I can't marry this non-virgin!!!

[Vollkommen Warrior]

"I guess the media sends us all sorts of ridiculous and unrealistic messages, I guess that's why we shouldnt listen to the media for advice, we should listen to the bible." Steveso
Yes we should. We are however BOMBED with messages everywhere we go. The bible takes a back seat to most cultures these days. We have to learn to filter them. Heck, even that show "Friends" portrays your average 20's, early 30's folks thinking an evening of sex as nothing. We end up adopting this as ACCEPTIBLE so easily! Filter, filter, filter!

 

[paul becke]

Mary Magdalene was almost certainly the closest person to the Virgin Mary, and after Mary, to Jesus, who's ever lived. Do you think that you would be worthy of her hand in marriage - even if you were still a virgin, Steve? Why would your lady friend be sorry for her past affairs? She was brought up in a culture that told her every hour of the day that sex is like breathing.

The questions you should ask yourself now, it seems to me, are:

Is she a loving person?

Am I a loving person?

Would she see me now as sufficiently loving to cherish as her husband until death us do part?

Do you think you would remain faithful to her, if some beautiful young woman came on strongly to you, perhaps much later in life?

These questions are germane to any marriage any of us contract.

In short, Steve, we ourselves are likely to be the main problem, in any marriage we eventually contract. Until we, with God's grace, develop or nuture a loving heart, and the judgement/discretion that will go with it, our choices are always likely to founder on our weakness and shortcomings. If only because we will be turned down by Miss Right, because we don't ourselves measure up.

My wife still carrries a torch for her ex-husband of thirty-five years ago, and I for girls I've known; because, basically, we're temperamentally like chalk and cheese. But, somehow we love each other to bits. It hasn't always been easy, but the longer we've persevered the more crazy we are about each other. And that is one of the greatest of gifts imaginable, though one give to many other couples. We've always tried to put each other first, though, whether it's the number and quality of the halves of tinned peaches we dole out to each other, or what.

I hope all three of you are very happy whatever choices you and your lady friend make. It would be nice if you could both come to really love each other, though it may be as hard for her as it apparently is for you, at the moment, if she reads your attitude.

 

[layne]

I guess this is rather late in the discussion.
If you're wishing these bad things on your future child, STOP IT NOW!!! This kinda stuff causes demonic bondage, and your child will suffer unless this is rebuked. Also, don't forget that you're not a virgin now. If you wanted a virgin, you shouldn't have had sex. If you do get with a virgin in the future, she'll feel this exact way towards you. God does everything for a reason, and if you were abiding by the OT laws, you'd be forced to marry her. Put God first in everything you do, and you'll find happiness. From what you've told us, you're doing exactly the opposite.

 

[paul becke]

There's saying they have in rural Ireland, I believe, about women who seek an abortion: "She's afraid of the calf, but she wasn't afraid of the bull!" Your attitude seems the male variant of that, Steve.

 

[paul becke]

You've taken a lot of flack, Steve, but you've got to be admired for your honesty.

 

[jessiegirl]

Steve,
I can understand the disappointment you must feel. You had a dream of things being so different. And now you have this major life altering event coming at you. This has sent your life into a tail spin. But God is sending this baby here for a reason! God loves this baby so much. He wants you to love this baby as He loves you and He loves this baby. Things happen for a reason. I think you need to embrace this child as a gift from God. Maybe you don't have to accept the mother right away. Time has a way of healing resentment. This baby could be the best thing that happens to you. You can find the right wife that will respect you for accepting and embracing your reponsibilities as a father and she can love this baby as well. I think you have to accept that it is God's will that this is happening. Pray for him to soften you heart.

jessiegirl

 

[redjosh]

awful thread. awful people. where is the love?

all my blessings and prayers go out to you steve.
stay strong and know the grace of God.

 

[paul becke]

It's not uncommon for insults to be blessings, and praise and admiration to give cause for the gravest concern, when expressed by some individuals.

Where indeed is your love for the girl, buddie? Oh, sorry. I forgot! She was just a common, dirty old sinner. Not a formal Christian. I imagine you're a prime exemplar of that strength you saw in Steve. Water finds its own level. Stay strong, random and hardcore. Your input's just what Steve needs.

