I changed my stance on gun control!!!

[Aldebaran]

A few inches is still better than a single projectile.
I actually have turkey loads instead of buckshot but I don't have any close neighbors to worry about either.

There's a youtube channel that's rather interesting. It shows ballistic gelatin being shot with different types of projectiles in slow motion. Here's a vid of various shot shell rounds.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Maybe we should check with the guys who have to try to put people back together:

'When a patient is shot by an AR-15, it "looks like a grenade went off in there."

A bullet with more energy can do more damage. Its total kinetic energy is equal to one-half the mass of the bullet times its velocity squared. The bullet from a handgun is---as absurd as it may sound---slow compared to that from an AR-15. It can be stopped by the thick bone of the upper leg. It might pass through the body, only to become lodged in skin, which is surprisingly elastic.

The bullet from an AR-15 does an entirely different kind of violence to the human body. It’s relatively small, but it leaves the muzzle at three times the speed of a handgun bullet. It has so much energy that it can disintegrate three inches of leg bone. “It would just turn it to dust,” says Donald Jenkins, a trauma surgeon at University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio. If it hits the liver, “the liver looks like a jello mold that’s been dropped on the floor.” And the exit wound can be a nasty, jagged hole the size of an orange.'

That from the link posted earlier: What an AR-15 Can Do to the Human Body

Yes, as I said, it depends on what the bullet hits when passing through your body. A .223 rifle round is indeed a very high-energy round, but the overall energy of the round becomes less important if it isn't transferring all of that energy to the target.

And gee, look...there's that equation again. And don't you think it would be pretty dumb for the military to use ammo that would cause 'relatively little damage' if it didn't hit something vital. Me? I'd want something that would look like 'a grenade went off in there'.

The military considers several factors when choosing a rifle cartridge. 5.56mm was a compromise - it has less stopping power than 7.62mm/.308 (the previous NATO standard cartridge), especially at long range, but it also is significantly lighter and has less recoil. This allows soldiers to carry more ammunition and take more accurate follow-up shots.

 

[Aldebaran]

I answered your question.

If that were true, I wouldn't still be awaiting an answer.

I said "that God's Word does encourage homosexuality?" Where? Why do you ask a question if you are just going to make up the answer yourself anyway?

Why are taking my question as a statement? A question is the opposite of a statement. Asking questions in response to a question is a method of avoidance. If you wish to avoid answering my question, then just say so. Otherwise, I hope you'll answer the question.

 

[Bradskii]

You didn't answer my question. What difference do you think the lethality of the .223 makes such that you're particularly fearful of it?

Got kids in the house? Unless you've got a pea shooter then most bullets will go through at least one internal wall. Quite possibly after passing through a human body. Maybe keep you kids in separate rooms so there's less chance of both them getting hit with the same round. You know what they're like - they tend to huddle together when scared. How dumb do they act in a firefight...

I live about 500m from the beach. If I shot a .223 off in my garden looking east then there's a reasonable chance that some kid will get shot splashing around in the shallows.

 

[rturner76]

I've never thought about encountering a badger in particular but yeah.. that could probably be quite a bit to deal with too.
any time I've gone out in the woods the primary thing I've wanted to be armed for was bears and mountain lions. Bears need the big thing.. I think I'd use the mossberg shockwave with a slug, or at least a .357 Magnum.

In a 12 gauge, I alternate 00 Buck and slugs.

 

[durangodawood]

#1 gun free for all argument strategy: get your opponent to say a wrong gun thing or use wrong gun words.

 

[Bradskii]

Diameter is directly related to mass. A physics expert should know this.

Yeah, a toilet roll is waaay heavier than a steel rod. You should do some reading on bullet materials.

 

[Jamdoc]

There's a youtube channel that's rather interesting. It shows ballistic gelatin being shot with different types of projectiles in slow motion. Here's a vid of various shot shell rounds.

am I crazy or are some of the pellets rubber banding back out of the gel? at least in the bird shot it looks like it.

But as you can see.. #4 buckshot penetrated a foot into the gel, but wasn't overpenetrating, that's pretty good.
#1 looks like it'd go through someone skinny.
00 looks like it'd go all the way through... that wound cavity though, that's a dead man for sure.
000 .. that probably killed the neighbors in bed.

 

[Aldebaran]

Got kids in the house? Unless you've got a pea shooter then most bullets will go through at least one internal wall. Quite possibly after passing through a human body. Maybe keep you kids in separate rooms so there's less chance of both them getting hit with the same round. You know what they're like - they tend to huddle together when scared. How dumb do they act in a firefight...

