I disagree with a lot of stuff in the Westminster Confessional.

[lmnop9876]

Maybe Im just confused, but arent the Westminster and the 1689 London Baptist like *THE* Reformed Confessions? Can you really be Reformed without believeing and following one of them?

well, no. there's also the 39 articles of the Church of England, the Savoy Declaration of the Congregationalists and the Three Forms of Unity (Belgic Confession, Heidelberg Catechism, and Canons of Dordt. also, there's the confession of Patriarch Cyril Lucaris of Constantinople, which, although not accepted by any church that i know of, is reformed in teaching. i'm sure there's others, but i can't think of them right now.)

I disagree with a lot of stuff in the Westminster Confessional.

me too! i disagree with the double procession of the Holy Spirit, the limiting of baptism to sprinkling or pouring, or the absolute condemnation of the Pope as Antichrist. i don't have any major problem with the reformed view of the Lord's Supper, or with predestination.
just to go into what i disagree with in the confession:
the procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father and the Son: Jesus tells us that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. the Bible nowhere states that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son. so, i prefer the Orthodox idea of "from the Father by/through the Son."
the limiting of baptism to sprinkling/pouring: this should have been left as a matter of conscience, as the mode of baptism is not specified in the Bible.
the absolute condemnation of the Pope as Antichrist: i do not know what place the interpretation of some theologians of New Testament prophecy has in a confession of faith. perhaps a revised edition could say something like this: "nor can the Pope of Rome in any sense be called the head of the church, because he is an archheretic and a deceiver of many, vainly calling himself infallible and the supreme head of the church. we reject likewise the unscriptural doctrines and practices of his church, including the immaculate conception and sinless life of the blessed Virgin Mary, purgatory, indulgences, transubstantiation and the 'sacrifice of the mass', and all his other inventions." surely this would have to be of more effect than the current statement, which only rejects the Pope as antichrist, without providing valid proof. these statements could be supported by Scripture.
with regards to the teaching on the Lord's Supper, I prefer to leave the partaking of Christ's Body and Blood in the sacrament as a holy mystery, the true benefits of which can only be received by those partaking of it with faith in Christ, although i could agree with the statements in the WCF.

 

[4jacks]

If I am not mistaken, Tony Evans is a Dallas Theological Seminary grad and that would make him a 4-pointer for sure and possibly a 5-pointer!

What is a 4-point , 5-point thing???

And still... what is double predestination??


This thread has just thoroughly confused me.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

It is a sad thing that you have gone to a PCA church for so long and were never taught such a basic and biblical concept.

I'm afraid that has become common in the PCA. It was the case at the PCA church I am a member of, one which had a large contingent of members who had come from Arminian Baptists or Bible churches or non-denoms with an Arminian/dispensationalist teaching construct.

Needless to say, the lack of teaching Reformed/Biblical doctrine from the pulpit and by the RE's allowed for a certain amount of tension and division within the church. Now the RE's and pastor have vacated their offices, and a new pastor about to be ordained, hopefully that will be changing.

Tony Evans, huh? I'll admit, I like his preaching on topical matters such as family and daily living. His doctrine is not in line with scripture regarding election, though.

I like Tony Evans personally and with you find much of his teaching in practical Christian living to be right on. However, Dr. Evans is a full blown Arminian and dispensationalist so his theology must be closely discerned.

My perception is that you seek an office that you cannot honor or uphold.

I agree, and we should keep the lesson learned from the Charles Finney scandal always in mind.

 

[4jacks]

Dr. Evans is a full blown Arminian

No he is not, He does not Believe a Christian can lose his Salvation.

Man, you guys like the throw that word around like it was a Curse word!

"OH YEAH.... Well Your Mom is an Arminian!!"

Seriously people their is a lot more out there than Jacobus Armianianwhazzahaveit and Calvin. This is not a Two sided coin.

 

[Proeliator]

No he is not, He does not Believe a Christian can lose his Salvation.