 

[Vance]

Right, I don't think Steve needed fellow Christians to pat him on the back and say "there, there." What he needed from his brothers in Christ was a swift kick in the pants. Not because of the sin, but because of his attitude toward the situation and this woman and child he is now responsible for.

 

[ceres]

Yes and now that we all have told him how we feel, he's down. I say we not continue to kick him while he is down... Steve, you know you shocked me with the whole earlier posts, but I think you are going through a process of feelings.... its like you are in mourning for your irresponsible days. I am sure being so close to the birth of the baby has you out of wack. You are going to be a dad and have a lot of work to do.. and you seem to be doing it. Just don't let your thought process get you down. Don't get stuck in "its not fair that I got her pregnant" really this can still become a blessing somehow. I hope that the boy is beautiful, and it would be ideal if someday you can fall in love with the mother of your baby. But if that doesn't happen, don't force it. let us know what happens

 

[Vance]

Ceres, you are a bigger man (er, woman) than I am.

I have a very hard time suffering fools, especially when are whiny, angst-ridden, hypocritical fools. But you are right, it *could* just be his reaction to the situation and not a generally self-indulgent, childish personality. You are right to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Steve, you should realize that you and the mother are equals in this matter. You both sinned, you both will pay the consequences. She may be having the baby, but that means nothing, she is simply carrying him for the two of you. It sounds like you are willing to stand up and be a man about it, and that is good. Just don't treat the mother like she is somehow at fault or to blame or responsible for the situation any more than you are.

And, as Ceres said, all things work together for good . . .

 

[Vollkommen Warrior]

I wondered WTH I was doing with my life b4 kids? Kids are the meaning of life and a lot of fun. You will see.

 

[ReUsAbLePhEoNiX]

I guess this is rather late in the discussion.
If you're wishing these bad things on your future child, STOP IT NOW!!! This kinda stuff causes demonic bondage, and your child will suffer unless this is rebuked. Also, don't forget that you're not a virgin now. If you wanted a virgin, you shouldn't have had sex. If you do get with a virgin in the future, she'll feel this exact way towards you. God does everything for a reason, and if you were abiding by the OT laws, you'd be forced to marry her. Put God first in everything you do, and you'll find happiness. From what you've told us, you're doing exactly the opposite.

Wha?!Demonic bondage? nevermind, another topic

 

[Steveseo]

I haven't really been on this thread for a couple of days because I've started to wonder whether there is any point in arguing on this thread at all.

This is my first thread on Christian forums, and it may be the last. I'm starting to wonder whether there was a point in me starting this thread at all. It has only stirred up a lot of bad emotions and feelings for a lot of people, especially one guy in particular, who has consequently judged me to the n-th degree and lashed out at me big time!

I perhaps always had this misunderstanding that the main and most important quality of God and of Christians was LOVE! I also perhaps misunderstood that we as Christians should not judge others, and the only being with knowledge and authority enough to judge us was God, and that older age, experience, etc, still didn't give us the right to judge others with less age and experience.

In my opinion, judgement and preference for a marriage partner are 2 seperate issues however. God does give us the right to choose our marriage partner, based upon the character that that person is. God gives us the right to choose our marriage partner on many different grounds. I don't believe this is judging or sinful. If you are married, how did you choose your partner?? As far as I'm aware, it's not even a sin to refuse to marry someone just because they are ugly (this is not why I refuse to marry her, I actually think she is quite good-looking). I also believe that God doesnt stipulate that a person has to get married at all. Living a single life and being celebate is not a sin, as far as I know - afterall Jesus never got married.

Another belief that I have too, is that if you do something good that you have no obligation or duty to do (i.e. it's not a sin not to do it), but you do it anyway, then that's good. Good on you. God bless you for doing that. However, you DO NOT go on to EXPECT others to do the same, then go and judge and vent your anger at others when they don't do the same! In my opinion, that's called jealousy - when you get angry at someone else because they don't go through the (voluntary) suffering that you do, or when you get angry at someone else because you think they have it better than you. I don't want to name names here, because I believe that it is wrong to judge.

