I believe in Jesus, but I cannot accept some mainstream Christian beliefs.

[Der Alte]

Actually, I've studied Greek at the Masters level also and am well informed concerning this topic. And I don't recall even seeing the websites, "hellmakers" or "tentbusters", and have read little of any Universalist's material. What I believe, has come from my personal study of scripture and prayer - though it is certainly not what I was taught in seminary.

Wonder how you knew that Tentmakers and Hellbusters, which I refer to as tentbusters and hellmakers, were universalist sites since you claim to have read very little such material.

From my studies I've come to believe that "aionios" is likely best translated as "eternal", but does not signify length of time; rather, aionios is used to speak of that which comes from the realm of God that transcends time, that which is of God. Eternal judgment is not judgment that lasts endlessly, but is judgment that comes from God. The "eternal" fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah is not still burning, but was fire from God that came in judgment.

I have studied this extensively and I have never seen any credible evidence to support your conclusion. Here you have one proof text which you think defines aionios in all its applications, rather than reviewing all the relevant texts and language sources. I would be interested in seeing any historical evidence which shows, "Eternal judgment is not judgment that lasts endlessly, but is judgment that comes from God." Particularly since the ancient Jews, before and during the time of Christ, held the view that the unrighteous were punished eternally, without end, and Jesus said or did nothing which contradicts this view.

But from your response it seems that you're pretty hardened in your beliefs and not desiring to respectfully discuss the verses I mentioned or the issue at hand, with me at least. And I'm not one to waiste time and effort in useless denunciations, baseless accusations, or prejudicial assumptions. I was hoping we could have a civil discussion on the issue, but apparently not.

Strange that you should accuse me of not desiring to respectfully discuss the verses you mentioned and not being willing to have a civil discussion when you ignored three of my previous posts where I discussed this subject in great detail.

 

[ShermanN]

Wonder how you knew that Tentmakers and Hellbusters, which I refer to as tentbusters and hellmakers, were universalist sites since you claim to have read very little such material.

Actually, I've never heard of the "hellmakers" site. I have read some of the material on "tentmakers", but it's been awhile and you actually wrote "tentbusters" in you previous post, not "tentmakers". I assumed that they were Universalist sites from your apparent derision of them. If you want to read more into that than there is, oh well.

I have studied this extensively and I have never seen any credible evidence to support your conclusion. Here you have one proof text which you think defines aionios in all its applications, rather than reviewing all the relevant texts and language sources. I would be interested in seeing any historical evidence which shows, "Eternal judgment is not judgment that lasts endlessly, but is judgment that comes from God." Particularly since the ancient Jews, before and during the time of Christ, held the view that the unrighteous were punished eternally, without end, and Jesus said or did nothing which contradicts this view.

Well, I encourage you to study a some more. Concerning the texts that I mentioned, I just raise them as a means of discussing the uses of the word "aionios". I find it much better to take one or two scriptures at a time to discuss, otherwise discussions just degrade into useless arguments and denunciations.

Concerning the belief of the Jews, as noted before, the Pharisees taught that most who went to Gehenna rose again to Eden after being purified. The Jewish traditional mourning of 11 months is based on this belief. And the Rabbis debated on what happened to the most wicked, whether they were annihilated in Gehenna, or continued to suffer there indefinately, but there was no concensus on this. Several Jewish sites note this, even the one you quoted, if I recall correctly. Of course, they did not have the revelation of the Atonement we have in Christ; but that's another issue.

Concerning the other resourses I mentioned, I'll gladly copy their material and post it next week when I get back to this.

Strange that you should accuse me of not desiring to respectfully discuss the verses you mentioned and not being willing to have a civil discussion when you ignored three of my previous posts where I discussed this subject in great detail.

I find it best to eat an elephant one bite at a time; and so based on your post I responded to I thought discussing the various meanings of "aionios" would be a good start. Without limiting the discussion to one thing, it get too unwieldy and usually degrades into useless arguments quickly.

Concerning you being disrespectful in the tone and verbage of your posts, well, like I've noted before, I don't want to just argue, much less get into useless denunciations and accusations. If you have so little respect for people who believe differently than you do like me, then it's almost impossible to have a useful discussion with you.

I don't assume that I know everything, and thus enjoy discussing issues with those who believe differently than I do. And you seem to be a pretty knowledgeable fellow that I would enjoy discussing this with. But I tire pretty quickly of just arguing. If you don't want to discuss the passages I mentioned, ok. And if you want to discuss another specific issue ok. But referencing three previous long posts and making any meaningful discussion with you contingent upon discussing those three posts effectively stifles any discussion.

For now, I'll just quote Barclay on "aionios", though it's possible others might have already posted this here; I don't know.

Blessings,
Sherman

 

[ShermanN]

If anyone is interested, the following is William Barclay's article on AIONIOS - from his work, New Testament Words. It's lengthy, but I found it interesting.

We do well to search out the true meaning of the word aionios, for in the NT this is the word which is usually translated eternal or everlasting, and it is applied to the eternal life and the eternal glory, which are the Christian's highest reward, and to the eternal judgment and the eternal punishment, which must be the Christian's greatest dread.

Even in classical and in secular Greek aionios is a strange word, with a sense of mystery in it. Itself it is an adjective formed from the noun aion. In classical Greek this word aion has three main meanings.

(i) It means a life-time. Herodotus can speak of ending our aion (Herodotus, 1.32); Aeschylus, of depriving a man of his aion (Aeschylus, Prometheus 862); and Euripides of breathing away one's aion (Euripides, fragment 801).

(ii) Then it comes to mean an age, a generation, or an epoch. So the Greeks could speak of this present aion, and of the aion which is to come, this present age and the age which is to come.

(iii) But then the word comes to mean a very long space of time. The prepositional phrase ap'aionos means from of old; and di'aionos means perpetually and for ever. It is just here that the first mystery begins to enter in. In the papyri we read how at a public meeting the crowd shout `The Emperor eis ton aiona, The Emperor for ever.'

The adjective aionios becomes in Hellenistic Greek times the standing adjective to describe the Emperor's power. The royal power of Rome is a power which is to last for ever. And so, as Milligan well puts it, the word aionios comes to describe 'a state wherein the horizon is not in view'. Aionios becomes the word of far distances, the word of eternities, the word which transcends time.

But it was Plato who took this word aionios -- he may even have coined it -- and gave it its special mysterious meaning. To put it briefly, for Plato aionios is the word of eternity in contrast with time. Plato uses it, as it has been said, 'to denote that which has neither beginning nor end, and that is subject to neither change nor decay, that which is above time, but of which time is a moving image'.

Plato does not mean by this word simply indefinite continuance -- this is a point to which we must later return -- but that which is above and beyond time. There are three significant instances of the word in Plato.




In the second book of the Republic (363d) Plato is talking of the poets' pictures of heaven. He talks of the rewards Musaeus and Eumolpus offer the just men: 'They take them down into the world below, where they have the saints lying on couches at a feast, everlastingly drunk, with garlands on their heads; their idea seems to be that an immortality of drunkenness (aionios methe) is the highest meed of virtue.'

• In The Laws he speaks of the soul and the body being indestructible, but not eternal (904a). There is a difference between simple existence for ever and eternity, for eternity is the possession of gods, not of men.

The most significant of all the Platonic passages is in the Timaeus 37d. There he speaks about the Creator and the universe which he has created, 'the created glory of the eternal gods' -- The Creator was glad when he saw his universe, and he wished to make it as nearly like the eternal universe as it could be. But 'to attach eternity to the created was impossible.' So he made time as a moving image of eternity.

• The essential point in this picture is that eternity is always the same and always indivisible; in it there is no being created and no becoming; there is no such thing as being older and younger in eternity; there is no past, present or future.

• There is no was or will be but only an eternal is.

Obviously we cannot have that state in a created world; but none the less the created world is, within its limits, the image of eternity.




Here then is the salient fact.

• The essence of the word aionios is that it is the word of the eternal order as contrasted with the order of this world; it is the word of deity as contrasted with humanity; essentially it is the word which can be properly applied to no one other than God. Aionios is the word which describes nothing less and nothing other than the life of God.

We must now turn to the use of the word aionios in the NT itself. By far its most important usage there is in connection with eternal life. But that usage is so important that we must retain it for separate treatment. And we must first take a sweeping view of all its usages.

As we do so we must remember that aionios is distinctively the word of eternity, and that it can properly describe only that which essentially belongs to and befits God. (that which belongs to and comes from God.)

It is used of the great blessings of the Christian life, blessings which have been brought by Jesus Christ.

It is used of the eternal covenant of which Christ is the mediator (Heb. 13.20). A covenant means a relationship with God, and through Jesus Christ men enter into a relationship with God which is as eternal as God himself.

It is used of the eternal habitations into which the Christian shall enter (Luke 16.9; II Cor. 5.1.). The ultimate destiny of the Christian is a life which is none other than the life of God himself.

It is used of the eternal redemption and the eternal inheritance into which the Christian enters through Jesus Christ (Heb. 9.15). The safety, the liberty, the release which Christ wrought for men is as lasting as God himself.

It is used of the glory into which the faithful Christian will enter (I Peter 5.10; II Cor. 4.17; II Tim. 2.10). There awaits God's faithful man God's own glory.

So it is used in connection with the words hope and salvation (Titus 3.7; II Tim. 2.10). There is nothing fleeting, impermanent, destructible about the Christian hope and salvation; even another world could not change or alter them; they are as unchangeable as God himself.

It is used of the Kingdom of Jesus Christ (II Peter 1.11). Jesus Christ is not surpassable; he is not a stage on the way; his revelation, his value is the revelation and the value of God himself.

It is used of the Gospel (Rev. 14.6). The Gospel is not merely one of many revelations; it is not merely a stage on the way of revelation; it is eternity entered into time.

But while aionios is used to describe the greatest blessings of the Christian life, it is also used to describe the greatest threats of the Christian life.

It is used to describe the fire of punishment (Matt. 18.8; 25.41; Jude 7). It is used to describe punishment itself (Matt. 25.46). It is used to describe judgment (Heb. 6.2). It is used to describe destruction (II Thess. 1.9). It is used to describe the sin which finally separates man from God (Mark 3.29).




It is in these passages that we need to be especially careful in our interpretation of the word. Simply to take is as meaning lasting for ever is not enough. In all these passages we must remember the essential meaning of aionios.

• Aionios is the word of eternity as opposed to and contrasted with time. It is the word of deity as opposed to and contrasted with humanity. It is the word which can only really be applied to God.

If we remember that, we are left with one tremendous truth -- both the blessings which the faithful shall inherit and the punishment which the unfaithful shall receive are such as befits God to give and to inflict.



Beyond that we cannot go.

• Simply to take the word aionios, when it refers to blessings and punishment, to mean lasting far ever is to oversimplify, and indeed to misunderstand, the word altogether. It means far more than that.

It means that that which the faithful will receive and that which the unfaithful will suffer is that which it befits God's nature and character to bestow and to inflict -- and beyond that we who are men cannot go, except to remember that that nature and character are holy love.




