiakim's Blog: The Vision that Changed my Life!

I appreciate you sharing this, but I honestly don't see what it has to do with this conversation. Maybe I'm missing something. But if nothing else, it's given me a better understanding of your beliefs.

A true Christian will lead you to the positive things of life, to see life in a positive perspective. Their primary call is to speak of life to those who are in need or seek a better way of living. I wouldn't want to share a conversation with you about hell.

Thank you very much for contributing. I understand that the tactic most christians will use to save you is not to scare you with stories of hell, but to try to convince you of the love of christ. The point is not that I think I would be scared by hell. The concept doesn't scare me one bit, because I don't see a reason to believe in it.
The point is that I think that it would be hard to have a normal friendship with someone who is constantly trying to save me, because I expect to have the same conversation with a believer over and over if they don't convince me, yet still love me and want to prevent me from going to hell. Can you elaborate on how you would deal with this?

 

[JESUSIAM]

There are different levels of friendships. You may not always trust the person you love but you can always love the person you trust.

 

[jehoiakim]

yes it was for you to understand my personal beliefs because I wanted you to understand how much I do not want anyone to go to hell even though I think there may at least be a small possibility that one could get out of hell in the great white throne judgement. That doesn't effect my passion to spread the gospel one iota

 

[JESUSIAM]

A true friend will help you find out what you need and then show you the best way to get there. Convincing people requires a confidence in our voices that matches the truth and love in our hearts.

 

[WilbertK]

A true friend will help you find out what you need and then show you the best way to get there. Convincing people requires a confidence in our voices that matches the truth and love in our hearts.

Can I ask you this: do you have friends who aren't christian?

 

[JESUSIAM]

I have more non-Christian friends than those that are.

 

[WilbertK]

I have more non-Christian friends than those that are.

Do you believe that they are going to hell?

 

[JESUSIAM]

I am not here to judge or condemn no one. While there is hope for me there is yet hope for them. I am faithful in the one who is said to have created us has the best purpose for us in life now and forevermore.

 

[WilbertK]

I am not here to judge or condemn no one.

I'm not asking you to judge or condemn anyone. I'm just asking you what you think will happen to your friends. Because I don't understand how a good friend can have such a casual attitude when it come to eternal torture.

 

[JESUSIAM]

Do you believe that they are going to hell?

I love my friends and I want what's best for them. I can only tell them what I believe is good and right for them and allow them to choose what they want to do. God did not created hell for you and I, but for the devil and his followers. God is not going to send us to hell, if we go to hell it's because we chose to go there. How? By being rebellious, disobedient, and evil.

 

[WilbertK]

I love my friends and I want what's best for them. [...] if we go to hell it's because we chose to go there. How? By being rebellious, disobedient, and evil.

So does your wish to keep your friends out of hell ever cause you to proselytize to them in a way that annoys them?

 

[Spunkn]

As a Christian yes it is possible to have non-Christian friends and still believe that if they don't accept Christ as their personal savior they will to go hell.

If you truly are their friend, then yes, you will share with them in your faith and Christ in hopes that they may come to know Jesus as their personal savior. But you also realize that this is a decision they have to make for themselves. It is not something you can force your friends to choose. They have to come to Christ of their own free will, not by you forcing them. So by sharing your faith with them -and- allowing them to choose of their own free will (aka not pestering them 24/7 about Christ) you are showing that you are loving towards them.

Just my 2 cents

 

[WilbertK]

As a Christian yes it is possible to have non-Christian friends and still believe that if they don't accept Christ as their personal savior they will to go hell.

If you truly are their friend, then yes, you will share with them in your faith and Christ in hopes that they may come to know Jesus as their personal savior. But you also realize that this is a decision they have to make for themselves. It is not something you can force your friends to choose. They have to come to Christ of their own free will, not by you forcing them. So by sharing your faith with them -and- allowing them to choose of their own free will (aka not pestering them 24/7 about Christ) you are showing that you are loving towards them.

Just my 2 cents

Thanks for the response. Do you think hell is eternal? And do you think you're aware of your friends' suffering there while you are in heaven? How does this affect your view of whether or not heaven is perfect? I'm curious to learn about how christians see these things.

 

[bling]

Hi, thank you for your response. This line triggered my interest. Presumably you think I'm going to hell for being an atheist. I don't think I understand your view of heaven and hell. What would I experience in heaven that would be so unappealing to me that I would rather be tortured and then annihilated?

The choice you are asked to make is not between a heaven full of Godly type Love and one of being tortured and annihilated, since anyone would choose heaven with that choice, but that is not really a choice is it? That is like putting a gun to your head and saying; “life around Loving people or a painful death”?

To make it a real choice there has to be perceived likely alternatives, which on earth for mature adults is God’s charity or the perceived pleasures of sin. Godly type Love (so it is not forced on you against your will) has to be the result of a free will likely alternative choice. You have to want unconditional, undeserved, unselfish type Love over selfish type love (perceived pleasures).

It is unfortunate that those that do not want unselfish Love have to go to hell, to help other make the choice to accept God’s Love. Sin has to carry an unbelievable huge debt (hell), so when it is forgiven those that are forgiven will Love much (an unbelievable huge Love [Godly type Love]) since “…he that is forgiven much Loves much…”

 

[Spunkn]

I do believe hell is eternal. I don't know specifically all the answers as to what heaven will be like. I think there are going to be some things every Christian is surprised about and didn't see coming.

Are we aware of our friend's suffering while we are in heaven? Personally I don't think so. God has said that in heaven there will be no more tears, no more suffering, and no more pain. I still feel that we'll have a degree of feeling pain, but nothing close to what we have now. More like you stub your toe on a board and you feel it, but it won't be the intense kinds of pain we feel today. That's purely speculation though.

So in my eyes, if we were aware every day that someone was in hell suffering eternal torment then that would be painful, there would be sorrow, etc. I think God will somehow remind us in heaven that at one point we did make a choice but I do not think we will be aware of all the people in hell because we will be with God. And the very definition of hell is not so much the physical place, but the absence of God. But I do not speak for God, that is my own opinion and conclusion.

 

[WilbertK]

It is unfortunate that those that do not want unselfish Love have to go to hell

Do you mean to say that the fact that I don't believe in God implies that I do not want unselfish love? I would disagree.

 

[WilbertK]

I do not think we will be aware of all the people in hell because we will be with God. And the very definition of hell is not so much the physical place, but the absence of God. But I do not speak for God, that is my own opinion and conclusion.

I appreciate that you're speculating, and I don't want to put words in your mouth. But if you don't remember all the people you met in life when you were in heaven, wouldn't that imply that you forgot a lot of aspects of your life on earth? And wouldn't that mean that you would basically be a different person in heaven than you were on earth?

 

[Spunkn]

For example, we all forgot things about our childhood. I can remember specific days, certain events etc. But I don't remember everything about it.

I think God will allow us to remember enough that we made a choice and it was to follow Him. I don't think we will remember specific sins, specific events of tragedy, and things of that nature. I could be wrong here, as I dont know. Speculation again.

We are told that we are going to be given a new body, a new heaven, and a new earth. So yes. We are going to be a different person in heaven than here on earth. However, I think we will retain our personalities and who we are as a person if that makes sense.

 

[WilbertK]

We are told that we are going to be given a new body, a new heaven, and a new earth. So yes. We are going to be a different person in heaven than here on earth. However, I think we will retain our personalities and who we are as a person if that makes sense.

I think I see how a person could have different personalities throughout their life. But I don't understand how you could be a different person, while retaining the same personality.