Another possible misunderstanding that I had was that from the moment you repent for your sins and you ask the lord for forgiveness, you are straight away forgiven, and as long as you remove them sins from your life, you are eternally forgiven. There are many bad things that I have done in the past - yes, I agree, but I long-ago (many months ago), repented, asked the lord for forgiveness, and have removed the continuation of those sins from my life. My opening post stated these facts. Yet still, post after post I am constantly judged for these past sins, and told how bad they are, and told how bad I am for committting them. THIS IS NOT NEWS TO ME PEOPLE!!! I REPENTED MONTHS BEFORE I STARTED THIS THREAD!!! WHY MUST SOME OF YOU CONTINUE TO JUDGE ME FOR THEM SINS WHEN I RECOGNISED HOW BAD THEY WERE SO LONG AGO, REPENTED FOR THEM, AND ASKED FOR FORGIVENESS???

Thankyou all for some of your recent comments. I don't like to hold any grudges against anyone. Afterall, the bible says (as far as I'm aware) that we must love everyone, even our enemies. Even that one guy in particular - I love you, and God bless you. No, you aren't my enemy.

From what I've gathered, the basic conclusion of what I am meant to do still stands as:
1. I should accept my responsibility and be a good father to this child. Meaning giving financial and other support, and loving and caring for my son (it's a boy) for the rest of his life, and also becoming a good example for him.
2. I should cooperate with the mother in parenting, for the child's sake, and treat her with great respect. I am not obliged to marry her, God gave me the freedom to choose my life partner for myself, or to choose to remain single and celebate for life. I am allowed to consider such qualities as her past and her attitude to her past, when I choose a marriage partner, but I should also expect to be chosen in the same way.
3. I should ensure that those same sins don't happen again, including fornication, and also including wishing that my child was dead.

Thanks for your help.

PS: I don't mean any hard feelings towards anyone in my posts. I wish you all the best. God bless.

 

[Vance]

Steve, from the beginning, the problem was not with your sin. No one has condemned you for that. The problem has been your attitude regarding the mother and child.

While generally you do have the right to choose your spouse, it is VERY hypocritical and selfish to insist upon marrying a virgin after your own life choices. And in the process you are, yourself, judging and condemning the mother of this child. You are acting as if you are somehow better than her, that she is somehow not worthy of you. This is a very poor attitude.

You are forgiven of your sins, but that does not mean there are not consequences for those sins. You need to consider whether one of those consequences is your loss of complete choice in your spouse. What is best for the child? In this case, it is probably true that marrying the mother would not be a good idea, but only because of your own attitude and likely inability to avoid resentment over your lost "virgin fantasy".

Yes, Christians are supposed to love one another. Love is not always shown in agreement and back-patting. As Dobson often says, Christian love often requires showing our brothers where their attitude or actions are not appropriate. Yours were not. It would be doing you a disservice to allow you to walk away from this thinking that you could continue to maintain the attitudes you expressed regarding the mother and child in your original post.

 

[paul becke]

Yes, ceres, I thought my last post on the matter was at least verging on "kicking Steve when he was down", and know I shouldn't have sent it.

I also suspect and hope I misjudged Redjosh, and his blunt vilification of us was not on the basis of his attachment to a Pharisaic formalism, but on a recognition by him that Steve wasn't being given enough credit for opening his heart to us, particularly since, after all, he was doing so because he was uncomfortable about his feelings and reactions, not because he cherished them or was proud of them. That *is* strength. If so, it's good that Steve had at least one staunch, ornery, outspoken friend in his corner. Everyone could do with a friend like that. Even if he does have a crummy motto..! Random and hardcore...!?!

Every best wish to you, Steve, and I'm sorry if I made your problems worse.

 

[Vance]

Hey Vance,

I don't know what OP stands for, sorry.

I know that a lot of what I've said really touches some nerves in your own life. I'm sincerely sorry for that.

