I believe in Jesus, but I cannot accept some mainstream Christian beliefs.

[FredVB]

As I think would have been said before, God is not willing that any should perish. So responding to the comment, "Do you believe by your understanding of doctrine that Jews are going to hell? it is a YES or NO..." we should understand that Jesus, a Jew born among Jews, and having lived as a Jew, but in his case perfectly, made salvation possible, that being revealed first among Jews, and for many years in the beginning, the only Christians were Jews. Jews can and do become Christian at any time, as it is possibe for any person from any religion, or irreligion, but in the case of Judaism, that based on the Scriptures is fully compatible with Christianity and the message of salvation. The time is coming we are told in Scripture that Jews will be the agency of showing the gospel. The answer like for so many others is that Some Jews will go to hell and some will be saved, in a time coming all remaining Jews will be saved. Yes, katallasso, anything we can do can never save us, because it is from grace of our all-loving Father in Heaven, through Jesus.

About the question "wondering if it would be better to not know Jesus and possibly go to heaven than it would if you know Him and then reject Him?" it would never be better not to know Jesus. If you really do know him, you are saved, God works in you, you love him, and with his work in you, you will not ultimately reject him and you will go to heaven. Some are insincere playing at Christianity. Perhaps the question meant hearing of him and not responding? If that persists one remains under judgment. If one has truly never heard of him there is the need to seek God for evidence of God is manifest, and God rewards one seeking with more knowledge, but many are hardened against seeking, and the gospel needs to be spread to give all more opportunity, which is God's will.

Fred
http://christiantribeofyahweh.yolasite.com

 

[JELIEL]

Hello there. Let me start by saying that I would define myself as someone that has a relationship with Jesus, not necessarily someone that calls themselves Christian, because my beliefs towards some common and mainstream tenants of Christianity make it so that I do not fall into the modern definition of a Christian. But, I am someone that has a relationship with Jesus... This is what I think of myself as. Someone that believes in and loves Jesus, regardless of whether others consider me a Christian or not.

Modern definition of a Christian:

"Christianity started out in Palestine as a fellowship;
it moved to Greece and became a philosophy;
it moved to Italy and became an institution;
it moved to Europe and became a culture;
it came to America and became an enterprise." Sam Pascoe

So if you have a relationship with Jesus, I will consider you a “Christian” or a follower of Jesus. Remember Yeshua of Nazareth (Jesus) Paul of Tarsus and James the Just (Jesus brother) were the first figures of the “Jesus Movement” they considered themselves to be Jews, and often referred to themselves as followers of “The Way” This was before the followers of Jesus were called Christians.

I was born a Lutheran Christian, and had a very nice childhood, and all that jazz. But, when I reached my 20's, I began to have some serious problems with common themes held in Christianity.

Morality and logic cannot allow me to accept some of the common tenants of Christianity. Mainly, I cannot accept the concept of a 'hell', or an 'eternal' damnation, or even the idea that one has to profess a belief to someone in order to be 'saved', or that any sin we commit warrants said eternal damnation. I can't accept that believing in something is what dictates where someone ends up. There are also parts of the Bible that I cannot accept come from a loving God, the God I know. Another issue I have is the idea of Biblical inerrancy and the political influence over the Bible.

You are not the only one who does not believe in hell or eternal damnation, among the 33000+ Christian denominations some do not believe hell either.

Hebrews 8: 12 [NASB] written in the Bible says, “For I will be merciful to their iniquities, And I will remember their sins no more.”

Jesus, again in Hebrews 10:17 [NASB], “And their sins & their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”…

As you can see from the above God is a God of Love not resentful God seeking revenge and punishment.

Please note I didn’t say any of this to start an argument. I know you will tell me that I'm wrong, and all of that, but it's still my belief. I don't believe that one person's beliefs are more valid than another's... because it's a relationship with Jesus I have, not with religion. Again... these are my own views. Please don't start trying to lecture me because of them. Thanks.

I have decided to read everything I can find for myself, including the Bible of course, but also non canon early Christian writings, other religious beliefs that support the idea of Jesus, NDE accounts, and my own meditation, to form a picture of Jesus for myself.