Man, you guys like the throw that word around like it was a Curse word!

"OH YEAH.... Well Your Mom is an Arminian!!"

Seriously people their is a lot more out there than Jacobus Armianianwhazzahaveit and Calvin. This is not a Two sided coin.

Your right, but if we tell an Atminian that they are a Pelagian, they just wont get it. It really does boil down to that simple. You're either Orthodox, Lutheran, Calvinist or Arminian....Everyone else is juat an off shoot of those.

 

[4jacks]

Your right, but if we tell an Atminian that they are a Pelagian, they just wont get it. It really does boil down to that simple. You're either Orthodox, Lutheran, Calvinist or Arminian....Everyone else is juat an off shoot of those.

Well that is just completely silly!
isn't Calvinist a form of Lutheran??
I think the whole idea of "lets label everyone" is really stupid I don't 100% agree with any those labels.... So I am not Any of them. I agree with many things from all of those labels .... So that I am all of them.
Personally I think to pick up a title named after a man and call yourself that is close to idolatry. "I'm a Calvinist, I believe what Calvin taught" Well Calvin believed in Christ, and that was good enough for Calvin, but that doesn't do a darn thing for You.
It's like this, the Holy Spirit points us to Jesus Christ who gives us to God the Father. Does everyone agree with that basic statement? Why are we trying to add a step, Calvin points us to the Holy Spirit which points us to Jesus Christ who gives us to God the Father. Doesn't that seem silly?
Yes I know that Calling yourself a Calvinist doesn't necessarily mean you put your faith in Calvin. But when you put enough Faith in Calvin to believe that he (a MAN, just like you and me) was 100% correct in his theology is Idolotry. If you ask me it's worse than some branches of Catholics and their views on the Holy Virgin Mary, who lived a completely sinless life so that Jesus wasn't born in sin.

In closing, No one on this thread has a right to Label me. In order for me to be a Calvinist or a Lutheran or an Arminian, I have to claim that Label. If you would like to claim a Label, you have every right to do so, I wish you the best. The only I wish to claim is "Christian" But you do not have the right, ability, or sense to Label any other Christian.
In Closing, I would like to politely ask that a Moderator Close this Thread. My question has been sufficiently answered by members/elders/deacons of the PCA. Thank You to everyone who took the time to actually read the Questions I had and answer them, despite the fact that you disagree with my basic beliefs.

If anyone is actually interested, I have decieded to spend some time and pick apart the West minster Confessional. I will make a list of all the things I disagree with and take them to my Pastor. I will try my best to explain that although I disagree with these things, I would still like to continue to grow in the PCA. But I will make it clear that I am concerned about my Future role in the Church. If my pastor agrees that My disagreeances with the WMC are to large to ever be ordained as a Deacon (the office of ministry that I believe I am being Called too) Then when my wife and I are able to move closer to civilization we will look for a new church.
Anyone may feel free to call me names or labels via email or private messages, but I really do not wish to continue this debate over this thread.
Thanks Again...

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Well Calvin believed in Christ, and that was good enough for Calvin, but that doesn't do a darn thing for You.

Joseph Smith believed in Christ too. So did Charles Finney, and Benny Hinn.

The question is, the same question Jesus proposed to the disciples, "Who do YOU say that I AM?"

The Christ of Joseph Smith is a false christ, same for Finney and Hinn.

Making a profession to believe in Christ does not necessarily correlate into a true one.

If my pastor agrees that My disagreeances with the WMC are to large to ever be ordained as a Deacon (the office of ministry that I believe I am being Called too)

I am curious as to what makes you think you are being called to the office of deacon?

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

No he is not, He does not Believe a Christian can lose his Salvation.

Ok, then he is a semi-pelagian.

 

[4jacks]

I am curious as to what makes you think you are being called to the office of deacon?

Then Please ask in a Private message or an email, I have already stated that I would like this thread to be closed.

 

[StAnselm]

Closed at the OP's request.