We must now turn to the greatest of all uses of the word aionios in the NT, its use in connection with the phrase eternal life.

• We must begin by reminding ourselves of the fact which we have so often stressed, that the word aionios is the word of eternity in contrast with time, of deity in contrast with humanity, and that therefore eternal life is nothing less than the life of God himself.

(i) The promise of eternal life is the promise that it is open to the Christian to share nothing less than the power and the peace of God himself. Eternal life is the promise of God (Titus 1.2; I John 2.25). God has promised us a share in his own blessedness, and God cannot break a promise.

(ii) But the NT goes further than that -- eternal life is not only the promise of God; eternal life is the gift of God (Rom. 6.23; I John 5.11). As we shall see, eternal life is not without its conditions; but the fact remains that eternal life is something which God out of his mercy and grace gives to man. It is something which we could neither earn nor deserve; it is the free gift of God to men.




(iii) Eternal life is bound up with Jesus Christ. Christ is the living water which is the elixir of eternal life (John 4.14). He is the food which brings to men eternal life (John 6.27, 54). His words are the words of eternal life (John 6.68). He himself not only brings (John 17.2, 3) but is eternal life (I John 5.20).

• If we wish to put this very simply, we may say that through Jesus there is possible a relationship, an intimacy, a unity with God which are possible in no other way. Through what he is and does men may enter into the very life of God himself.

(iv) This eternal life comes through what the NT calls belief in Jesus Christ (John 3.15, 16, 36; 5.24; 6.40, 47; I John 5.13; 1 Tim. 1.16). What does this belief mean? Clearly it is not simply intellectual belief. Belief in Jesus means that we believe absolutely and implicitly that what Jesus says about God is true... that life is in the hands of the love of God. But further, this belief means believing that Jesus is who he claims to be... We believe that God is Father and that God is love, because we believe that Jesus, being the Son of God, has told us the truth about God ... Eternal life is nothing else than the life of God himself...

• We shall never enter into the full ideas of eternal life until we rid ourselves of the almost instinctive assumption that eternal life means primarily life which goes on for ever.

Long ago the Greeks saw that such a life would be by no means necessarily a blessing. They told the story of Aurora, the goddess of dawn, who fell in love with Tithonus, the mortal youth. Zeus offered her any gift she might choose for her mortal lover. She asked that Tithonus might never die; but she forgot to ask that he might remain for ever young. So Tithonus lived for



ever growing older and older and more and more decrepit, till life became a terrible and intolerable curse.

• Life is only of value when it is nothing less than the life of God -- and that is the meaning of eternal life.

 

[Kal Perry]

I have studied this extensively and I have never seen any credible evidence to support your conclusion. Here you have one proof text which you think defines aionios in all its applications, rather than reviewing all the relevant texts and language sources. I would be interested in seeing any historical evidence which shows, "Eternal judgment is not judgment that lasts endlessly, but is judgment that comes from God." Particularly since the ancient Jews, before and during the time of Christ, held the view that the unrighteous were punished eternally, without end, and Jesus said or did nothing which contradicts this view.

Der Alter, Clearly the Talmud does not teach everlasting punishment in Gehinnom, although there is not a consenus from the Rabbi's. Most believe that there is the righteous dead, destined for Gan Eden, they are the first group, the second group is the wicked dead, Dan. 12:2 "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt, this contempt can be found in Mal. 5:3 ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet.. The third group will descend to Gehinnom and ascend from Gehinnom, as it is said " I will bring the third part through fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, Zech.....

This is according to the Talmud. Regardless of the exact understanding, Jews do not believe in everlasting punishment with any consistency and furthermore they do not think only Jews will receive Salvation.

Jews do not believe in eternal punishment as we Christians do, although some believe that the extremely wicked will be annihaliated, and the other will be punished remedially for twelve months until they are purified.

 

[Der Alte]

[ . . . ]Concerning the belief of the Jews, as noted before, the Pharisees taught that most who went to Gehenna rose again to Eden after being purified. The Jewish traditional mourning of 11 months is based on this belief. And the Rabbis debated on what happened to the most wicked, whether they were annihilated in Gehenna, or continued to suffer there indefinately, but there was no concensus on this. Several Jewish sites note this, even the one you quoted, if I recall correctly. Of course, they did not have the revelation of the Atonement we have in Christ; but that's another issue.

Concerning the other resourses I mentioned, I'll gladly copy their material and post it next week when I get back to this.[ . . . ]

Der Alter, Clearly the Talmud does not teach everlasting punishment in Gehinnom, although there is not a consenus from the Rabbi's. Most believe that there is the righteous dead, destined for Gan Eden, they are the first group, the second group is the wicked dead, Dan. 12:2 "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt, this contempt can be found in Mal. 5:3 ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet.. The third group will descend to Gehinnom and ascend from Gehinnom, as it is said " I will bring the third part through fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, Zech.....

This is according to the Talmud. Regardless of the exact understanding, Jews do not believe in everlasting punishment with any consistency and furthermore they do not think only Jews will receive Salvation.

Jews do not believe in eternal punishment as we Christians do, although some believe that the extremely wicked will be annihaliated, and the other will be punished remedially for twelve months until they are purified.

Here is part of an article from the Jewish Encyclopedia which discusses the ancient Jewish, before and during the time of Christ, understanding of a place of eternal punishment for the unrighteous. The full article is much longer. Scripture references are highlighted in blue.

Jewish Encyclopedia, GEHENNA
by : Kaufmann Kohler Ludwig Blau

The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a); [Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT the bias of Christian translators.] according to Gen. R. ix. 9, the words "very good" in Gen. i. 31 refer to hell; hence the latter must have been created on the sixth day.

The "fiery furnace" that Abraham saw (Gen. xv. 17, Hebr.) was Gehenna (Mek. xx. 18b, 71b; comp. Enoch, xcviii. 3, ciii. 8; Matt. xiii. 42, 50; 'Er. 19a, where the "fiery furnace" is also identified with the gate of Gehenna). Opinions also vary as to the situation, extent, and nature of hell. The statement that Gehenna is situated in the valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem, in the "accursed valley" (Enoch, xxvii. 1 et seq.), means simply that it has a gate there. It was in Zion, and had a gate in Jerusalem (Isa. xxxi. 9). It had three gates, one in the wilderness, one in the sea, and one in Jerusalem ('Er. 19a). The gate lies between two palm-trees in the valley of Hinnom, from which smoke is continually rising (ib.).

Because of the extent of Gehenna the sun, on setting in the evening, passes by it, and receives from it its own fire (evening glow; B. B. 84a). A fiery stream ("dinur") falls upon the head of the sinner in Gehenna (hag. 13b).

There is a smell of sulfur in Gehenna (Enoch, lxvii. 6). This agrees with the Greek idea of hell (Lucian, Αληθεις Ιστοριαι, i. 29, in Dietrich, "Abraxas," p. 36). The sulfurous smell of the Tiberian medicinal springs was ascribed to their connection with Gehenna. In Isa. lxvi. 16, 24 it is said that God judges by means of fire.

Gehenna is dark in spite of the immense masses of fire; it is like night (Yeb. 109b; comp. Job x. 22). The same idea also occurs in Enoch, x. 4, lxxxii. 2; Matt. viii. 12, xxii. 13, xxv. 30 (comp. Schwally, l.c. p. 176).

It is assumed that there is an angel-prince in charge of Gehenna. He says to God: "Put everything into my sea; nourish me with the seed of Seth; I am hungry." But God refuses his request, telling him to take the heathen peoples (Shab. 104). God says to the angel-prince: "I punish the slanderers from above, and I also punish them from below with glowing coals" ('Ar. 15b).

Judgment.

It is assumed in general that sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b). To every individual is apportioned two shares, one in hell and one in paradise. At death, however, the righteous man's portion in hell is exchanged, so that he has two in heaven, while the reverse is true in the case of sinners (hag. 15a). Hence it would have been better for the latter not to have lived at all (Yeb. 63b).

They are cast into Gehenna to a depth commensurate with their sinfulness. They say: "Lord of the world, Thou hast done well; Paradise for the pious, Gehenna for the wicked" ('Er. 19a). There are three categories of men; the wholly pious and the arch-sinners are not purified, but only those between these two classes (Ab. R. N. 41). A similar view is expressed in the Babylonian Talmud, which adds that those who have sinned themselves but have not led others into sin remain for twelve months in Gehenna; "after twelve months their bodies are destroyed, their souls are burned, and the wind strews the ashes under the feet of the pious. But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).

As mentioned above, heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al.). " The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). (see image) Valley of Ge-Hinnom.(From a photograph by Bonfils.) The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b). Enoch also holds (xlviii. 9) that the sinners will disappear like chaff before the faces of the elect. There will be no Gehenna in the future world, however, for God will take the sun out of its case, and it will heal the pious with its rays and will punish the sinners (Ned. 8b).

Copyright 2002 JewishEncyclopedia.com. All rights reserved.

JewishEncyclopedia.com - GEHENNA
​

 

[Der Alte]

If anyone is interested, the following is William Barclay's article on AIONIOS - from his work, New Testament Words. It's lengthy, but I found it interesting.

We do well to search out the true meaning of the word aionios, for in the NT this is the word which is usually translated eternal or everlasting, and it is applied to the eternal life and the eternal glory, which are the Christian's highest reward, and to the eternal judgment and the eternal punishment, which must be the Christian's greatest dread.

Even in classical and in secular Greek aionios is a strange word, with a sense of mystery in it. Itself it is an adjective formed from the noun aion. In classical Greek this word aion has three main meanings.

(i) It means a life-time. Herodotus can speak of ending our aion (Herodotus, 1.32); Aeschylus, of depriving a man of his aion (Aeschylus, Prometheus 862); and Euripides of breathing away one's aion (Euripides, fragment 801).

(ii) Then it comes to mean an age, a generation, or an epoch. So the Greeks could speak of this present aion, and of the aion which is to come, this present age and the age which is to come.

(iii) But then the word comes to mean a very long space of time. The prepositional phrase ap'aionos means from of old; and di'aionos means perpetually and for ever. It is just here that the first mystery begins to enter in. In the papyri we read how at a public meeting the crowd shout `The Emperor eis ton aiona, The Emperor for ever.'

The adjective aionios becomes in Hellenistic Greek times the standing adjective to describe the Emperor's power. The royal power of Rome is a power which is to last for ever. And so, as Milligan well puts it, the word aionios comes to describe 'a state wherein the horizon is not in view'. Aionios becomes the word of far distances, the word of eternities, the word which transcends time.

But it was Plato who took this word aionios -- he may even have coined it -- and gave it its special mysterious meaning. To put it briefly, for Plato aionios is the word of eternity in contrast with time. Plato uses it, as it has been said, 'to denote that which has neither beginning nor end, and that is subject to neither change nor decay, that which is above time, but of which time is a moving image'.[ . . . ]

Much of this article is not historical, lexical, or grammatical evidence but merely Barclay stating an unsupported opinion. Here once again seventeen Greek language resources citing historical evidence listing the full definition of aionios.