I live about 500m from the beach. If I shot a .223 off in my garden looking east then there's a reasonable chance that some kid will get shot splashing around in the shallows.

The selection of a gun should include one's environment. If you live in an apartment, a shotgun with birdshot might be good for not overpenetrating walls, but not a great manstopper. It's a compromise. For someone who lives in a rural area, pretty much anything could work. In a suburban neighborhood home, you could choose a gun/ammo type based on what is beyond the most likely line of fire. For example, if a gun is being kept in a bedroom to be used in a stationary way such as closing the door and aiming at it in case the intruder enters, then you'd just have to be mindful of what's beyond the door and subsequent walls. If there are no other homes in that line of sight, or maybe your own garage is there to soak up the bullets, you're good to go.

 

[Jamdoc]

In a 12 gauge, I alternate 00 Buck and slugs.

I'm a little iffy about buckshot on a bear, I mean I'm pretty sure it'd work, but bears do be "thicc". So I'd like a slug.

 

[Aldebaran]

I'm a little iffy about buckshot on a bear, I mean I'm pretty sure it'd work, but bears do be "thicc". So I'd like a slug.

I've heard of bears being shot multiple times with a .357 and didn't seem to notice. They're pretty tough!

 

[RDKirk]

In a 12 gauge, I alternate 00 Buck and slugs.

Both buckshot and slugs will go through party walls pretty easily.

 

[RDKirk]

Got kids in the house? Unless you've got a pea shooter then most bullets will go through at least one internal wall. Quite possibly after passing through a human body. Maybe keep you kids in separate rooms so there's less chance of both them getting hit with the same round. You know what they're like - they tend to huddle together when scared. How dumb do they act in a firefight...

As you said, that would be true of any firearm, unless it's a "pea shooter." So why the particular terror of .223?

I live about 500m from the beach. If I shot a .223 off in my garden looking east then there's a reasonable chance that some kid will get shot splashing around in the shallows.

If you just fired a gun into the distance willy-nilly, that would be true of any centerfire rifle. So why the particular terror of .223?

 

[renniks]

Still don't see anything about diameter in the equation.

What equation? You can't understand that a bigger chunk of lead does more damage than a small one? Dirty Harry wasn't wrong about that.

 

[renniks]

Every home should have one. Assuming you live in a war zone.

Be prepared for anything and you will survive longer.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Let's start with the glaring one: it's impossible to have a standardized amount of powder allowed in all the different calibers. The minimum amount needed to stabilize one bullet is going to far exceed the maximum amount safely used in another bullets casing.
And again, it's completely unenforceable. Are you going to try and eliminate all reloaders? Now you just made a whole lot of other laws that are also unenforceable. If you don't understand why you have to eliminate all re loaders I might as well stop talking, because you are never going to understand.

LOL! I never proposed using the same amount of powder for all calibers. Wow, you cannot debunk that which you did not understand.

As to reloaders, they do not tend to be the problem when it comes to mass shootings etc.. If they go into business and start selling their ammo, that is probably already highly illegal without a license of some sort. I am far more worried about mass produced cartridges. But if their still was a problem with that one would only need to start to regulate the sale of gun powder more than it is already regulated.

 

[Jamdoc]

I've heard of bears being shot multiple times with a .357 and didn't seem to notice. They're pretty tough!

That's just scary. You definitely don't want to cross paths with a momma bear

 

[Jamdoc]

Both buckshot and slugs will go through party walls pretty easily.

while true in this case we were talking about bears, you WANT good penetration against bears.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The fact that you still don't understand that there are calibers far more destructive than the little .223 is puzzling, since you have a computer to look things up with. Do you get all your information from CNN?

No, you do not even understand the argument. I never made that argument. You are simply refusing to listen. Perhaps it is fear on your part.

So far you have not really been paying any attention at all. You only have denial and then you demonstrate that you have not been following the discussion. How are you going to refute anyone with that sort of approach?

 

[renniks]

LOL! I never proposed using the same amount of powder for all calibers. Wow, you cannot debunk that which you did not understand.

As to reloaders, they do not tend to be the problem when it comes to mass shootings etc.. If they go into business and start selling their ammo, that is probably already highly illegal without a license of some sort. I am far more worried about mass produced cartridges. But if their still was a problem with that one would only need to start to regulate the sale of gun powder more than it is already regulated.

So you have a worthless, unenforceable law. Again with no point, because you can kill just as easy, even in the unlikely event that criminals chose to obey it. You think criminals won't reload? Weird assumption. And where does it lead? To more laws! What a surprise! More laws that will only hurt those who obey laws. Criminals will still get their powder illegally.