In the end, I have settled on a sort of Christian universalism. I take to heart the idea that God is love, and those that dwell in love dwell in God. I also believe in some non mainstream Christian beliefs, such as reincarnation, near death experiences, ghosts, and so on. So, for my own saneness, I have come to view Jesus as not just the title for the son of God, but for the literal love of God, or love itself. In other words, I believe that anyone that dwells in love dwells in Jesus and in God, even if they do not know Him by name or choose to call Him another name. When Jesus says He is the one way, the true way, I take that as meaning that following Jesus's teachings - specifically to love God and to love each other- not necessarily professing faith to a title, open a pathway to God. That, and dwelling in love, because God made love, and God is love (to me). If we do not dwell in love, we cannot have the path to God opened to us. So, when I myself say I accept Jesus as my savior, I am accepting his teachings, and love itself. This is my belief. Again, I really do not wish to start a debate or argument over it. I know it's not mainstream.

This is the only way my sense of morality and my own logic can allow me to be a Christian.

I know this is far different from how most people here approach Christianity, Christ, and religion, and please keep in mind I do not want to start an argument or a debate. I know you probably think that I’m wrong. I’m fine with that. Please don’t start threatening me with eternal hellfire. I only wish to know if there are any others here that have felt similar feelings to what I have described.

Nothing wrong with your thinking or philosophy, Jesus teach Love, the second command He gave us, was
“Love you neighbour as yourself”


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[Der Alte]

[ . . . ]You are not the only one who does not believe in hell or eternal damnation, among the 33000+ Christian denominations some do not believe hell either.

Hebrews 8: 12 [NASB] written in the Bible says, “For I will be merciful to their iniquities, And I will remember their sins no more.”

Jesus, again in Hebrews 9:17 [NASB], “And their sins & their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”…

As you can see from the above God is a God of Love not resentful God seeking revenge and punishment.[ . . . ]

Anybody can "prove"almost any false teaching by cherry picking verses and quoting them out-of-context. Lets look at Heb 10:17 which you mis-wrote as 9:17

Heb 10:16-23
(16) This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, saith the Lord: I will put my laws on their heart, And upon their mind also will I write them; then saith he,
(17) And their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
(18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
(19) Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holy place by the blood of Jesus,
(20) by the way which he dedicated for us, a new and living way, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
(21) and having a great priest over the house of God;
(22) let us draw near with a true heart in fulness of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience: and having our body washed with pure water,
(23) let us hold fast the confession of our hope that it waver not; for he is faithful that promised:​

Note that God remembering their sins and their iniquities no more is dependent on the person participating in the covenant with God, having God's laws written on their hearts, enter[ing] into the holy place by the blood of Jesus, and hold[ing] fast the confession of our hope that it waver not.

 

[JELIEL]

Anybody can "prove"almost any false teaching by cherry picking verses and quoting them out-of-context. Lets look at Heb 10:17 which you mis-wrote as 9:17

St. Francis of Assisi "Preach the gospel. And if necessary, use words.”

St. Franziskus von Assisi "das Evangelium zu predigen. Und wenn nötig mit Worten."


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[Dionysiou]

Too true, too many people focus on only one aspect of God, be it His holiness, wrath or love. Choosing to believe in only one part of God is ignorant and you are only serving a sentiment. So dont pick the parts about God that you like and make your own religion in your head, because at the end of the day the only one your fooling is yourself.

 

[Dalexsi]

Hi Lizzybeth,
I read your original post and I wanted to let you know that yes there are others out there like you. I found myself agreeing with what you wrote in your post. Like you I'm not posting here to get in an argument with anyone.
I believe in Jesus. I am most familiar with christianity and because I believe in Jesus I consider myself a christian. I also believe that other religions have truth, and that no one religion has all of the truth. The God who is the creator of all the diversity we see and know would also be fine with a person worshipping as a muslim, or a jew or a pagan, christian, hindu etc. because humans are diverse also. To me, it's all about love.
So I wanted to let you know you're not alone and I'm going to bow out of this thread now as I'm not interested in being lectured to or told that I'm wrong and am going to hell.
Best wishes to you!
Dani