Aion, Aionios and the lexicons:
166. αιωνιος aionios; from 165; agelong, eternal:— eternal(66), eternity(1), forever(1).

Thomas, Robert L., Th.D., General Editor, New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries,​

166 aionios- αιωνιος
1) without beginning and end, what has always been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting

---Thayers​

2. &#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#962; aionios [166] "describes duration, either undefined but not endless, as in <Rom. 16:25; 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 1:2>; or undefined because endless as in <Rom. 16:26>, and the other sixty-six places in the NT.

"The predominant meaning of aionios, that in which it is used everywhere in the NT, save the places noted above, may be seen in <2 Cor. 4:18>, where it is set in contrast with proskairos, lit., `for a season,' and in <Philem. 15>, where only in the NT it is used without a noun. Moreover it is used of persons and things which are in their nature endless, as, e. g., of God, <Rom. 16:26>; of His power, <1 Tim. 6:16>, and of His glory, <1 Pet. 5:10>; of the Holy Spirit, <Heb. 9:14>; of the redemption effected by Christ, <Heb. 9:12>, and of the consequent salvation of men, <5:9>, as well as of His future rule, <2 Pet. 1:11>, which is elsewhere declared to be without end, <Luke 1:33>; of the life received by those who believe in Christ, <John 3:16>, concerning whom He said, `they shall never perish,' <10:28>, and of the resurrection body, <2 Cor. 5:1>, elsewhere said to be `immortal,' <1 Cor. 15:53>, in which that life will be finally realized, <Matt. 25:46; Titus 1:2>.

"Aionios is also used of the sin that `hath never forgiveness,' <Mark 3:29>, and of the judgment of God, from which there is no appeal, <Heb. 6:2>, and of the fire, which is one of its instruments, <Matt. 18:8; 25:41; Jude 7>, and which is elsewhere said to be `unquenchable,' <Mark 9:43>.
"The use of aionios here shows that the punishment referred to in <2 Thes. 1:9>, is not temporary, but final, and, accordingly, the phraseology shows that its purpose is not remedial but retributive."

From Notes on Thessalonians, by Hogg and Vine, pp 232, 233. (from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words) (Copyright (C) 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers)​

67.96 &#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#962; aji>vdio", on; aijwvnio", on: pertaining to an unlimited duration of time - &#8216;eternal.&#8217;
aji>vdio"ò h{ te aji>vdio" aujtou` duvnami" kai; qeiovth" &#8216;his eternal power and divine nature&#8217; Ro 1.20.
aijwvnio"ò blhqh`nai eij" to; pu`r to; aijwvnion &#8216;be thrown into the eternal fire&#8217; Mt 18.8; tou` aijwnivou qeou` &#8216;of the eternal God&#8217; Ro 16.26.

The most frequent use of aijwvnio" in the NT is with zwhv &#8216;life,&#8217; for example, i{na pa`" oJ pisteuvwn ejn aujtw/` e[ch/ zwh;n aijwvnion &#8216;so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life&#8217; Jn 3.15. In combination with zwhv there is evidently not only a temporal element, but also a qualitative distinction. In such contexts, aijwvnio" evidently carries certain implications associated with aijwvnio" in relationship to divine and supernatural attributes. If one translates &#8216;eternal life&#8217; as simply &#8216;never dying,&#8217; there may be serious misunderstandings, since persons may assume that &#8216;never dying&#8217; refers only to physical existence rather than to &#8216;spiritual death.&#8217; Accordingly, some translators have rendered &#8216;eternal life&#8217; as &#8216;unending real life,&#8217; so as to introduce a qualitative distinction.

Louw, Johannes P. and Nida, Eugene A., Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament based on Semantic Domains, (New York: United Bible Societies) 1988, 1989.​

&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#962; aionios. An adjective meaning &#8220;eternal,&#8221; and found in the LXX in Pss. 24; 77:5; Gen. 21:33, aionios in the NT is used 1. of God (Rom. 16:26), 2. of divine possessions and gifts (2 Cor. 4:18; Heb. 9:14; 1 Pet. 5:10; 1 Tim. 6:16; 2 Th. 2:16, and 3. of the eternal kingdom (2 Pet. 1:11), inheritance (Heb. 9:15), body (2 Cor. 5:1), and even judgment (Heb. 6:2, though cf. Mt. 18:8; 2 Th. 1:9, where the sense is perhaps &#8220;unceasing&#8221;). For a more temporal use, see Rom. 16:25; Phlm. 15.

Kittel, Gerhard, and Friedrich, Gerhard, Editors, The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Abridged in One Volume, (Grand Rapids, Michigan: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company) 1985.​

&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#962; aionios ", ov and a, ov, lasting for an age (aion 3), Plat.: ever-lasting, eternal, Id.

Liddell, H. G., and Scott, Abridged Greek-English Lexicon, (Oxford: Oxford University Press) 1992.​

166 aionios { ahee-o&#8217;-nee-os} &#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#962;
from 165; TDNT - 1:208,31; adj
AV - eternal 42, everlasting 25, the world began + 5550 2, since the world began + 5550 1, for ever 1; 71
GK - 173 { aionios }
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting

Enhanced Strong&#8217;s Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1995.​

CL The Gk. word &#945;&#953;&#969;&#957; aion, which is probably derived from aei, always, is distinguished from its Indo-European parallels (Lat. aevum and Eng. aye are cognate) in that it is thought of not so much from the point of view of an abstract period of time as from the point of view of the time in which one has lived. In Hom. aion is often parallel with psyche, soul, life (e.g. Il. 16, 453); in Hesiod (Frag. 161, 1) it denotes a life-span, and in Aeschylus (Sept. 742) a generation. Thence it can mean the time which one has already lived or will live, i.e. it can relate to past as to future. It thus appeared appropriate to later philosophers to use the word both for the dim and distant past, the beginning of the world, and for the far future, eternity (e.g. Plato, Tim. 37d).​

 

[Der Alte]

Plato (Timoeus, ed. Steph. 3, 37, or ed. Baiter, Orell. et Winck. 712) says, speaking of the universe: "When the father who begot it* perceived that the image made by him of the eternal (aidion) gods moved and lived, he was delighted with his work; and, led by this delight, thought to make his work much more like that first exemplar." Inasmuch therefore as it (the intelligible universe) is an eternal (aidion) animal (living being), so he set about to make this (the sensible) universe such with all his power. The nature therefore of the animal (living being) was eternal (aionios, before aidios), and this indeed it was impossible to adapt to what was produced (to genneto, to what had a beginning); he thinks to make a moveable image of eternity (aionos), and in adoring the heavens he makes of the eternity permanent in unity a certain eternal image moving in number, that which in fact we call time; that is, days and nights, and months and years, which did not subsist before the heaven began to be, then with its being established he operates their birth" (beginning to be, genesin auton). And after unfolding this, he says (p. 38): "But these forms of time imitating eternity (aiona), and rolling round according to number, have had a beginning (gegonen).... Time therefore began with heaven. that they having begun with it may be dissolved with it, if there be indeed any dissolution of them, and according to the pattern of eternal (diaionias, in some MSS. aionion or -as) nature that it might be as like as possible to it. For that pattern exists for all eternity (panta aiona estin on), but on the other hand, that which is perpetual (dia telous) throughout all time has had a beginning, and is, and will be." And then he goes on to speak of stars and planets, etc., as connected with what was created in time. It is impossible to conceive any more positive statement that aion is distinct, and to be contrasted with what has a beginning and belongs to the flux of time. Aion is what is properly eternal, in contrast with a divine imitation of it in ages of time, the result of the creative action of God which imitated the uncreate as nearly as He could in created ages. It is a careful opposition between eternity and ages; and aion and also aionios mean the former in contrast with ages. ]

In Plato the term is developed so as to represent a timeless, immeasurable and transcendent super-time, an idea of time in itself. Plutarch and the earlier Stoics appropriate this understanding, and from it the Mysteries of Aion, the god of eternity, could be celebrated in Alexandria, and gnosticism could undertake its own speculations on time.
* * *

NIDNTT Colin Brown​

Aristotle peri ouranou, 1, 9 (ed. Bekker, 1, 279): "Time," he says, "is the number of movement, but there is no movement without a physical body. But outside heaven it has been shewn that there is not, nor possibly can come into existence, any body. It is evident then that there is neither place, nor void, nor time outside. Wherefore neither in place are things there formed by nature; nor does time cause them to grow old: neither is there any change of anything of those things which are arranged beyond the outermost orbit; but unchangeable, and subject to no influence, having the best and most independent life, they continue for all eternity (aiona). For this expression (name) has been divinely uttered by the ancients; for the completeness which embraces the time of the life of each, outside which there is nothing, according to nature, is called the aion of each. According to the same word (logon) the completeness of the whole heaven, and the completeness which embraces all time and infinitude is aion, having received this name from existing for ever (apo tou aei einai), immortal (athanatos, undying), and divine." In 10 he goes on to shew that that beginning to be (genesthai) involves the not existing always, which I refer to as shewing what he means by aion. He is proving the unchangeable eternity of the visible universe. That is no business of mine; but it shews what he means by eternity (aion). It cannot be aidion and genesthai at the same time, when, as in Plato, aidios is used as equivalent to aionios. Aristotle has not the abstract thoughts of Plato as to ideas, and the paradeigma of what is visible, the latter being a produced image of the eternal paradeigma. He rests more in what is known by the senses; and makes this the eternal thing in itself. But the force of aion for both is a settled point; and Aristotle's explanation of aion as used for finite things, I have long held to be the true one; that is, the completeness of a thing's existence, so that according to its natural existence there is nothing outside or beyond it. It periechei the whole being of the thing. 126

Philo, the sentence is in De Mundo, 7, en aioni de oute pareleluthen ouden, oute mellei, alla monon iphesteken. Such a definition needs no explanation: in eternity nothing is passed, nothing is about to be, but only subsists. This has the importance of being of the date and Hellenistic Greek of the New Testament, as the others give the regular, and at the same time philosophical force of the word, aion, aionios. Eternity, unchangeable, with no 'was' nor 'will be,' is its proper force, that it can be applied to the whole existence of a thing, so that nothing of its nature was before true or after is true, to telos to periechon. But its meaning is eternity, and eternal. To say that they do not mean it in Greek, as Jukes and Farrar and S. Cox, and those they quote, is a denial of the statements of the very best authorities we can have on the subject. If Plato and Aristotle and Philo knew Greek, what these others say is false. That this is the proper sense of aionios in Scripture, is as certain as it is evident. In 2 Corinthians 4: 18, we have ta gar blepomena proskaira, ta de me blepomena aionia. That is, things that are for a time are put in express contrast with aionia, which are not for a time, be it age or ages, but eternal. Nothing can be more decisive of its positive and specific meaning.

