I dont get it....

[BrokenGhost]

Ive read through a bunch of the threads in this forum,a nd dont reall get the major gist of what dispensationalists believe. Is it possible to get a dumbed down quick lesson?

 

[eph3Nine]

Ive read through a bunch of the threads in this forum,a nd dont reall get the major gist of what dispensationalists believe. Is it possible to get a dumbed down quick lesson?

The General gist IS here on any of the threads on this first page. We arent going to type it all out for you AGAIN. So , please avail yourself of the first post of any of the threads on this first page that have to do with the Mystery, and most of them DO.

Or take advantage of the free books offered.

 

[Apollos1]

zerocipher -

You have already asked too many questions. You are supposed to sit there and read - oh, and agree.

I have been asking questions the dispys just can't answer - so I am their dirty sock in the punch bowl!

It is hard for dispys to give you the "gist" of their position because you must stand on one leg, close one eye, and tilt your head a bit to really "get it".

Otherwise you will see that because they had trouble harmonzing many scriptural topics - especially "faith & works" and the "Old Covenant versus the New Covewnant" - they came up with some outrageous theories that hack regular scripture to pieces.

I been tryin' to learn em - but they keep fussin' about the truth.

Good luck getting a straight reply...

 

[BrokenGhost]

So then what do you believe Apollos1?

 

[heymikey80]

Ive read through a bunch of the threads in this forum,a nd dont reall get the major gist of what dispensationalists believe. Is it possible to get a dumbed down quick lesson?

Sure.

Dispensations are periods of time during which God sets up special rules of observance for people to follow, either acknowledging His ways or as a way to reach Him for eternal life.

Dispensationalists think this is the primary way salvation theology is organized.

 

[Dispy]

zerocipher -

You have already asked too many questions. You are supposed to sit there and read - oh, and agree.

I have been asking questions the dispys just can't answer - so I am their dirty sock in the punch bowl!

It is hard for dispys to give you the "gist" of their position because you must stand on one leg, close one eye, and tilt your head a bit to really "get it".

Otherwise you will see that because they had trouble harmonzing many scriptural topics - especially "faith & works" and the "Old Covenant versus the New Covewnant" - they came up with some outrageous theories that hack regular scripture to pieces.

I been tryin' to learn em - but they keep fussin' about the truth.

Good luck getting a straight reply...

Apollos1:
In one of my first posts to you I asked the following questions:

Being the 12 were commissioned to to to all the world, Why did they end up saying that they would stay with the circumcision? Are they now out of the will of God?

Where in OT prophesy, or gospels, do we find The purpose of the Cross?

Where in prophesy, or gospels, do we find The Body of Christ, Jew and Gentile on equal footing, without distinction, and not under the Law?

Where in prophesy, or gospels, do we find the rapture of the Chruch, The Body of Christ?

Where in prophesy, or gospels, do we find salvation by grace through faith alone in the shed blood of Christ?

Where in prophesy, or gospels, do we find that the Gentiles will be blessed; apart from Israel? Doesn't John 4:22 say that "...salvation is of the Jews"?

You claimed, at that time , that you were too busy to answer them at that time, and said that you would. I am still waiting.

Looks to me that you are one pot that calls the kettle black.

He that lives in a glass house should not throw stones.

 

[RGL1]

Dumbed down (way down) version.

Many believe only a small portion of the bible is for Christians and build major doctines out of one word such as dispensation, mystery,etc. Much of the gospel is a slice-and-dice split-gospel message. They split up God's faithful/saved people into multiple separated groups, Very confusing.
Many statements are made by dispy leaders/founders (JN Darby, CI Scofield, etc.) without proper scriptural backing based on personal preference and presuppositions. As a system of bible interpretation it is a relatively new theology in history, mid 1800's.

If you don't believe it they'll tell you don't understand grace or something like that.

 

[Kimberlyann]

I don't want to put everyone into the same box. Some of them are more extreme than others. Many extreme dispys say Jesus was never speaking to us when he made his demands for commitment and obedience. Some consider Jesus unenlightened, compared to us because he didn't know the mystery.

It seems that when ever they read a uncomfortable requirement from God or Jesus they simply put a stamp on the envelope of the gospels that says: Please forward to the nearest Jew. That way they don't have to live with the responsibility and accountability to the Lord. Its ingenious.

 

[eph3Nine]

Apollos1:
In one of my first posts to you I asked the following questions:

Being the 12 were commissioned to to to all the world, Why did they end up saying that they would stay with the circumcision? Are they now out of the will of God?

Where in OT prophesy, or gospels, do we find The purpose of the Cross?