 

[JELIEL]

Hi Lizzybeth,
I read your original post and I wanted to let you know that yes there are others out there like you. I found myself agreeing with what you wrote in your post. Like you I'm not posting here to get in an argument with anyone.
I believe in Jesus. I am most familiar with christianity and because I believe in Jesus I consider myself a christian. I also believe that other religions have truth, and that no one religion has all of the truth. The God who is the creator of all the diversity we see and know would also be fine with a person worshipping as a muslim, or a jew or a pagan, christian, hindu etc. because humans are diverse also. To me, it's all about love.
So I wanted to let you know you're not alone and I'm going to bow out of this thread now as I'm not interested in being lectured to or told that I'm wrong and am going to hell.
Best wishes to you!
Dani

to that!

I found your reply to represent the true Christian Spirit of Love.

"Love your Neighbour as you love yourself"




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[ripple the car]

i can say that there are many things in your beliefs, Lizzybeth, which i would like to be true. i want to believe that there is no such thing as punishment after this life, and that after this life we may come back until we learn better and have grown closer to God, but the Word of God tells me differently.

part of being a Christian means letting God's standards become our own, and not the other way around. that may sound harsh, but the God who made the heavens and the earth is both a God who encompasses all people, who loves deeply, who overlooks many sins in mercy, and who has also done specific things in history, through the person of Jesus of Nazareth. He is a God who loves and is concerned for all people, yet who has not inspired or spoken through all people who have claimed that He has, and who has asked humanity to turn from false beliefs and practices, and to believe in and follow His Son. it's a loving message which is also specific, at the exclusion of many other things.

it's a love which finds its expression and embodiment in a specific person, who died on a cross, and was raised from the dead. we are called to love and serve everyone, no matter what they believe or how they live. we are not called to be self-righteous or mean-spirited, just the opposite. true Christian love also points the person towards Jesus, through whom alone one can know and follow and be reconciled to God, personally and eternally.

 

[Dionysiou]

ohhhh ok lets play this game shall we? Ill pick and choose the parts of God that are real to me and ignore the rest because i dont like what they are. This has to be one of the biggest deceptions someone can give into. Its a nice sentiment and will bring you comfort, but your kidding yourself and you might as well start serving the unicorn from rainbow island. Because if your to serve the God of the bible, the one True God, then you accept everything about him, not just the parts you like.

 

[ToxicReboMan]

ohhhh ok lets play this game shall we? Ill pick and choose the parts of God that are real to me and ignore the rest because i dont like what they are. This has to be one of the biggest deceptions someone can give into. Its a nice sentiment and will bring you comfort, but your kidding yourself and you might as well start serving the unicorn from rainbow island. Because if your to serve the God of the bible, the one True God, then you accept everything about him, not just the parts you like.

Well according to Scripture the only true God is the Father.

 

[JELIEL]

ohhhh ok lets play this game shall we? Ill pick and choose the parts of God that are real to me and ignore the rest because i dont like what they are.

This has to be one of the biggest deceptions someone can give into. Its a nice sentiment and will bring you comfort, but your kidding yourself and you might as well start serving the unicorn from rainbow island. Because if your to serve the God of the bible, the one True God, then you accept everything about him, not just the parts you like.

St. Francis of Assisi - "Preach the gospel. And if necessary, use words.”


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[ripple the car]

St. Francis of Assisi "Preach the gospel. And if necessary, use words.”

Christ disagreed. much of His time was spent vocally communicating the Good News, parables, and teachings, and answering the accusations of his opponents. and i have read that this quote is not actually historically attributable to St. Francis, according to the friars who care for his writings and earthly possessions.

being a silent, humble, and loving Christian witness has a place. so does vocally telling others about Christ. if we refuse or fail to do this, we are not doing what our Lord has asked us to do- tell others about Him.

 

[JELIEL]

Christ disagreed. much of His time was spent vocally communicating the Good News, parables, and teachings, and answering the accusations of his opponents. and i have read that this quote is not actually historically attributable to St. Francis, according to the friars who care for his writings and earthly possessions.

being a silent, humble, and loving Christian witness has a place. so does vocally telling others about Christ. if we refuse or fail to do this, we are not doing what our Lord has asked us to do- tell others about Him.