0166 aionios &#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#962; without beginning or end, eternal, everlasting
LEH lxx lexicon
UBS GNT Dict. # 169 (Str#166)
aionios eternal (of quality rather than of time); unending, everlasting, for all time
aijwvnio" (iva Pla., Tim. 38b; Jer 39:40; Ezk 37:26; 2 Th 2:16; Hb 9:12; as v.l. Ac 13:48; 2 Pt 1:11; Bl-D. §59, 2; Mlt.-H. 157), on eternal (since Hyperid. 6, 27; Pla.; inscr., pap., LXX; Ps.-Phoc. 112; Test. 12 Patr.; standing epithet for princely, esp. imperial power: Dit., Or. Index VIII; BGU 176; 303; 309; Sb 7517, 5 [211/2 ad] kuvrio" aij.; al. in pap.; Jos., Ant. 7, 352).
1. without beginning crovnoi" aij. long ages ago Ro 16:25; pro; crovnwn aij. before time began 2 Ti 1:9; Tit 1:2 (on crovno" aij. cf. Dit., Or. 248, 54; 383, 10).
2. without beginning or end; of God (Ps.-Pla., Tim. Locr. 96c qeo;n t. aijwvnion; Inscr. in the Brit. Mus. 894 aij. k. ajqavnato"; Gen 21:33; Is 26:4; 40:28; Bar 4:8 al.; Philo, Plant. 8; 74; Sib. Or., fgm. 3, 17 and 4; PGM 1, 309; 13, 280) Ro 16:26; of the Holy Spirit in Christ Hb 9:14. qrovno" aij. 1 Cl 65:2 (cf. 1 Macc 2:57).
3. without end (Diod. S. 1, 1, 5; 5, 73, 1; 15, 66, 1 dovxa aij. everlasting fame; in Diod. S. 1, 93, 1 the Egyptian dead are said to have passed to their aij. oi[khsi"; Arrian, Peripl. 1, 4 ej" mnhvmhn aij.; Jos., Bell. 4, 461 aij. cavri"=a gracious gift for all future time; Dit., Or. 383, 10 [I bc] eij" crovnon aij.; ECEOwen, oi\ko" aij.: JTS 38, &#8217;37, 248-50) of the next life skhnai; aij. Lk 16:9 (cf. En. 39, 5). oijkiva, contrasted w. the oijkiva ejpivgeio", of the glorified body 2 Cor 5:1. diaqhvkh (Gen 9:16; 17:7; Lev 24:8; 2 Km 23:5 al.) Hb 13:20. eujaggevlion Rv 14:6; kravto" in a doxolog. formula (=eij" tou;" aijw`na") 1 Ti 6:16. paravklhsi" 2 Th 2:16. luvtrwsi" Hb 9:12. klhronomiva (Esth 4:17m) vs. 15; aij. ajpevcein tinav (opp. pro;" w{ran) keep someone forever Phlm 15 (cf. Job 40:28). Very often of God&#8217;s judgment (Diod. S. 4, 63, 4 dia; th;n ajsevbeian ejn a{/dou diatelei`n timwriva" aijwnivou tugcavnonta; similarly 4, 69, 5; Jer 23:40; Da 12:2; Ps 76:6; 4 Macc 9:9; 13:15) kovlasi" aij. (Test. Reub. 5:5) Mt 25:46; 2 Cl 6:7; krivma aij. Hb 6:2; qavnato" B 20:1. o[leqron (4 Macc 10:15) 2 Th 1:9. pu`r (4 Macc 12:12.&#8212;Sib. Or. 8, 401 fw`" aij.) Mt 18:8; 25:41; Jd 7; Dg 10:7 (IQS 2, 8). aJnavrthma Mk 3:29 (v.l. krivsew" and aJmartiva"). On the other hand of eternal life (Maximus Tyr. 6, 1d qeou` zwh; aij.; Diod. S. 8, 15, 3 life meta; to;n qavnaton lasts eij" a{panta aijw`na; Da 12:2; 4 Macc 15:3; PsSol 3, 12; Philo, Fuga 78; Jos., Bell. 1, 650; Sib. Or. 2, 336) in the Kingdom of God: zwh; aij. Mt 19:16, 29; 25:46; Mk 10:17, 30; Lk 10:25; 18:18, 30; Ac 13:46, 48; Ro 2:7; 5:21 al.; J 3:15f, 36; 4:14, 36 al.; 1J 1:2; 2:25 al.&#8212;D 10:3; 2 Cl 5:5; 8:4, 6; IEph 18:1; Hv 2, 3, 2; 3, 8, 4 al. Also basileiva aij. 2 Pt 1:11 (cf. Da 4:3; 7:27; Philo, Somn. 2, 285; Dit., Or. 569, 24 uJpe;r th`" aijwnivou kai; ajfqavrtou basileiva" uJmw`n; Dssm. B 279f, BS 363). Of the glory in the next life dovxa aij. 2 Ti 2:10 (cf. Wsd 10:14; Jos., Ant. 15, 376.&#8212;Sib. Or. 8, 410). aijwvnion bavro" dovxh" 2 Cor 4:17; swthriva aij. (Is 45:17; Ps.-Clem., Hom. 1, 19) Hb 5:9; short ending of Mk. Of heavenly glory in contrast to the transitory world of the senses ta; mh; blepovmena aijwvnia 2 Cor 4:18.&#8212;carav IPhld inscr.; doxavzesqai aijwnivw/ e[rgw/ be glorified by an everlasting deed IPol 8:1. DHill, Gk. Words and Hebr. Mngs. &#8217;67, 186-201. M-M.

Bauer, Walter, Gingrich, F. Wilbur, and Danker, Frederick W., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, (Chicago: University of Chicago Press) 1979.​

BIBLE STUDY MANUALS - AIONIOS -- AN IN DEPTH STUDY

&#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;
&#8226; Strong's - Greek 165

&#8226; NRSV (the uses of the word in various contexts in the NRSV text):
again, age, course, end, eternal, forever, permanent, time, world, worlds

&#8226; CGED (A Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament, by Barclay M. Newman, New York: United Bible Societies, 1993, page 5):
age; world order; eternity (ap aion or pro aion, from the beginning; eis aion, and the strengthened form eis tous aion, ton aion, always, forever); Aeon (personified as an evil force); existence, the present life (Mt 13:22; Mk 4.19)

&#8226; The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology [NIDNTT], Volume 3 (edited by Colin Brown, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan, 1978, page 827, 830):
In Plato the term [aion] is developed so as to represent a timeless, immeasurable and transcendent super-time, an idea of time in itself. Plutarch and other earlier Stoics appropriate this understanding, and from it the Mysteries of Aion, the god of eternity, could be celebrated in Alexandria, and gnosticism could undertake its own speculations on time.

In Hellenistic philosophy the concept of aeons contributed towards a solution of the problem of the world-order. The aeons were assumed to be mediating powers which bridge the infinite qualitative distinction between God and the world. They are an emanation of the divine pleroma, the fullness of the divine Being&#8230;.

The statements of the Johannine [John, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John] writings, which cannot always be pinned down with absolute certainty of meaning.., Heb., where the meaning is quite clear .. and naturally those cases where aion is used in the plural, all reveal a strong inclination to conceive of a timeless, because post-temporal, eternity&#8230; As in the OT [Old Testament], these statements reveal the background conviction that God's life never ends, i.e. that everything belonging to him can also never come to an end&#8230;​

 

[Kal Perry]

If the noun form of Aion means a duration of time, with a beginning and with an end, then how can it's adjective form Aionios mean endless time?

If I said: I was going to ride my bike. Bike is a noun in this sentence, but if I said I was going to bike fest next month. then bike is an adjective.

In both of these sentences BIKE implies a two wheeled vehicular apparatis.

So, how could AION mean time in a duration, with a beginning and with an end and in it's adjective form, AIONIOS, imply no time in a duration or NO beginning or end?

I am unaware of any language spoken, that a word in it's noun form has a different meaning from it's adjective form. Furthermore this is not just a little different meaning of these two words, they are polar opposites. One word implies time and the other word implies the absence of time?

 

[Der Alte]

If the noun form of Aion means a duration of time, with a beginning and with an end, then how can it's adjective form Aionios mean endless time?

If I said: I was going to ride my bike. Bike is a noun in this sentence, but if I said I was going to bike fest next month. then bike is an adjective.

In both of these sentences BIKE implies a two wheeled vehicular apparatis.

So, how could AION mean time in a duration, with a beginning and with an end and in it's adjective form, AIONIOS, imply no time in a duration or NO beginning or end?

I am unaware of any language spoken, that a word in it's noun form has a different meaning from it's adjective form. Furthermore this is not just a little different meaning of these two words, they are polar opposites. One word implies time and the other word implies the absence of time?

Guess you just want to argue! Evidently that is just an argument you have read somewhere. I don't know of anyone who actually knows Greek who makes this argument. I have cited seventeen (17) renowned Greek language resources including a few classical Greek writers, Philo, Plato, Aristotle, from before the Christian era, all of them agree that aionios has always included the meaning eternal, forever, unending, etc. and support their positions with citations from ancient Greek texts. So I don't know what to tell you. The facts are aionios does in fact mean eternal, forever, unending, etc. and unfortunately that contradicts your assumptions/presuppositions.

 

[Kal Perry]

In the "Unauthorized" versions of the Bible especially the Concordant Literal New Testament and Young's Literal, they use the words Age Lasting or Age During, where this word Aionios is recorded in the Greek.

Since they consistently translate it as such, how are they in error if the word means everlasting or eternity? is their Greek interpretation incorrect?

 

[Der Alte]

In the "Unauthorized" versions of the Bible especially the Concordant Literal New Testament and Young's Literal, they use the words Age Lasting or Age During, where this word Aionios is recorded in the Greek.

Since they consistently translate it as such, how are they in error if the word means everlasting or eternity? is their Greek interpretation incorrect?

Both are single scholar translations and are not subject to any critique or review. OTOH I cited 17 Greek language resources. If someone wants to find a version which supports almost any view they can find it.

 

[2ducklow]

In the "Unauthorized" versions of the Bible especially the Concordant Literal New Testament and Young's Literal, they use the words Age Lasting or Age During, where this word Aionios is recorded in the Greek.

Since they consistently translate it as such, how are they in error if the word means everlasting or eternity? is their Greek interpretation incorrect?

I read somewhere that that was how the Greeks expressed the idea of eternity because ages of ages was the longest period of time they could think of. But think about it, ages of ages isn't a specific number of ages, it's just ages plural. Plus to argue that well one only has to go to the lake of fire for ages of ages which works out to only 10 zillion years times ten zillion,, so don't worry about it cause that's not like it's eternal time in the lake of fire, isn'ta very persuasive arguement, in my book anyway.

(Rotherham) Revelation 20:10 and, the Adversary that had been deceiving them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [were] both the wild-beast and the false-prophet; and they shall be tormented, day and night, unto the ages of ages.


So how many ages of ages? 10, 10,000, 20 zillion? how many? It's left undefined so in effect it functions as eternity since no specific number of ages is given. And how many ages ? same thing.

 

[Kal Perry]

2duck

Then is not the real question what is an Age? and how long is an Age?
Even 10 zillion years is the equivalent of zero amont of time in regards to infinity, everlasting, eternal or forever?

