I changed my stance on gun control!!!

[renniks]

Other countries do not have private ownership of guns in the same way that we do. I would hope that we do not have to go so far.

So we now see what you really want. No private gun owners.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Everything about it. It's total nonsense.
It would render many rounds completely useless.
You apparently don't understand how bullets work.

Backwards again. You do not need a hypersonic round to have an effective weapon. .223 bullets can have velocities exceeding 3,000 feet per second. They will still kill very easily at half that speed if one can aim.

Depending upon the distance one is firing one may have to adjust a scope a bit for a slower round, but aside from that why do you think that they would not work?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So we now see what you really want. No private gun owners.

No. I want to avoid that. I could accuse you of wanting no private gun owners since an all or nothing demand quite often ends up with nothing.

 

[renniks]

Backwards again. You do not need a hypersonic round to have an effective weapon. .223 bullets can have velocities exceeding 3,000 feet per second. They will still kill very easily at half that speed if one can aim.

So what is the point again?

 

[renniks]

Depending upon the distance one is firing one may have to adjust a scope a bit for a slower round, but aside from that why do you think that they would not work?

You are now only applying this to only one caliber? How do you think it's going to be enforceable?
Reloaders will just laugh and load em as they like.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So what is the point again?

You have not even been paying attention? I guess that appears to be the case since all you have is denial and no ability to support your claims

The problem is that some rounds are far too destructive due to the amount of powder used to propel them. Just because one can do that does not mean that it is a good idea to do so. One possible solution is to limit the amount of power behind any particular caliber. I gave the example of .22 shorts that still worked in a rifle that also shot .22 LR cartridges. The semiautomatic's reloading mechanism did not have any problem with that. Now one may need to learn how to aim more accurately if one wanted to use the rifle for varmint hunting, but aside from that I do not see any real drawbacks.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You are now only applying this to only one caliber? How do you think it's going to be enforceable?
Reloaders will just laugh and load em as they like.

Did I even imply that? I was using the .223 as on example. And it is easy to limit what a manufacturer sells. We already do that. You will not find an open market for tracer rounds. There is no reason that they could not be made, wisely the government decided that shooting literally "hot lead" is not a good idea in forest lands.

 

[renniks]

Did I even imply that? I was using the .223 as on example. And it is easy to limit what a manufacturer sells. We already do that. You will not find an open market for tracer rounds. There is no reason that they could not be made, wisely the government decided that shooting literally "hot lead" is not a good idea in forest lands.

" Joe, you know that ammo you sold me, it's just loaded way too hot. There go my plans to go shoot up the high school tomorrow. I was gonna commit mass murder but my conscience will just not allow me to do it with illegal bullets!"

 

[renniks]

Rotflol! Still in your fantasy world where hot loaded . .223's are the ultimate weapon of mass destruction, I see! Ever think that a person could just use a bigger bullet and do more damage? No, of course not, the .223 in your world is meaner than a .50 BMG.

The problem is that some rounds are far too destructive due to the amount of powder used to propel them.

 

[Subduction Zone]

" Joe, you know that ammo you sold me, it's just loaded way too hot. There go my plans to go shoot up the high school tomorrow. I was gonna commit mass murder but my conscience will just not allow me to do it with illegal bullets!"

A sad joke is all that you have? Seriously?

You might as well admit that you have no valid complaints.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Rotflol! Still in your fantasy world where hot loaded . .223's are the ultimate weapon of mass destruction, I see! Ever think that a person could just use a bigger bullet and do more damage? No, of course not, the .223 in your world is meaner than a .50 BMG.

Wow! Again with a strawman argument. You keep admitting that you are wrong with you debating techniques. People that can support their arguments do so. You only appear to have an irrational fear of losing your guns. Ironically you make it more likely to happen, not less, by opposing reasonable laws and regulations.

 

[renniks]

A sad joke is all that you have? Seriously?

You might as well admit that you have no valid complaints.

I have a lot of valid complaints. The fact that you don't immediately see them tells me you know nothing about power and loading bullets.

 

[renniks]

A sad joke is all that you have? Seriously?

You might as well admit that you have no valid complaints.

Let's start with the glaring one: it's impossible to have a standardized amount of powder allowed in all the different calibers. The minimum amount needed to stabilize one bullet is going to far exceed the maximum amount safely used in another bullets casing.
And again, it's completely unenforceable. Are you going to try and eliminate all reloaders? Now you just made a whole lot of other laws that are also unenforceable. If you don't understand why you have to eliminate all re loaders I might as well stop talking, because you are never going to understand.

 

[renniks]

Again with a strawman argument.

The fact that you still don't understand that there are calibers far more destructive than the little .223 is puzzling, since you have a computer to look things up with. Do you get all your information from CNN?

 

[Bradskii]

I'm not ignoring anything. I would much rather have at least a .243 if shooting something the size of a deer... it is about knock down power. If someone is trying to kill you, you want a round that stops them now, not one that can go straight through with minimal damage. Of course with perfect shot placement, even a .22 bullet is lethal. But for stopping someone charging at you? Why would you not want to maximum impact? How many bullet wounds have you examined?

Still don't see anything about diameter in the equation. And do the bad guys call in advance? Apart from tv shows and films that need the dramatic effect, someone who wants to steal your wife's jewellery and your laptop will tend to wait until you've actually left the house to get the groceries. Or buy some ammo.

 

[Bradskii]

For home defense, it would be hard to beat a 12 guage with 00 buckshot. You don't need precise shot placement when you have several .38 sized balls spreading out.

Every home should have one. Assuming you live in a war zone.

 

[Jamdoc]

Not to mention a rabid badger

I've never thought about encountering a badger in particular but yeah.. that could probably be quite a bit to deal with too.
any time I've gone out in the woods the primary thing I've wanted to be armed for was bears and mountain lions. Bears need the big thing.. I think I'd use the mossberg shockwave with a slug, or at least a .357 Magnum.

 

[Aldebaran]

The size of the cartridge is not what would be banned. It is the amount of powder behind a round that would need to be limited. One is far less likely to over power a larger round since then one begins to have some serious problems with recoil. A small caliber gun with a very hot round, such as many current .223 cartridges are worrisome because they do allow multiple shots in quick succession without lost of control of the firearm. That along with huge clips can make "pray and spray" an effective method of attack. Try that with a .30-06. Regular rounds have a fairly high recoil.

Would you then be ok if AR15s were chambered in something like 9mm?
Rifle, Resolute 200, Mk9, 9mm Radial Delayed Blowback™ | CMMG - AR 15 and AR 10 Builds and Parts

 

[dogs4thewin]

Those with criminal intent and live in areas with strict gun control have figured this out. That's why attacks and killings are up with knives. The result? Knife control: Knives taken off supermarket shelves in New Zealand after terrorist attack

that is crazy

 

[Jamdoc]

A few inches is still better than a single projectile.
I actually have turkey loads instead of buckshot but I don't have any close neighbors to worry about either.

I've heard of Turkey Loads being recommended, but I'm going to go with the FBI data that shows #3 or #4 buckshot as being more effective without overpenetrating. 00? unnecessary and adds more risk to my neighbors so I'd rather not.