Where in prophesy, or gospels, do we find The Body of Christ, Jew and Gentile on equal footing, without distinction, and not under the Law?

Where in prophesy, or gospels, do we find the rapture of the Chruch, The Body of Christ?

Where in prophesy, or gospels, do we find salvation by grace through faith alone in the shed blood of Christ?

Where in prophesy, or gospels, do we find that the Gentiles will be blessed; apart from Israel? Doesn't John 4:22 say that "...salvation is of the Jews"?

You claimed, at that time , that you were too busy to answer them at that time, and said that you would. I am still waiting.

Looks to me that you are one pot that calls the kettle black.

He that lives in a glass house should not throw stones.

Ahem...good post, Dispy.

 

[timlamb]

I don't want to put everyone into the same box. Some of them are more extreme than others. Many extreme dispys say Jesus was never speaking to us when he made his demands for commitment and obedience. Some consider Jesus unenlightened, compared to us because he didn't know the mystery.

It seems that when ever they read a uncomfortable requirement from God or Jesus they simply put a stamp on the envelope of the gospels that says: Please forward to the nearest Jew. That way they don't have to live with the responsibility and accountability to the Lord. Its ingenious.

Ahem...Good post Kimberlyann (and Apollos,and rgl1)

 

[timlamb]

Sure.

Dispensations are periods of time during which God sets up special rules of observance for people to follow, either acknowledging His ways or as a way to reach Him for eternal life.

Dispensationalists think this is the primary way salvation theology is organized.

I used to think it was that simple until I found this thread and the Pauline Dispensationalists-EEK!!!

 

[Dispy]

Dumbed down (way down) version.

Many believe only a small portion of the bible is for Christians and build major doctines out of one word such as dispensation, mystery,etc. Much of the gospel is a slice-and-dice split-gospel message. They split up God's faithful/saved people into multiple separated groups, Very confusing.
Many statements are made by dispy leaders/founders (JN Darby, CI Scofield, etc.) without proper scriptural backing based on personal preference and presuppositions. As a system of bible interpretation it is a relatively new theology in history, mid 1800's.

If you don't believe it they'll tell you don't understand grace or something like that.

As one that considers himself as a non-denominational dispensationalist, and I do believe that I speak for the majority of those like minded believers, I would say that we be believe every word of God from Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21. However, I do not follow the vast majority the OT Civil, Moral and Ceremonial Laws. For those that do likewise, then become dispensationalist also wheter they like to consider themselves dispensationals or not. Also, we study the Bible in the context in which it was written, paying much attention as to when, to whom, and what was required of those to whom it was written to at that time in human history.

When one speaks of "split up groups," I think of major protestant denominationalism. They take the doctrine (gospel) of of Law and mix it with the doctrine (gospel) of grace. That is what I call "a scrambled egg doctrine." Each denomination has a little different receipe as how to mix it, and then serve their followers an "omlet" to their liking. It is the denominationalist that split themselves up into many different groups. Go to your yellow pages in your phone book and just count how many denominations you find.

Those that make outrages accusations about other, should take a look in a mirror once in a while.

Yes, I wiil admit that all dispensationalists agree with every point of doctrine.

Dispensationalism is not a relatively new theology. It is neither a denomination or specific doctrine. It is primarily a manner in how one study the Scriptures. Not all persons study the Bible in the same manner, therefore one will find many different points of view.

Paul himself was a dispensaationalist. He speaks of three different dispensations in Ephesians 2 alone. In verses 11-12 he speaks of TIMES PAST. How things were when when there was a "middle wall of partition" between the Jew and Gentile.

In verse 13 he speaks of BUT NOW. as to how that wall has been broken down throug the blood of Christ. It didn't used to be that way.

In verse 7, he speaks of AGES TO COME, how God will bring His purposes to fruition.

Please don't give Darby or Scofield credit for what God instituted. Then you did it in a discrediting way. Shame on you.

 

[Dispy]

I don't want to put everyone into the same box. Some of them are more extreme than others. Many extreme dispys say Jesus was never speaking to us when he made his demands for commitment and obedience. Some consider Jesus unenlightened, compared to us because he didn't know the mystery.

Jesus said in Matthew 15:24 "I am not come but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Didn't Jesus command His disciples "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and any city of the Samaritians enter ye not: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (10:5-6).

Also, Paul in Romans 15:8 says: "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers."

PLEASE read Matthew chapters 5,6&7. If you feel that you are keeping all that is required in those chapters, then you have built your house upon a rock. If you ARE NOT DOING those things, then you will be considered "the least in the kingdom," and your house is built upon the sand. How you doing?