 

[2ducklow]

2duck

Then is not the real question what is an Age? and how long is an Age?

No. Because the verse says "ages of ages". So the real question is how long is 'ages of ages". The answer is 'it's an indescribeably long time." If you wanted to state an indescribably long time or state eternity in other words what would you say" Answer "Ages of ages."

Even 10 zillion years is the equivalent of zero amont of time in regards to infinity, everlasting, eternal or forever?

Zero amount of time in regards to eternity, but the equivalent of eternity for us humans. Ages of ages was written for us not god. anybody about to be thrown in the lake of fire and they are told it's for ages of ages, isn't going to care if ages of ages ever ends or not. I mean really "Oh whew, I'm only gonna burn in the lake of fire for 10zillion years times ten zillion, I can handle that."

 

[Der Alte]

I read somewhere that that was how the Greeks expressed the idea of eternity because ages of ages was the longest period of time they could think of. But think about it, ages of ages isn't a specific number of ages, it's just ages plural. Plus to argue that well one only has to go to the lake of fire for ages of ages which works out to only 10 zillion years times ten zillion,, so don't worry about it cause that's not like it's eternal time in the lake of fire, isn'ta very persuasive arguement, in my book anyway.

(Rotherham) Revelation 20:10 and, the Adversary that had been deceiving them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [were] both the wild-beast and the false-prophet; and they shall be tormented, day and night, unto the ages of ages.


So how many ages of ages? 10, 10,000, 20 zillion? how many? It's left undefined so in effect it functions as eternity since no specific number of ages is given. And how many ages ? same thing.

Universalists' present the argument, "How can &#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#962; have a plural?" I have explained this many times before but it was ignored. I think because none of the universalists really want an answer. Well here is the answer, they can like it or not, or ignore it like most of my posts have been ignored.

Epizeuksis, reduplication of words for emphasis, in the Bible..

Isaiah 40:1, “Comfort, comfort my people…”

Matt 23:37, “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those
who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the
way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.”
When our Lord says in Matthew 27:46, “My God, My God, why have you
forsaken Me”

Gen. 9:25, “So he said, ‘Cursed be Canaan; A servant of servants He shall be to his
brothers.’”—“i.e., the lowest and most degraded of servants, or the most abject slave.”
Bullinger. Observe, “servant”(singular) “of servants” (genitive plural).
Deu. 10:17, “For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the LORD of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality, nor take a bribe.”—i.e., He is the greatest God, the incomparable Lord … there is none like Him!

Ecc. 1:2, “’Vanity of vanities,’ says the Preacher, ‘Vanity of vanities! All is vanity.’”—i.e., Life “under the sun” (v. 3) is ultimate futility, like “striving after wind”
(v. 14)! This is the theme of this book. People spend their entire life investing in this life, yet when all is said and done there is no “advantage” or “profit” (1:3)—he will take nothing with him! In contrast, Jesus encourages men to “seek for His kingdom” and
thereby to lay up “an unfailing treasure in heaven.” Lk. 12:31,33.
Exod. 26:33, “And you shall … bring in the ark of the testimony there within the veil; and the veil shall serve for you as a partition between the holy place and the holy of holies.”—i.e., the “most holy place” (1 Ki. 8:6), which represented coming into the very presence of the “God of gods and Lord of lords,” who is, “Holy, Holy, Holy” (Isa.
6:3)—holy to the very highest degree! (another figure involving repetition of words—epizeuxis, or duplication, Bullinger, pp. 189,194).

Song of Solomon 1:1, “The Song of Songs, which is Solomon’s.”—i.e., the “Best of the Songs” (NASB marginal note), or, the most excellent and beautiful song.

Php. 3:5, “circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee”—i.e. a Hebrew to the superlative degree enjoying every advantage such could give. But, Paul said, “whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ”!

Crucify, Luke 23:21; Doctor, Luke 8:24; Eloi, Matt. 27:46, Mark 15:34; how very (See as much as), Heb. 10:37; Jerusalem, Matt. 23:37, Luke 13:34; Lord, Mat 7:21, 22, 25:11, Luke 6:46, 13:25; Martha, Luke 10:41; no, Matt. 5:37, 2 Cor. 1:17; Rabbi, Mark 14:45; Saul, Acts 9:4; Simon, Luke 22:31; verily, John 1:51, 3:3, 5, 11, 5:19, 24, 25, 6:26, 32, 47, 53, 8:34, 51, 58, 10:1, 7, 12:24, 13:16, 20, 21, 38, 16:20, 23, 21:18; yes, Matt. 5:37, 2 Cor. 1:17, James 5:12.

More Epizeuksi, reduplication of words for emphasis in the Bible.

Cf. "Ezek. 21:27.—'I will overturn, overturn, overturn it; and it shall be no more until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him”: i.e., I will completely and thoroughly overturn it.'

Figures of Speech Used in The Bible by E.W. Bullinger Page(s) 189 See at Silva Rhetoricae (rhetoric.byu.edu)

The repetition of the same word in the same sense. When the word is repeated in close and immediate succession, no other word or words coming between, it is called Geminatio , a doubling, duplication, a re-doubling . It is also called Iteratio, iteration; Conduplicatio, conduplication , or full doubling .

When the words do not immediately succeed each other, but are separated by one or more intervening words, the figure is then called Epizeuxis.

It is a common and powerful way of emphasizing a particular word, by thus marking it and calling attention to it.

In writing, one might accomplish this by putting the word in larger letters, or by underlining it two or three times. In speaking, it is easy to mark it by expressing it with increased emphasis or vehemence.

Bullinger's examples:
Gen. 6:17 . —“And, behold, I, even, I , do bring a flood of waters upon the earth.”

Gen. 7:19 . —“And the waters prevailed exceedingly.”
Here, as in other passages, the doubled adverb is used for a superlative. &#1502;&#1456;&#1488;&#1465;&#1491; &#1502;&#1456;&#1488;&#1465;&#1491; ( me&#333;d , me&#333;d ), greatly, greatly . We have the same words in 17:2 , “And I will multiply thee exceedingly ( me&#333;d , me&#333;d ). So also verse 6 , exceeding ; and verse 20 , exceedingly ; 30:43 , “And the man increased exceedingly ( me&#333;d , me&#333;d )”; Ex. 1:7 , “ Waxed exceeding ”; Num. 14:7 , “It is an exceeding ( me&#333;d , me&#333;d ) good land”; 1 Kings 7:47 , “Because they were exceeding ( me&#333;d , me&#333;d ) many”; 2 Kings 10:4 , “But they were exceedingly ( me&#333;d , me&#333;d ) afraid”; Ezek. 9:9 , “And Judah is exceeding ( me&#333;d , me&#333;d ) great”; 16:13 , “And thou wast exceeding ( me&#333;d , me&#333;d ) beautiful”; 37:10 , “An exceeding ( me&#333;d , me&#333;d ) great army.”

Gen. 22:11 . —“And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham .”

This is the first occurrence of this figure, used of names. There are ten such in the Scriptures (the number ten completing the cycle of Divine order). *

Seven of these are used by God to man (four of which are in the Old Testament, and three in the New), the other three being used under other circumstances. When thus used, the figure calls special attention to the occasion or to the person, and to some solemn moment of importance in the action, or of significance in the words.
Used by God to men. (7)
Old Test. (4)
1. Abraham, Abraham ( Gen. 22:11 ).
2. Jacob, Jacob ( Gen. 46:2 ).
3. Moses, Moses ( Ex. 3:4 ).
4. Samuel, Samuel ( 1 Sam. 3:10 ).
New Test. (3)
5. Martha, Martha ( Luke 10:41 ).
6. Simon, Simon † ( Luke 22:31 ).
7. Saul, Saul ( Acts 9:4 ).
Used under other circumstances. ‡ (3)
8. Lord, Lord ( Matt. 7:21 , 22 . Luke 6:46 ; 13:25 ).
9. Jerusalem, Jerusalem ( Matt. 23:37 . Luke 13:34 ).
10. Eloi, Eloi ( Mark 15:34 . Matt. 27:46 . Ps. 22:1 ).

It is to be noted that in raising the dead the Lord Jesus never used this figure! As much as to say it needed no emphasis whatever to make the dead hear His voice (see Mark 5:41 ). The disciples may cry, “ Master, Master , we perish!” ( Luke 8:24 ), but He calmly rebukes the winds and the waves.

Gen. 25:30 . —“And Esau said to Jacob, “Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage .”

The Hebrew having no superlative, doubles the adjective (see under Idiom ), &#1492;&#1464;&#1488;&#1464;&#1491;&#1465;&#1501; &#1492;&#1459;&#1488;&#1464;&#1491;&#1465;&#1501; ( hah-ahdom, hah-ahdom ), red, red , i.e. , this very red [ food ]; or, this deliciously red food .

Ex. 2:12 . —“And he looked this way and that way.”
Here the Hebrew &#1499;&#1468;&#1465;&#1492; &#1493;&#1464;&#1499;&#1465;&#1492; ( k&#333;h vahk&#333;h ), this and this , is well translated, The repetition emphasizes the fact that he looked in every direction. See also Josh. 8:20 , i.e. , in any direction. 2 Kings 2:8 . Also Josh. 8:33 , &#1502;&#1460;&#1494;&#1468;&#1462;&#1492; &#1493;&#1468;&#1502;&#1460;&#1494;&#1468;&#1462;&#1492; ( mizzeh oomizzeh ), i.e. , on all sides. 1 Kings 2:36 , “Go not forth thence any-whither” &#1488;&#1464;&#1504;&#1462;&#1492; &#1493;&#1464;&#1488;&#1464;&#1504;&#1464;&#1492; ( ahneh vah-ah-nah ), this and this . 2 Kings 4:35 , see margin.

Ex. 4:16 . —“And he shall be , even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth:” i.e. , he shall surely be, etc.

Ex. 15:16 . —“ Till thy people pass over , O LORD , till the people pass over , which thou hast purchased:” i.e. , till thy people have completely passed over and are safe on the other side.

Ex. 23:30 . —“By little and little I will drive them out from before thee,” &#1502;&#1456;&#1506;&#1463;&#1496; &#1502;&#1456;&#1506;&#1463;&#1496; ( me-at, me-at ), “ little, little , I will drive, etc.:” i.e. , I will drive them out by very slow degrees. There s no “by” or “and” in the Hebrew of this passage. These words should be in italics. The figure is beautifully rendered in English idiom, where two adverbs are used to express the superlative.

Ex. 28:34 . —“A golden bell and a pomegranate, a golden bell and a pomegranate upon the hem of the robe round about:” i.e. , alternately.

Ex. 34:6 . —“And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH .”

Here, if we were to translate the figure idiomatically, it means that He proclaimed the wonderful name, Jehovah! (which He did in the sixth and seventh verses).

