Let's quickly define the word hell as used in our above scripture. Strong's #86 Hell Greek is Hades it means "UNSEEN" "it corresponds to Sheol in the O.T."
Well then what about Sheol? UNBELIEVABLE, when I look it up in Strong's it says see hell, seriously can you believe that to translate a Hebrew word I must look up an Anglo-Saxon word (HELL) in the Greek language. This is foolish scholarship! Did you know that prior to 725ad the word hell did not exist? in its earliest renderings Hell, hele meant to cover, thus "UNSEEN". It was not until the dark ages and after that Hell took on this more provocative term, of demons and tormented flesh etc. Did you know that Greek Mythological Hades and paganism, agrees closer to Hell and it's torment than the Holy Scriptures?
Some might challenge my understanding of hell as erroneous, not considering "Gehenna, The Lake of Fire, The Bottomless Pit and Perdition! I would be all to glad to write of these as well but first this must be understood!
How about lets stop this foolishness and I give a proper definition of Sheol and Hades based on scripture: Ecc. 9:5 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not ANYTHING...."verse 10 "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave."or (Sheol)
Since it has already been established that Hades is nothing more than the Greek word for Sheol and this word clearly means unseen an imperceptible, then how does Christianity get torture torment and everlasting fire? In two words Brian, Augustine and Justinian. Church Fathers of Catholicism known as "scholars and theologians" men of depraved minds and completely unscrupulous. This also is a bigger understanding than you can receive right now, but again I would love to write it.
Back to our parable: Luke 16:23
Verse 23 clearly says that in HELL he lift up his eyes, wait a minute, are you telling me that the Bible is lying, cause seriously if this man is in hell/hades/Sheol then I am pretty clear that there is NO work, NO devise, NO knowledge, NO wisdom in this place, (See ECC. 9:5 as quoted above). Does the bible lie when it says that the Dead do not know anything at all? How could he lift up his eyes being that there is no work nor devise?
Furthermore, let us not forget that this parable is being told by Christ, and before the Resurrection! furthermore has it registered in your brain yet that the rich man is supposedly being punished and condemned before JUDGMENT day, how can this be? I think I need a scripture and verse to believe that we are judged and condemned before judgment day. Do we as Christians not think anymore or do we just concede are ignorance to the "SCHOLARS," the blind leading the blind....
So why would Jesus tell this parable? why to rile the Pharisee's you see! Verse 24 makes it plain enough that the rich man is related to Abraham he was a JEW he was a chosen vessel by God therefore in his lifetime he received "GOOD THINGS" or GOD THINGS, the Torah, the Prophets and the Writings, the Jews were a covanted people, but Lazarus was not a Jew, he was a Gentile servant of Abraham and at one point Father Abraham even thought that this Lazarus was to fulfill the Abrahamic covenant see Genesis: 15:1-4, this is where Christ formulated His parable from. Read it:
Therefore this man known as Eliezer, in the Hebrew , actually translates Lazarus in the Greek and certainly you can see why Jesus indicated that this Lazarus had nothing in his life, but you as a Jew had everything! They had God, Abraham, Isaac,Jacob and all the prophets.
Verse 26 is not a depiction of Christianity's fabled hell, but God who has blinded the nation Israel that they could not see, therefore they cannot cross the gulf. The New Covenant was guaranteed to leave the Jews out but not because Jesus willed it but because of their own rejection of Christ.
Verse 27-28 this Lazarus wanted to go tell his 5 brothers (symbolic of all Israel) that the Jews were loosing their covenant place with God. Numerically in the Bible the number 5 represents GRACE and MERCY! I reckon Jesus knew how to tell a parable!
Verse 29 Abraham says "they ( the JEWS) have Moses and the Prophets: let them hear them." Jesus was clearly referring to the Torah and all the Prophets who all testified of HIM, as no Gentile had Moses or the prophets, these were Jewish leaders.
This ignorant rich man believed that if someone came back from the dead they would repent, that is believe in Christ and not loose their Covenant place with God, but Christ makes it really clear, "if they can't hear Moses or the Prophets then neither will they be persuaded though one rose from the dead".
Jesus could not make it more clear, He was telling this parable to all the people especially the Pharisee's and he was insulting them to the highest degree by telling them they were loosing their rightful place with God and furthermore it was being given to their enemy, the Gentiles. Certainly the Pharisee's understood what Christ was saying even though 2000 years later Christians still can't figure it out!
To use this scripture to prove eternal suffering and torment in the fire's of hell is pure ignorance on scholarship, it lack's creditability and ANY FORM of agreement with the original Greek.
This is just one way that AUTHORITIES have perverted the Words of God, it is not I who "WREST" the scriptures, but men who were long ago ordained for this condemnation Jude 1:4 and the Christian world is drinking their Kool-Aid, only today we call them Theologian Doctor Scholar Pastor, and when they are really ignorant we call them Evangelist or worse yet Prophet, PROFIT!