The worldly media basically tells us males, that it is good to be sexually active when you are young, and to have sex with many different beautiful women, but the wordly media also tells us that you should then go and marry a virgin. This is pretty crazy, because we know that this is just not possible, because there's only as many women as there are men, and if most of them have been screwing around while young, then there aint going to be many virgins left for marriage! I guess the media sends us all sorts of ridiculous and unrealistic messages, I guess that's why we shouldnt listen to the media for advice, we should listen to the bible.

I guess in your case you have put yourself last, and put your partner and everyone else first, which I guess is the Christian and most selfless thing to do, and I only wish that I was also selfless and faithful enough to do similarly. God bless you. I hope everything is going well in your marriage and everything continues to go well.

I don't think there's a commandment which says "thal shalt marry a virgin". On the contrary, marrying a virgin, when there aren't enough of them to go around, may even be selfish and greedy???? I don't know. I don't want to point the finger at anyone. It's very difficult for me to say anything in here without getting blasted about it. Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut. Maybe that's why I'm a pretty quiet guy in real life.

Once again Vance, I apologise if anything that I've said has provoked any doubt at all about your marriage. I wish you all the best in your marriage.

Sorry I missed this post earlier. As someone pointed out, OP means Original Post. As for sparking a nerve of some sort, not in relation to my personal life at all. My wife and I did not have to get married when we did, she was not pregnant, etc. We have a wonderful marriage and I can not imagine how it could be any better. I had been in the position you are now with an earlier girlfriend, though, and had a very different attitude than you expressed in your OP. It turned out she was not pregnant after all.

It did strike a nerve, though, in regards to hypocrisy and your condemning attitude regarding the mother of your child. That will always strike a very negative cord in me. Your attitude that somehow she was not good enough for you, or "damaged goods" in some way, when you were a participant in the damage (!) was one of the more obnoxious posts I have seen.

As for conflicting messages, I don't see society promoting marrying a virgin at all. The Church, yes, but it seems a bit much to hold that out as an absolute requirement when you have not maintained your own purity.

Regardless, I am glad to see you are willing to step up and shoulder your responsibility.

 

[wvmtnkid]

I would have to agree with Vance, Steve. I don't think anyone was condemning you because of your sin, it was your attitude that seemed to be garnishing everyone's ire. While we can not judge your heart, as I said in an earlier post, we are called as Christians to admonish each other. If we see one getting out of line or straying, we are to guide them back in. Vance said it best in his last post. If you came here looking for us to say, It's ok to walk away from your responsibility because you have repented, I am afraid you were mistaken. Forgiveness doesn't mean that the consequences of sin are taken away. You sinned by having premarital sex. You have repented and asked forgiveness. Good, you should have. But there are consequences of that sin that you are still going to be held responsible for. God is a God of Love, but people seem to forget that He is also a just God as well. He disciplines us much like our own parents discipline us when we misbehave and don't follow the rules. And sometimes that means we don't get our way. But that doesn't mean he can't take what has happened and make something good out of it, which we have also been trying to tell you.

This seems to be a touchy subject. Your sins are between you and God. You made them between you and us when you came here and confessed them! Please don't leave the board. Stay around and get to know us. I think most here, myself included, were just reacting to want we seen as an injustice to an unborn child. In a later post you indicated you had been providing care for the mother and making plans for care for the child. I also seen you as pointing fingers at the mother while not wanting to take any blame onto yourself. Yes, you had repented, but you still had a part in your son's presence in this world.

Perhaps, it was some misunderstanding. I don't know. I just couldn't in good conscience let you think that your attitude was the right one to have in regards to this woman and your son. Did I hate you? No. But I did disagree. I do wish you the best and do hope you have a beautiful happy healthly baby boy who melts your heart and changes your life all for the good!

 

[ragamuffin girl]

Mister, your character is what you should be so upset about, not your loss of some "virgin bride". You almost sound like an fundamentalist terrorist, "God will reward me with seven virgins in heaven for all of my hard work." you want a trophy, not a help-meet. Maybe you should consider Britney Spears--I know she's a virgin. I think your kid is better off without you, as you are already hoping it dies.

 

[ragamuffin girl]

I'm glad someone gave you the third degree. I can't believe that in the face of getting a woman pregnant you had the audacity to blame-shift and try to get out of it. Where have all the cowboys gone?