Lev. 6:12 ( 5 ). —“And the priest shall burn wood on it every morning.” &#1489;&#1468;&#1463;&#1489;&#1468;&#1465;&#1511;&#1462;&#1512; &#1489;&#1468;&#1463;&#1489;&#1468;&#1465;&#1511;&#1462;&#1512; ( babb&#333;ker, babb&#333;ker ), morning, morning : i.e. , every morning, regularly, and without intermission.

Lev 24:8 . —“Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually.”
Hebrew &#1489;&#1468;&#1462;&#1497;&#1493;&#1465;&#1501; &#1492;&#1463;&#1513;&#1468;&#1463;&#1473;&#1489;&#1468;&#1464;&#1514; &#1489;&#1468;&#1456;&#1497;&#1493;&#1465;&#1501; &#1492;&#1463;&#1513;&#1468;&#1463;&#1473;&#1489;&#1468;&#1464;&#1514; ( Bey&#333;m hashabbath beyom hashabbath ), on-the-day-of the-Sabbath, on-the-day-of the-Sabbath : i.e. , every Sabbath, with emphasis on the word “every,” i.e. , every Sabbath without fail.

 

[Der Alte]

Num. 17:12 , 13 ( 27 , 28 ). —After Aaron’s rod had been brought forth, the people were frightened and cried to Moses, “Behold, we die, we perish, we all perish. Whosoever cometh near, cometh near unto the tabernacle of the LORD shall die: shall we be consumed with dying?”

Here the figure is &#1492;&#1463;&#1511;&#1468;&#1464;&#1512;&#1461;&#1489; &#1492;&#1463;&#1511;&#1468;&#1464;&#1512;&#1461;&#1489; ( hakkahrev hakkahrev ), cometh near, cometh near . It is idiomatically translated by the A.V. , but literally by the R.V.

There is also the repetition of the word &#1488;&#1464;&#1489;&#1464;&#1491;&#1456;&#1504;&#1493;&#1468; ( ahvadnoo ), “we perish, we all perish.”
Deut. 28:43 . —Here the figure is really translated idiomatically, and not literally. “The stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high,” i.e. , &#1502;&#1463;&#1506;&#1458;&#1500;&#1464;&#1492; &#1502;&#1468;&#1464;&#1506;&#1458;&#1500;&#1464;&#1492; ( mahalah, mahalah ), high, high ; “and thou shalt come down very low” ( i.e. , &#1502;&#1463;&#1496;&#1468;&#1464;&#1492; &#1502;&#1468;&#1464;&#1496;&#1468;&#1464;&#1492; ( mattah, mattah ), low, low ).

Thus the figure emphasizes the depth of the misery into which Israel should be brought if they would not hearken to the voice of Jehovah (verse 15 ).

Judges 5:22 . —
“Then did the horsehoofs stamp:
By reason of the pransings, the pransings of his mighty ones.”
&#1502;&#1460;&#1491;&#1468;&#1463;&#1492;&#1458;&#1512;&#1493;&#1465;&#1514; &#1491;&#1463;&#1492;&#1458;&#1512;&#1493;&#1465;&#1514; ( middaharoth daharoth ), i.e. , the violent pransings, if translated idiomatically. See under Idiom .

1 Sam. 2:3 . —“Talk no more exceeding proudly.”
&#1490;&#1468;&#1456;&#1489;&#1465;&#1492;&#1464;&#1492; &#1490;&#1468;&#1456;&#1489;&#1465;&#1492;&#1464;&#1492; ( gevohah, gevohah ), proudly, proudly , i.e. , arrogantly or haughtily.
Here the repeated adjective is idiomatically translated as a superlative.

2 Sam. 7:5 . —“Go and tell my servant David (Heb., to my servant, to David), Thus saith the LORD , Shalt thou build, me a house for me to dwell in?”

Here there is great emphasis to be placed on the repeated pronoun, “me,” in order to rebuke the popular and universal thought of the natural heart, which ever says, “See now, I dwell in a house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains.”

2 Sam. 18:33 . —“O my son Absalom, my son, my son Absalom! Would God I had died for thee, O Absalom, my son, my son! ”

Here the figure emphasizes the vehemence of David’s grief.

2 Kings 4:19 . —“And he said unto his father, My head, my head. ” ( &#1512;&#1465;&#1488;&#1513;&#1460;&#1473;&#1497; &#1512;&#1465;&#1488;&#1513;&#1460;&#1473;&#1497; , roshee, roshee .)

How eloquent: and what a volume is contained in this simple figure, so naturally used by the child; as an English child would say, “My poor head.”

2 Chron. 4:3 . —“Compassing the sea round about.” &#1505;&#1464;&#1489;&#1460;&#1497;&#1489; &#1505;&#1464;&#1489;&#1460;&#1497;&#1489; ( sahveev, sahveev ), around, around: i.e. , completely round, all around. The same repetition is used, to express complete surrounding, in Ezek. 37:2 ; 40:5 , 14 , 16 (twice), 17 , 25 , 29 , 30 , 33 , 36 , 43 ; 41:5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 16 (the second “round about”), 17 , 19 ; 42:15 , 20 ; 43:12 . In all these descriptions of the new and future Temple, the repetition of &#1505;&#1464;&#1489;&#1460;&#1497;&#1489; &#1505;&#1464;&#1489;&#1460;&#1497;&#1489; ( sahveev, sahveev ) emphasizes the completeness of the measurements.

Ps. 22:1 . —“ My God, my God ( &#1488;&#1461;&#1500;&#1460;&#1497; &#1488;&#1461;&#1500;&#1460;&#1497; , Elee, Elee ), why hast thou forsaken me?”
Who can tell the depth of meaning and of feeling, which this figure here reveals? It is thus impressed upon us, because it cannot be expressed by words. See Mark 15:34 .
Ps. 67:6 , 7 ( 7 , 8 ). —
“ God shall bless us , God shall bless us :”

i.e. , God shall really and truly bless us in very deed.

Ps. 77:16 ( 17 ). —
“ The waters saw thee , O God, The waters saw thee. ”

(See under Prosopopœia .) Thus emphatically describing Ex. 14

Ps. 96:13 . —
“ For He cometh, for He cometh :”
i.e. , for He shall surely come.

Ps. 118:11 . —Twice “ They compassed me about ”; and in verses 15 and 16 , we have three times “ The right hand of the Lord. ”

Ps. 137:7 . —“Remember, O LORD , the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Rase it , rase it, even to the foundation thereof,” i.e. , &#1506;&#1464;&#1512;&#1493;&#1468; &#1506;&#1464;&#1512;&#1493;&#1468; ( ahroo, ahroo ), “Down-with-it, down-with-it,” or we might render the figure, utterly overthrow it .

Prov. 20:14 . —“ It is naught , it is naught , saith the buyer: but when he is gone his way, then he boasteth.”
Heb. is &#1512;&#1463;&#1506; &#1512;&#1463;&#1506; ( ra, ra ), i.e. , “very bad,” or “worth nothing.” What a picture of Eastern bargaining!

Ecc. 3:18 . —Lit., I said in my heart respecting the estate of the sons of men that … they , even they are like beasts.”

Here the figure of Pleonasm ( q.v. ) first emphasizes the word “men,” and then the Epizeuxis again increases that emphasis.

Ecc. 7:24 . —“That which is far off and exceeding deep, who can find it out?” &#1506;&#1464;&#1502;&#1465;&#1511; &#1506;&#1464;&#1502;&#1465;&#1511; ( ahmok, ahmok ), deep, deep : i.e. , as it is translated, “exceeding deep.”

Isa. 6:3 . —The holiness of Jehovah is emphasized beyond measure, and the three persons in one God are indicated by the thrice repeated “ Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts.” Here the highest degree of holiness is ascribed to Jehovah.

Isa. 21:9 . —“Babylon is fallen, is fallen ”: to emphasize the certainty and the greatness of the fall of that great city, and the completeness of its final overthrow. See also Rev. 18:2 .

Isa. 26:3 . —“Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace.”

Here the figure is idiomatically translated . The Hebrew reads (see margin) &#1513;&#1464;&#1473;&#1500;&#1493;&#1465;&#1501; &#1513;&#1464;&#1473;&#1500;&#1493;&#1465;&#1501; ( shalom, shalom ), peace, peace , thus emphasizing the word and denoting much peace, great peace; or, as in A.V. , “perfect peace.” In 57:19 and Jer. 6:14 it is not thus translated.
Professor Driver mentions this duplication of words as being a post-Isaian feature of literary style ( Introduction to the Literature of the Old Testament , pp. 233, 234). He says, “The literary style of chapters 40–56 is very different from that of Isaiah”: one of the “literary features” being the repetition of words. It is remarkable, as being characteristic of the wisdom and acumen assumed by the higher critics, that though Professor Driver mentions the repetition of &#1513;&#1500;&#1493;&#1501; &#1513;&#1500;&#1493;&#1501; , peace, peace , in Isa. 57:19 , he does not mention the very same repetition in 26:3 : which is an evidence of the very unity of the two parts of Isaiah which he is seeking to disprove. *

Isa. 28:10 . —This is probably the ironical language of the “scornful men” (verse 14 ), introduced by the Ellipsis of verse 9 : “Whom [ say they ] shall he teach knowledge?… for [ it is ] precept upon precept; precept upon precept; line upon line; line upon line; here a little , and there a little. ” And, then, the Prophet retorts: “For (or Yea, verily) with stammering lips ( marg. , stammerings of lips ) and another tongue will he speak ( marg. , he hath spoken ) to this people.”

In the English the Epizeuxis is not perfect, because the word “upon” comes between, but in the Hebrew the words follow each other closely.

&#1510;&#1468;&#1463;&#1493; &#1500;&#1464;&#1510;&#1464;&#1493; &#1510;&#1463;&#1493; &#1500;&#1464;&#1510;&#1464;&#1493; &#1511;&#1464;&#1493; &#1500;&#1464;&#1511;&#1463;&#1493;&#1463; &#1511;&#1463;&#1493; &#1500;&#1464;&#1511;&#1464;&#1493;
&#1494;&#1456;&#1506;&#1461;&#1497;&#1512; &#1513;&#1464;&#1473;&#1501; &#1494;&#1456;&#1506;&#1461;&#1497;&#1512; &#1513;&#1464;&#1473;&#1501;

i.e. , “For it is tzav latzav; tzav latzav; kav lakav, kav lakav; z&#275;hr sh&#257;hm, z&#275;hr sh&#257;hm .”
See also verse 13 .

Isa. 40:1 . —“ Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.” Here the Epizeuxis consists of one word in the Hebrew, &#1504;&#1463;&#1495;&#1458;&#1502;&#1493;&#1468; &#1504;&#1463;&#1495;&#1458;&#1502;&#1493;&#1468; ( nachmoo, nachmoo ): and calls our attention to the passage; while it emphasizes the plenitude of that comfort wherewith Jehovah has determined to comfort His People Israel at no distant date.

