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I'm curious, why can't he just, you know, listen to me when I pray now? Why do I have to be 'truly ready'? And what exactly is being truly ready?
You are excited by the opportunity to sin in the face of God.
Rebuke, and tolerate. Not rebuke then execute.
"Something" being your own pride -- you just can't accept failure, can you?
In any case, the rebuke has failed -- I suppose my execution is impending now.
I'm afraid the only failure here is yours.
But I'll tell you what -- in the interest of fairness, I'll make a deal with you.
At 6:00 PM tonight, I plan to head out to a birthday party for a friend of mine.
I expect (knowing this friend as I do) that said party will include quite a bit of alcohol, possibly chemicals of a more illicit nature, men and women of, shall we say, highly negotiable morals, and that quite a bit of sin, vice, and debauchery will ensue until sometime just before dawn -- or the police arrive; whichever comes first.
If you are interested in preventing my participation in this event (and truth be told, it's kind of a long drive anyway) then you have an opportunity to rebuke me, right here and now, with the power of the Lord backing you up just as it did for your friend Walt, and if I feel sufficiently moved, I'll stay home tonight and read the Bible instead.
Originally Posted by Zongerfield http://www.christianforums.com/t7548635-post57187866/#post57187866
Tonight, at 10:00 pm EST, pray to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Ask him for mercy, ask him for forgiveness, and ask him to restore your faith in his power and his grace. And if after your prayer, you don't feel even the slightest bit touched, ie the hairs on the back of your neck don't stand up, or if you don't sense a prickling in your inner-consciousness, than you can forsake the Lord and ask him to damn you to hell.
REPLY by Rjc34
Even I got in on this one. Sorry, no dice. I was actually sincere about it too. (You know, I'm a truth seeker, and want to know if there's really some god out there I'm just not 'experiencing'.)
But no tingling, no prickly feeling. Nothing. I get more feeling when listening to Beethoven's 9th. (Which incidentally is caused by the emotional response to it, and is the same as these 'feelings of the holy spirit' you are likely getting to).
REPLY by Rjc34
Truth: a fact that has been verified; conformity to reality or actuality.
That's the truth I'm interested in. I'm not interested in wishful thinking or believing in that which can't be verified.
I have not read in the Bible where FEELINGS are a prerequisite for believing that Christ is who He says He is. I can recall two biblical incidents where one believed and it does not appear that any tingling, prickly feelings, or hair standing up occurred.
Rjc
Faith in the belief that God loves you and while we were in sin He sent Christ to die for us, and then raised Him from the dead so that you and I can be reconciled back to God upon our death will never be a fact that will be verified in our lifetime. Faith and a fact that has been verified are not the same.
RJC, I am more like you than you probably want. I love verified facts! I am grateful that God chose and accepted the apostle Thomas. He is known as Doubting Thomas and wanted evidence of Christ rising from the dead. Jesus had Thomas put his hand into His side that was pierced at the crucifixion (ref John 20:25-27)
I am so glad that Thomas is in the Bible and was accepted as I am a doubting Thomas.
God is not shocked at our doubts and will do almost anything to reconcile us back to Him. Gods grace and love are the main theme of Christs teachings and is the power that moves the spirit of mankind towards God.
Rjc, I am a sinner saved by grace and no better than anyone else; in fact you maybe a better person than I am. I do not depend on my good works but on the gift of grace for my spiritual acceptance. If I start to become judgmental I look at the picture that I have on my wall, it says, I prayed for justice then I examined myself and then I prayed for mercy and grace.
Reply by rjc
I haven't fully decided where I stand on the Jesus issue, but I'm somewhere between him existing as some sort of Jewish rabbi who claimed to be the messiah, to complete Jesus myth theory. I look forward to studying more into the issue as I move forward in my university studies
This is the main problem with Clirus' posts... Her manifesto is ether correct the sin, or if that fails execute the individual.
What do you propose for those who do not follow your command to 'correct' their 'sins'?
Rjc
Because we are alike in some ways I would like to suggest a book that you may want to add to your university studies. That book is:
Evidence That Demands a Verdict, by Author Josh McDowell
He examines the evidence that relates to some of the biblical claims and texts
PS I verify facts for a living
Stan
Rebuke, and tolerate. Not rebuke then execute.
I have not read in the Bible where FEELINGS are a prerequisite for believing that Christ is who He says He is. I can recall two biblical incidents where one believed and it does not appear that any tingling, prickly feelings, or hair standing up occurred.
Matthew 16
16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven
Luke 23:42-44 (King James Version)
42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
The one above in Luke probably had some feelings but they were of intense pain as he had spikes driven through his hands and legs to hold his weight up on a cross.
This party sounds like a bad idea. A very bad idea. I will pray that God gives you the strength to resist temptation, and I will pray that you - like Walt, when he felt the inner demons of his soul pull him in the wrong direction - end up finding the right path.
To be honest, you remind me a lot of Walt when I first met him. Walt was a very haughty person, he would gloat about his misdoings as if he was proud to be rubbing his sins in the face of God. That's essentially what you are doing here. You are excited by the opportunity to sin in the face of God. You are duly aware that carousing with immoral people and participating in their sinful activity pulls you further away from God, yet you enthusiastically proceed despite the better part of your conscience and soul instructing you to do otherwise.
I will not rebuke you. I will not tell you what you are doing is wrong. You already know this. You're no different than Walter was. And perhaps I should tell you what ended up happening to Walt. After he got released from prison and took the time to stop committing his perversions, he found God. He was saved. But the sinning of his past life caught up with him and he was struck down and killed. I know he is in the Kingdom of Heaven, but his time on earth was cut short because he chose the wrong path too many times. Maybe you can learn from Walt.
Rebuke, and tolerate. Not rebuke then execute.
Wow, sounds like kind of a rager. But what kind of rager starts at 6:00? Isn't Universal Party Time 10:00? or 11:00?
It was back in my day, I tells ya!
Any who, don't let anybody get hurt, don't drive drunk (seriously, driving drunk is one of the easiest ways to become a murderer) and enjoy celebrating with friends rather than enjoying intoxication. The former leads to awesomeness, the latter leads to AA or the graveyard.
But dont worry too much about what people say, people accused Jesus of being a drunkard too...
Pray for them and genuinely care
I can recall several miracles being performed in the bible where not only did the individual "feel" something, but the individual's life was significantly improved.
I can recall several miracles being performed in the bible where not only did the individual "feel" something, but the individual's life was significantly improved.
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