Personally I do not believe those things are required for me to do in this dispensation of grace. I take my instructions for my Christian from the Pauline Epistles, being his instructions are for members of the Body of Christ, and being I am not a Jew looking forward to an earthly kingdom.

It seems that when ever they read a uncomfortable requirement from God or Jesus they simply put a stamp on the envelope of the gospels that says: Please forward to the nearest Jew. That way they don't have to live with the responsibility and accountability to the Lord. Its ingenious.

Does Matthew 5,6&7 have Kimberlyann's, or members of the Body of Christ, name on it?

Several times in the OT it speaks of Israel going through the Tribulation and Great Tribulation. To you believe that mail is directed to members of the Body of Christ? Paul tells us that members of the Body of Christ will not indure the Tribulation, as per 1Thess.5:1-10.

 

[heymikey80]

I used to think it was that simple until I found this thread and the Pauline Dispensationalists-EEK!!!

=chuckle= They're still that way, still special rules, still specific periods of time.

PD's see Paul as bringing a different set of rules than Jesus, for a different time than the Messianic period. So to them the New Covenant dispensation is directed at the Jewish people especially, but through the hardness of the Jewish people to the Messiah it is superseded by the Pauline Dispensation to the Gentiles. I'm not a Pauline Dispensationalist, so -- this isn't advocacy. It's simply "what it is."

It fits the model of Dispensationalism, and it's readily understood. The contravening question for me is whether it fits the model of Scripture. There you'd need to examine arguments pro & con for yourself, compare with what the Apostles were saying in the era they were saying it.

 

[Kimberlyann]

It might be helpful to define some words that are often interchanged as if they are virtually one and the same. It is important that we understand the meanings of these words.

1. Affliction: Keyword Concordance, anguish, persecution, tribulation, trouble, ill treatment, suffering. Webster’s: affliction, any cause of pain or suffering.
AND
2.Tribulation: Keyword Concordance, affliction Webster’s: tribulation, great misery or distress
VERSUS
3.Wrath: Keyword Concordance, fury, indignation, vexation Webster’s: wrath, intense anger, rage, fury, vengeance
AND
4.Indignation: Keyword Concd., anger, vengeance, wrath Webster’s: Adj.-- indignation, expressing anger especially unjust or mean actions. Noun-- righteous anger.

​

Notice that "affliction" and "tribulation" are nearly synonymous. Notice also, that "wrath" and "indignation" are nearly synonymous. "Affliction" can be defined as "tribulation," and "tribulation" can be defined as "affliction." Likewise, "wrath" can be defined as "indignation," and "indignation" can be defined as "wrath." But, the first two words, "affliction and tribulation" are not synonymous with the second two words, "wrath and indignation."

Several times in the OT it speaks of Israel going through the Tribulation and Great Tribulation. To you believe that mail is directed to members of the Body of Christ? Paul tells us that members of the Body of Christ will not endure the Tribulation, as per 1Thess.5:1-10.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]The King James Version [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Thessalonians 5 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. [/FONT]



This says God did not appoint us to wrath. And I agree. Gods wrath is never poured out on his saints.


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Thessalonians 1 [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. [/FONT][/FONT]


But, Nowhere does it say God has not appointed us to trials and tribulations. If fact, Paul tells us we enter the Kingdom by going through them.


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Acts 14 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that mus wet through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. [/FONT]

Paul told the Thessalonians that no one is to be swayed by these afflictions.


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Thessalonians 3 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.


[/FONT]

 

[kamikat]

Mod Hat On
Ladies and Gentlemen, before posting, please ask yourselves if your words are in a kind and gentle tone, as befitting a Christian. Please think on how they would affect you if they were spoken TO you, rather than BY you. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ here. Thank you!
kamikat
theology team moderator
Mod Hat Off

 

[RGL1]

"Paul himself was a dispensaationalist. He speaks of three different dispensations in Ephesians 2 alone. In verses 11-12 he speaks of TIMES PAST. How things were when when there was a "middle wall of partition" between the Jew and Gentile.

In verse 13 he speaks of BUT NOW. as to how that wall has been broken down throug the blood of Christ. It didn't used to be that way.

In verse 7, he speaks of AGES TO COME, how God will bring His purposes to fruition.

Please don't give Darby or Scofield credit for what God instituted. Then you did it in a discrediting way. Shame on you."
Dispy

Pure presuppositional dispensationalism.
Paul was a dispensationalist? Really? When and where did he ever call himself that?!
Three dispensations? Well, that all depends on which dipensationalist you talk too or what book you read.

There are only two found in the bible. New and Old.

Man has been under grace since Adam sinned.