Isa. 51 . —In this Scripture we have three calls emphasized by this figure.
A 1 51:9–11 . A call to the arm of Jehovah:—“ Awake, awake , put on strength, O arm of the LORD .”
B 1 12–16 . Followed by comfort.
A 2 17–20 . A call to Jerusalem:—“ Awake, awake , stand up, O Jerusalem.”
B 2 21–23 . Followed by comfort.
A 3 52:1 , 2 . A call to Zion:—“ Awake, awake , put on strength, O Zion.”
B 3 3–12 . Followed by comfort.

Isa. 57:19 . —“I create the fruit of the lips:— Peace, peace to him that is far off and to him that is near,” etc.: i.e. , great peace, perfect peace as in 26:3 ( q.v. ).

Jer. 4:19 . —“ My bowels, my bowels! ” to emphasize the great distress experienced.
Jer. 6:14 . —“They have healed also the hurt of the daughter * of my people slightly, saying Peace, peace ; when there is no peace.” Here the figure contrasts with the fact that there was no peace for Jerusalem the fact that her false prophets continually promised plenty of peace, much peace.

Jer. 22:29 . —“O earth, earth, earth , hear the word of the LORD .”

Ezek. 21:9–13 ( Heb. 14–18 ). —“ A sword, a sword is sharpened, and also furbished.”
This is to call our attention to “the sword of the LORD ,” viz. , Babylon, and to show that His sword is a sword for war , and not a sword worn for honour . This is the key to this difficult passage. That there are difficulties is seen the moment we observe the italics, note the marginal alternatives, and consult the commentators!

Jehovah’s sword was not like the sword of His son Judah, not like his “rod” or “sceptre” (verse 10 ), which was merely for honour, and was no use against a tree. But this sword (verse 10 ) “contemneth the rod (or sceptre) of my son, as [ it despiseth ] every tree (or wood).” Verse 12 should be, “Cry and howl, son of man: for it shall be upon my people, it shall be upon all the princes of Israel: my people shall be delivered to the sword: smite therefore upon thy thigh” (which was the symbol of fear in man, as beating the breast was in woman). Verse 13 . “Because it was proved, and what? ( i.e., what will happen? what will be the result? ) if the sword shall not despise the wood, saith the Lord! It will not be, saith Adonai Jehovah!” ( i.e. , it will not despise it! it will destroy it!)
Thus we have the sword of Jehovah emphasized: and the structure of these verses explains their meaning.
A 8–10 . The sword of Jehovah (Babylon). Its sharpness and brightness.
B – 10 . Its contempt for the rod or sceptre of His son Judah.
A 11 , 12 . The sword of Jehovah. Its destroying power.
B 13 . Its contempt for the wooden rod or sceptre of Judah.
The point is that the sword of the Lord is a sword of war, not of honour; and its power is so great that the sceptre of Judah (which was of wood ) will not withstand it.

Ezek. 21:27 . —“I will overturn, overturn, overturn it; and it shall be no more until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him”: i.e. , I will completely and thoroughly overturn it.

The threefold Epizeuxis emphasizes the completeness of the overthrow of the throne of David; hence, by implication, the certainty of the promised fulfilment of the prophecy that He who is David’s Son and David’s Lord, shall surely reign upon that same throne according to Luke 1:32 , 33 , and many other Scriptures.

Ezek. 22:2 . —“ Wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge? ”: i.e. , Wilt thou really and truly judge? See under Heterosis .

Ezek. 33:11 . —“ Turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways.”

Ezek. 34:11 . —“Behold, I , even I , will both search my sheep and seek them out.”
And verse 20 : “Behold I , even, I , will judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle.”

Thus does Adonai Jehovah emphasize what He will do in consequence of the unfaithfulness of the shepherds, who fed not His flock, but fed themselves. (See under Ellipsis , page 114 ).

Ezek. 34:17 . —“I judge between cattle and cattle .” ( &#1513;&#1462;&#1474;&#1492; &#1500;&#1464;&#1513;&#1462;&#1474;&#1492; .)
For the emphasis in this passage, see the notes on it under the figure of Ellipsis ( page 40 ).

Dan. 5:11 . —“Whom the king Nebuchadnezzar thy father, the king , I say , thy father , made master of the magicians”: i.e. , thy father the great and mighty king Nebuchadnezzar.

Dan. 10:19 . —“ Be strong , yea, be strong :” i.e. , be very strong.

Zeph. 1:14 . —“The great day of the LORD is near , is near , and hasteth greatly”: i.e. , is very near.

Matt. 5:37 . —“But let your communication ( R.V. , speech) be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay : for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.”

Here the figure emphasizes the fact, not that we are forbidden to say , “Yea” or “nay” twice; but that we are merely to say, “Yes” or “no,” and not to indulge in vehement asseverations and oaths; “for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.”

Matt. 23:37 . —“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem , thou that killest the prophets,” etc.: emphasizing the pathetic appeal by the exceeding guilt of the city in killing the prophets of Jehovah.

Luke 23:21 . —“ Crucify him , crucify him,” emphasizing the vehemence of the cry, and the determination of the priest-led people.

John 1:51 . —“ Verily, verily , I say unto you.” &#945;&#956;&#942;&#957;, &#945;&#956;&#942;&#957; ( ameen ameen ). Twenty-five solemn sayings of the Lord Jesus are thus emphatically marked in John’s Gospel: viz. , 1:51 ; 3:3 , 5 , 11 ; 5:19 , 24 , 25 ; 6:26 , 32 , 47 , 53 ; 8:34 , 51 , 58 ; 10:1 , 7 ; 12:24 ; 13:16 , 20 , 21 , 38 ; 14:12 ; 16:20 , 23 ; 21:18 . It might prove a useful study to trace the sequence of truth in these successive statements.

Apart from the Repetition, which occurs only in the fourth Gospel, there is something to be learnt from the number of times the word occurs. *

Heb. 10:37 . —“Yet a little while,” Lit., how little, how little. ” Greek: &#949;&#964;&#953; &#947;&#945;&#961; &#956;&#953;&#954;&#961;&#959;&#957; &#959;&#963;&#959;&#957; &#959;&#963;&#959;&#957; ( eti gar mikron hoson hoson ).

Eph. 3:9 . —Lit. “And to enlighten all [ as to ] what [ is ] the dispensation of the Mystery which has been hidden away, away , from the ages in [or by] God.” Showing the completeness with which the secret was hidden in former times. Compare Rom. 16:25 , and Col. 1:26 .

 

[Der Alte]

2duck

Then is not the real question what is an Age? and how long is an Age?
Even 10 zillion years is the equivalent of zero amont of time in regards to infinity, everlasting, eternal or forever?

Right! Lets just ignore Thomas, Thayer, Vines, Louw-Nida, Kittel, Liddell, Strong's, Plato, NIDNTT, Aristotle, Philo, BAGD, NRSV, CGED, all the sources that I quoted before.

 

[Kal Perry]

Truly, Truly, I do not see how the duplication of words means anything other than expressly emphasing a point, no argument here! Greek writers used many such techniques using words as in a way that would be equivalent to our PUNCTUATION today, as they had no punctuation.

The reason I have a problem accepting AIONIOS as everlasting, eternal, or forever, is because this word, for whatever reason has been compromised and manipulated by man. I have read all comments on here, some of which I have printed out and saved, however I am not satisfied by the 17 Greek Scholars nor Barclay or the Unauthorized Bibles and especially not Plato and his little host of pagans, as to if anyone can be certain of this word AIONIOS.

We have produced a plethora of data here and for those of you that can say they know AIONIOS means eternal and everlasting, well AMEN to you!
I do not believe it means everlasting or eternal.

I believe that God is the God of the AGES. I believe that time only excist with in the AGES. I do not believe that eternity is "Of The Age" I do not know if I am absolutely right or wrong but I am convinced that there is more to this word aionios than just a simple answer.

It is also like our primitive understanding of Hell! I have know problem with an understanding of punishment for the wicked, perhaps even annihilation? but that is not what mainstream Christianity teaches! They teach that even people who never knew or heard of the name of Christ are dying and will perish in an everlasting pit of fire and torment of Hell. This is not the Jesus I know!

The book of Revelation depicts Christ as a LAMB, if he was really to be understood as this warrior crusader torturing the unbelievers liars thiefs etc in hell eternally, then why didn't John depict Him as the LION of the Tribe of Judah, Certainly a more worthy title for this function of Christ and just as valid, this would be much more easily understood? Have you ever seen a furocious LAMB? Of course not!

In the entire New Covenant you will have a hard time finding any real serious warnings/threats made by Jesus to anyone other than a JEW, and Christ talked plenty to the Gentiles.and yes he did seriously instruct them but not condemn or rebuke.

Furthermore in the Epistles of Paul, the writer and teacher to the Gentiles, not even one time writes a warning concerning eternal torture in hell! Some Christians love their Hell, it puts things in perspective for them. Love God or suffer Eternal Damnation in the fire pits of Hell.

Any Christian who worships God for fear of Hell has about as much love for God as a woman who is beaten into submission by her husband. Then you would say that you have made a FREEWILL choice to serve God, and i say that the last thing that is FREE is your WILL. your WILL was only operating from a cause and effect mode. Yes, you had a CHOICE, you could choose YEA or NAY, but regardless you ARE being controled by the consequence, and that consequence you DO NOT control, it is God who controls the CONSEQUENCE. Your will is not free, only your choice is free, however their is a consequence for your choice, be it good or bad.

Bottom line I would not stand in the gap on this issue if mainstream Christianity did not dogmatically condemn almost all mankind to eternal Hell! Most Christians believe that ALL Jews are going to hell ALL Muslims and Buddist ALL Atheist ALL non believers and ALL who have never even heard of Christ not to mention that even MOST Christians won't get to Heaven either according to their own word!

I doubt this writing convinced ANY and I am sure you could write back all the scripture quotes in the N.T. indicating contrary to what I have written, and many of you are smarter than I, but I am a believer for more than forty years and I have read the Word of God through and complete many times.

I will admit I do not have all the answers, but I believe Christ, the Savior of the whole world, is NOT waiting in heaven until He can be unleashed on mankind with great fury to torture them eternally in hell. The logic that is applied here defies the True Christ, the God of Love and Compassion. The God of Grace and Mercy.

Maybe you can imagine this fury on the likes of HITLER or DHAMMER, but can you imagine this fury on a Jewish girl of age 17 whose Dad is a Rabbi and worships God. Can you imagine this fury on a person who never heard of Christ? Can you imagine this fury on a 15 year old Christian girl who commits suicide because she is terrified at school of being bullied by mean girls. Can you imagine this terror put onto the Indians, in America, as they were being raped and tortured to death by Columbus who declared Christianity as his faith. What of the Jews who died in the Holocaust at the hands of the admitted Christian Adolf Hitler?

Der Alter, I know that you dis-like it when I write like this, and certainly it is my subjective feelings that are my reasons, as you have said! But non theless it is what it is! I will quote Martin Luther in conclusion:

"There by the the Grace of God go I, I can do no other."

 

[Der Alte]

Truly, Truly, I do not see how the duplication of words means anything other than expressly emphasing a point, no argument here! Greek writers used many such techniques using words as in a way that would be equivalent to our PUNCTUATION today, as they had no punctuation.