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Proverbs 18:6 A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.

Proverbs 20:3 It is an honour for a man to cease from strife: but every fool will be meddling.


.

 

[ripple the car]

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Proverbs 18:6 A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.

Proverbs 20:3 It is an honour for a man to cease from strife: but every fool will be meddling.

the first Bible verse you quote refers to idolatry, in the middle of Pauline arguments against it, and the second and third to useless arguing.

Christ also argued and contended, but for the right reasons and in a just way. Paul also debated and argued theology, and we can see a spirit of strong defense of Truth in the Epistles of Peter and John, as well.

arguing about and in defense of the Truth is not foolish talk. it is often neccesary, and helpful on both sides. when is foolish is arguing or contending with hatred, pride, self-righteousness, or an uncharitable attitude. but there in nothing sinful in healthy debate, or disagreement for the sake of correct doctrine.

 

[JELIEL]

the first Bible verse you quote refers to idolatry, in the middle of Pauline arguments against it, and the second and third to useless arguing.

Christ also argued and contended, but for the right reasons and in a just way. Paul also debated and argued theology, and we can see a spirit of strong defense of Truth in the Epistles of Peter and John, as well.

arguing about and in defense of the Truth is not foolish talk. it is often neccesary, and helpful on both sides. when is foolish is arguing or contending with hatred, pride, self-righteousness, or an uncharitable attitude. but there in nothing sinful in healthy debate, or disagreement for the sake of correct doctrine.

As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. Proverbs 26:11

The senseless man does not know, fools do not understand, Psalm 92:6

It is an honour for a man to cease from strife: but every fool will be meddling. Proverbs 20:3

Proverbs 17:28: “Even a fool, when he holds his peace [does not speak], is counted wise: and he that shuts his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.” It is sometimes better to say nothing at all.

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself. Proverbs 26:4

Let thy words be few. -- Ecclesiastes 5:2

Proverbs 14:7 Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.


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[brinny]

You know... I really wanted to talk to other people that shared my views, not get into an argument with those that didn't. I thought I made that pretty clear.

If you must know, I don't believe that a belief in eternal damnation is needed to believe in Jesus, or believe in what Jesus taught. I said that I see Jesus as the God, and love incarnate, before Jesus came, we were lost. Jesus knew that we were lost, so he gave us teachings to help guide us back to God (and love). You can say that I am not a Christian because I do not have the same views as you, but I know that I love and believe in God in my heart, and that's what matters to me.

And you misunderstood my beliefs. To me, Jesus is needed if love is what brings you to God, because I believe Jesus himself is love incarnate. I do not believe someone can love without having Jesus within them. In my book, you can't have one without the other, so they are inseparable.

I believe that Jesus saves all of us eventually, which is indeed salvation in my eyes. I believe people that do not dwell in God (love), that are apart from Jesus, probably do have a temporary period or age where they must be cleansed of their sins, but I do not believe a loving God sends people to be tormented forever.

You can say what someone else believes is not based on facts, but in the end it is just that - a belief. You believe all the early church leaders were divinely inspired, I have trouble with that. You can say I am wrong, and that's fine. But your interpretation isn't more valid than someone else's, because it's based on faith, not on factual evidence.

This may help. Watch the video. Jesus Himself said not all those who say to Him Lord Lord will enter His kingdom. He will say to such to depart from Him for He never knew them.

Watch/listen to this:

YouTube - Revival

 

[ripple the car]

so, Jeliel, according to you when our Lord contended with the Pharisees and taught Truth at the expense of much else, when Peter and Paul preached in the synagogues and sought to persuade their fellow Jews, and when John stood up against heresy, they were no more than dogs returning to their own vommit, and fools uttering nonsense.

such an attitiute is not only foolish in itself, but deeply disrespectful of God. Truth matters. if it did not, Christ would not have come.

 

[brinny]

YouTube - The Shocking Youth Message (Paul Washer)