The age to come is GLORY!

Shame on me?

Pr 27:17 Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another

 

[RGL1]

"Paul himself was a dispensaationalist. He speaks of three different dispensations in Ephesians 2 alone. In verses 11-12 he speaks of TIMES PAST. How things were when when there was a "middle wall of partition" between the Jew and Gentile.

In verse 13 he speaks of BUT NOW. as to how that wall has been broken down throug the blood of Christ. It didn't used to be that way.

In verse 7, he speaks of AGES TO COME, how God will bring His purposes to fruition.

Please don't give Darby or Scofield credit for what God instituted. Then you did it in a discrediting way. Shame on you."
Dispy

Pure presuppositional dispensationalism.
Paul was a dispensationalist? Really? When and where did he ever call himself that?!
Three dispensations? Well, that all depends on which dipensationalist you talk too or what book you read.

There are only two found in the bible. New and Old.

Man has been under grace since Adam sinned.

The age to come is GLORY!

Shame on me?

Pr 27:17 Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another

.

 

[biblebeliever123]

1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

A dispensation of the gospel was committed to Paul.

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

The dispensation of the grace of God was given to Paul to give to 'us-ward'.

Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

The dispensation of God was given to Paul to fulfill the word of God...even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and generations BUT NOW is made manifest to his saints.
Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

There has always been grace in each dispensation, God has always shown mercy and grace BUT NOW He is declaring grace and peace...in the dispensation of the grace of God. (eph. 3:2)

 

[RGL1]

As one that considers himself as a non-denominational dispensationalist, and I do believe that I speak for the majority of those like minded believers, I would say that we be believe every word of God from Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21. However, I do not follow the vast majority the OT Civil, Moral and Ceremonial Laws. For those that do likewise, then become dispensationalist also wheter they like to consider themselves dispensationals or not. Also, we study the Bible in the context in which it was written, paying much attention as to when, to whom, and what was required of those to whom it was written to at that time in human history.

When one speaks of "split up groups," I think of major protestant denominationalism. They take the doctrine (gospel) of of Law and mix it with the doctrine (gospel) of grace. That is what I call "a scrambled egg doctrine." Each denomination has a little different receipe as how to mix it, and then serve their followers an "omlet" to their liking. It is the denominationalist that split themselves up into many different groups. Go to your yellow pages in your phone book and just count how many denominations you find.

Those that make outrages accusations about other, should take a look in a mirror once in a while.

Yes, I wiil admit that all dispensationalists agree with every point of doctrine.

Dispensationalism is not a relatively new theology. It is neither a denomination or specific doctrine. It is primarily a manner in how one study the Scriptures. Not all persons study the Bible in the same manner, therefore one will find many different points of view.

Paul himself was a dispensaationalist. He speaks of three different dispensations in Ephesians 2 alone. In verses 11-12 he speaks of TIMES PAST. How things were when when there was a "middle wall of partition" between the Jew and Gentile.

In verse 13 he speaks of BUT NOW. as to how that wall has been broken down throug the blood of Christ. It didn't used to be that way.

In verse 7, he speaks of AGES TO COME, how God will bring His purposes to fruition.

Please don't give Darby or Scofield credit for what God instituted. Then you did it in a discrediting way. Shame on you.

One must see the Law for what it is. It shows us our sin and that we are guilty or when we are guilty. Even Paul teaches that. It also helps us to understand the goodness of God since He, did I say He, yeah He saves us even though we don't deserve it. We deserve death in Hell forever. That's grace!
The Law shows us our sin.
Ro 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."
The Law is good.
Ro 7:12 - So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
The Law is always over us. Not for justification but for correct living before God and man. We are not under the law for justificatio, but for sanctification (holy living).
Ro 3:20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. (unholy living)
Ro 3:28 - Show Context For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Ro 7:1 - Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives?
We should agree with the law along with Paul.
Ro 7:22 - For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,
The battle rages on for life.
Ro 7:25 - Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.
Paul shows the continuation, connection, and commentary on the Law & Grace issue.
Ro 3:21 - But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Since a Christian is justified by God he/she is no longer under the law since he/she saw their guilt and doom. The law did it's work. Showed guilt and judgement. Before salvation God saw us under His law and judgement, as if a crushing weight was over us ready to crush. God now sees us as under His grace or sees the righteousness of Christ on us and removes His wrath and judgement forever.
Ro 4:9
Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness.
Ro 6:14 - For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Ro 8:1-2
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

Pauline dispensationalists say they follow Paul's teaching since it to gentile believers today. Well there is some of Paul's teaching but many dispys deny or disagree with the clear statements and logic of Paul.