I have explained this twice with clear evidence from scripture.

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.​

The reduplication of the word &#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#959;&#962;, in the phrase, &#949;&#953;&#962; &#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#945;&#962; &#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#969;&#957; in this, and other, verses is an example of epezeuxis. Repeating a word for emphasis. This passage emphasizes the eternal nature of the punishment. And in this particular vs. the eternal nature of the punishment is further emphasized by the addition of the words "and they have no rest day nor night." It is very clear that John intended to say that the punishment of this group is eternal, everlasting, unending.

The reason I have a problem accepting AIONIOS as everlasting, eternal, or forever, is because this word, for whatever reason has been compromised and manipulated by man.

This is a logical fallacy, begging the question. You have NOT presented any credible, verifiable, historical evidence that anything has been compromised. OTOH I have presented evidence from classical Greek long before the time of Christ showing that the word &#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#962; has always included the meaning eternal, everlasting, unending.

I have read all comments on here, some of which I have printed out and saved, however I am not satisfied by the 17 Greek Scholars nor Barclay or the Unauthorized Bibles and especially not Plato and his little host of pagans, as to if anyone can be certain of this word AIONIOS.

We have produced a plethora of data here and for those of you that can say they know AIONIOS means eternal and everlasting, well AMEN to you!
I do not believe it means everlasting or eternal.

I believe that God is the God of the AGES. I believe that time only excist with in the AGES. I do not believe that eternity is "Of The Age" I do not know if I am absolutely right or wrong but I am convinced that there is more to this word aionios than just a simple answer.

The problem with your "belief" is it relies on an etymological fallacy.

The etymological fallacy as a semantic error is the mistake of confusing the current meaning of a word with the meaning of one of its etymons, or of considering the meaning of the etymon to be the "real" or "true" meaning of the current word. If one's goal is to communicate, then the "real" or "true" meaning of a word is its current meaning. Since the meanings of words change over time, often considerably, the meaning of an etymon may be very different from the current meaning of the word derived from it. The fact that a word historically derives from an etymon may be interesting, but it cannot tell us the current meaning of the word.

Logical Fallacy: The Etymological Fallacy​

IOW you insist that &#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#962; can only mean age enduring or something similar, because its etymon &#945;&#953;&#969;&#957; means "age." Here are two examples from English which expose this fallacy. "Chairman" and "understand." The word "chairman" has nothing to do with a chair and can refer to a woman. And "understand" has nothing to do with standing under something.

It is also like our primitive understanding of Hell! I have know problem with an understanding of punishment for the wicked, perhaps even annihilation? but that is not what mainstream Christianity teaches! They teach that even people who never knew or heard of the name of Christ are dying and will perish in an everlasting pit of fire and torment of Hell. This is not the Jesus I know!

Your assumptions/presuppositions about what mainstream Christianity teaches about "people who never knew or heard of the name of Christ." is totally false.

The book of Revelation depicts Christ as a LAMB, if he was really to be understood as this warrior crusader torturing the unbelievers liars thiefs etc in hell eternally, then why didn't John depict Him as the LION of the Tribe of Judah, Certainly a more worthy title for this function of Christ and just as valid, this would be much more easily understood? Have you ever seen a furocious LAMB? Of course not!

Rev 19:11-16
(11) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
(12) His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
(13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
(14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
(15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
(16) And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.​

In the entire New Covenant you will have a hard time finding any real serious warnings/threats made by Jesus to anyone other than a JEW, and Christ talked plenty to the Gentiles.and yes he did seriously instruct them but not condemn or rebuke.

Furthermore in the Epistles of Paul, the writer and teacher to the Gentiles, not even one time writes a warning concerning eternal torture in hell! Some Christians love their Hell, it puts things in perspective for them. Love God or suffer Eternal Damnation in the fire pits of Hell.

A dastardly blatantly false condemnation of Christianity.

Any Christian who worships God for fear of Hell has about as much love for God as a woman who is beaten into submission by her husband. Then you would say that you have made a FREEWILL choice to serve God, and i say that the last thing that is FREE is your WILL. your WILL was only operating from a cause and effect mode. Yes, you had a CHOICE, you could choose YEA or NAY, but regardless you ARE being controled by the consequence, and that consequence you DO NOT control, it is God who controls the CONSEQUENCE. Your will is not free, only your choice is free, however their is a consequence for your choice, be it good or bad.

Bottom line I would not stand in the gap on this issue if mainstream Christianity did not dogmatically condemn almost all mankind to eternal Hell! Most Christians believe that ALL Jews are going to hell ALL Muslims and Buddist ALL Atheist ALL non believers and ALL who have never even heard of Christ not to mention that even MOST Christians won't get to Heaven either according to their own word!

I doubt this writing convinced ANY and I am sure you could write back all the scripture quotes in the N.T. indicating contrary to what I have written, and many of you are smarter than I, but I am a believer for more than forty years and I have read the Word of God through and complete many times.

I will admit I do not have all the answers, but I believe Christ, the Savior of the whole world, is NOT waiting in heaven until He can be unleashed on mankind with great fury to torture them eternally in hell. The logic that is applied here defies the True Christ, the God of Love and Compassion. The God of Grace and Mercy.

Maybe you can imagine this fury on the likes of HITLER or DHAMMER, but can you imagine this fury on a Jewish girl of age 17 whose Dad is a Rabbi and worships God. Can you imagine this fury on a person who never heard of Christ? Can you imagine this fury on a 15 year old Christian girl who commits suicide because she is terrified at school of being bullied by mean girls. Can you imagine this terror put onto the Indians, in America, as they were being raped and tortured to death by Columbus who declared Christianity as his faith. What of the Jews who died in the Holocaust at the hands of the admitted Christian Adolf Hitler?

Der Alter, I know that you dis-like it when I write like this, and certainly it is my subjective feelings that are my reasons, as you have said! But non theless it is what it is! I will quote Martin Luther in conclusion:

"There by the the Grace of God go I, I can do no other."

Most of this is nothing more than a rant against Christianity without any evidence. As long as you realize that you have basically rejected any and all evidence which proves you wrong and insist on retaining your beliefs based not on lexical, grammatical, or historical evidence but your own subjective assumptions/presuppositions.

Actually Martin Luther said, "Hier stehe ich, Ich kann nichts anders." Here I stand I can do no other.

 

[2ducklow]

Truly, Truly, I do not see how the duplication of words means anything other than expressly emphasing a point, no argument here! Greek writers used many such techniques using words as in a way that would be equivalent to our PUNCTUATION today, as they had no punctuation.

The reason I have a problem accepting AIONIOS as everlasting, eternal, or forever, is because this word, for whatever reason has been compromised and manipulated by man. I have read all comments on here, some of which I have printed out and saved, however I am not satisfied by the 17 Greek Scholars nor Barclay or the Unauthorized Bibles and especially not Plato and his little host of pagans, as to if anyone can be certain of this word AIONIOS.

We have produced a plethora of data here and for those of you that can say they know AIONIOS means eternal and everlasting, well AMEN to you!
I do not believe it means everlasting or eternal.

I believe that God is the God of the AGES. I believe that time only excist with in the AGES. I do not believe that eternity is "Of The Age" I do not know if I am absolutely right or wrong but I am convinced that there is more to this word aionios than just a simple answer.

It is also like our primitive understanding of Hell! I have know problem with an understanding of punishment for the wicked, perhaps even annihilation? but that is not what mainstream Christianity teaches! They teach that even people who never knew or heard of the name of Christ are dying and will perish in an everlasting pit of fire and torment of Hell. This is not the Jesus I know!

The book of Revelation depicts Christ as a LAMB, if he was really to be understood as this warrior crusader torturing the unbelievers liars thiefs etc in hell eternally, then why didn't John depict Him as the LION of the Tribe of Judah, Certainly a more worthy title for this function of Christ and just as valid, this would be much more easily understood? Have you ever seen a furocious LAMB? Of course not!

In the entire New Covenant you will have a hard time finding any real serious warnings/threats made by Jesus to anyone other than a JEW, and Christ talked plenty to the Gentiles.and yes he did seriously instruct them but not condemn or rebuke.

Furthermore in the Epistles of Paul, the writer and teacher to the Gentiles, not even one time writes a warning concerning eternal torture in hell! Some Christians love their Hell, it puts things in perspective for them. Love God or suffer Eternal Damnation in the fire pits of Hell.

Any Christian who worships God for fear of Hell has about as much love for God as a woman who is beaten into submission by her husband. Then you would say that you have made a FREEWILL choice to serve God, and i say that the last thing that is FREE is your WILL. your WILL was only operating from a cause and effect mode. Yes, you had a CHOICE, you could choose YEA or NAY, but regardless you ARE being controled by the consequence, and that consequence you DO NOT control, it is God who controls the CONSEQUENCE. Your will is not free, only your choice is free, however their is a consequence for your choice, be it good or bad.

Bottom line I would not stand in the gap on this issue if mainstream Christianity did not dogmatically condemn almost all mankind to eternal Hell! Most Christians believe that ALL Jews are going to hell ALL Muslims and Buddist ALL Atheist ALL non believers and ALL who have never even heard of Christ not to mention that even MOST Christians won't get to Heaven either according to their own word!

I doubt this writing convinced ANY and I am sure you could write back all the scripture quotes in the N.T. indicating contrary to what I have written, and many of you are smarter than I, but I am a believer for more than forty years and I have read the Word of God through and complete many times.

I will admit I do not have all the answers, but I believe Christ, the Savior of the whole world, is NOT waiting in heaven until He can be unleashed on mankind with great fury to torture them eternally in hell. The logic that is applied here defies the True Christ, the God of Love and Compassion. The God of Grace and Mercy.

Maybe you can imagine this fury on the likes of HITLER or DHAMMER, but can you imagine this fury on a Jewish girl of age 17 whose Dad is a Rabbi and worships God. Can you imagine this fury on a person who never heard of Christ? Can you imagine this fury on a 15 year old Christian girl who commits suicide because she is terrified at school of being bullied by mean girls. Can you imagine this terror put onto the Indians, in America, as they were being raped and tortured to death by Columbus who declared Christianity as his faith. What of the Jews who died in the Holocaust at the hands of the admitted Christian Adolf Hitler?

Der Alter, I know that you dis-like it when I write like this, and certainly it is my subjective feelings that are my reasons, as you have said! But non theless it is what it is! I will quote Martin Luther in conclusion:

"There by the the Grace of God go I, I can do no other."

What is your interpretation of these 4 verses then?

(Rotherham) Revelation 20:10 and, the Adversary that had been deceiving them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [were] both the wild-beast and the false-prophet; and they shall be tormented, day and night, unto the ages of ages.

(Rotherham) Revelation 20:15 And, if anyone was not found, in the book of life, written, he was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?


these 4 verses say to me that all those who believe Jesus is the son of God are overcomers and overcomers have their names in the book of life. Others do not. Those whose names are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire unto the ages of ages. what do you say they mean?

It's not christianity that condemns people to the lake of fire, it's the word of God that does that. christians are just telling you what it says.