Luke 16 is not to be taken literally. It is spiritual and it was absolutely a warning to the Jews! No other interpretation is needed!
We can continue believing in Mythology if we want to, certainly it makes for a good read, but I think the scriptures are clear when they say "know the truth and the truth will set you free"!
Look at verse 30 ....but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. and Jesus answered 31....if they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Can it NOT be seen that Jesus was in reference to Himself? How many Jews do you think have converted to Christianity? NOT MANY in fact hardly ANY! Oh, I know well the Messianic Jewish movement, it is mostly Christians wanting to be Jews not Jews wanting to be Christians, again it is more indulgences of the carnal mind and the flesh.
We have converted more Muslims and Buddhist than we have Jews, why? I'll tell you why, because of Romans 11:32 "For God has concluded them (JEWS) ALL in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon ALL." So who is going to SAVE the Jews? GOD
"And so ALL Israel shall be SAVED....For this is my covenant with them, when I shall TAKE AWAY their sins."
Are the Jews going to perish eternally in HELL for their denial of Christ? NOT SO! ALL Israel will be saved and NO where in the scriptures does it say that "only" the righteous Jews will be saved, in fact, the bible says that there are none that are RIGHTEOUS, no not one.
Consider it this way, in 1945 Hitler was torturing and mutilating Jews by the millions. after they suffered some of the most horrendous acts of sadistic punishment, not to mention starvation and sick and twisted experimentation of every kind, they were hurled into an incinerator and gassed! Almost none of these Jews if any received Christ. Let us not forget that Hitler was doing this abomination because he believed this was the Divine will of Christ! Crazy but true! you won't hear that preached from behind the pulpits!
My question is this? Why does Mainstream Christianity teach, by doctrine, that these poor suffering Jews would die an insane death of torture and dismemberment and then be handed over to God who mercilessly condemns them to hell for their "REAL PUNISHMENT" eternally? That is sick and twisted and mainstream Christianity has twisted and perverted the scriptures to back up their FALSE DOCTRINES of eternal torment. If only some of those Christ forsaken Jews would of believed Hitler then maybe they would not be burning in the flames of Hell right now! Sounds crazy doesn't it, that is because it is, but nontheless that is ultimately what many as Christian are saying. Yes I know that's not quite the way it comes across, instead they really are saying it is God's will, and that makes it BLASPHEMOUS. And they hide like cowards behind their sacred doctrine.
When Jesus was dying on the cross he looked down on his murderers and said "Father FORGIVE THEM for they know not what they do" Luke. 23:34
Mark 2:10 says "That ye may know that the Son of man has power on EARTH TO FORGIVE SINS."
Were these murderers forgiven? Of course they were forgiven, and if you believe differently than that you must pervert the scriptures. Not only did these Jews not believe in Christ but they crucified Him to death and His crime charged against Him was BLASPHEMY!
,Matthew 12:31 says "ALL manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men but the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 but whosoever speaks a word against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven Him, neither in this AGE nor in the AGE to come."
Here we go again into the AGES. this scripture does not mean that there is NEVER forgiveness eternally. but rather that there is NO forgiveness in THIS AGE, the AGE OF LAW, nor in the next age, the AGE OF GRACE. that is to say that after the age of grace, it is possible for forgiveness.We are currently in the age of Grace. And in this AGE their is NO forgiveness to those who forsake Christ but in the next AGE forgiveness may be obtained.
You might be asking what is the age of Law and the age of Grace, it is; the Old Testament the age of Law, and the New testament, the age of Grace. Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost will not be forgiven in either of these two AGES!
Ephesians 1:10 "That in the dispensation of the FULLNESS OF TIMES He might gather together in one ALL things in Christ...."
at the consummation of the ages all things will be gathered together IN Christ. this scripture is not saying "all those who believe in Christ and them only. Sadly that is what the Church doctrine teaches.
Philippians 2:10-11 "At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord..."
There are three realms here Brian, Heaven Earth and Under the Earth. These are spiritual realms: The heavens are the Sons of God, the Earth is symbolic of all those carnal minded Christians and under the earth is symbolic of the wicked. The book of Revelation is the same although it says the Heavens the Earth and the Sea, the Sea ultimately representing the lowest realm. That is why I said that the beast from the sea is not the Antichrist but the Roman Empire and the beast from the earth is false Christianity.
Brian their are many AGES and these ages are not eternal, everlasting, or forever as is taught by Christian Orthodoxy. It is to their shame and their foolishness that they are deceived.
Yours in Christ,
Kal
Well then what about Sheol? UNBELIEVABLE, when I look it up in Strong's it says see hell, seriously can you believe that to translate a Hebrew word I must look up an Anglo-Saxon word (HELL) in the Greek language. This is foolish scholarship! Did you know that prior to 725ad the word hell did not exist? in its earliest renderings Hell, hele meant to cover, thus "UNSEEN". It was not until the dark ages and after that Hell took on this more provocative term, of demons and tormented flesh etc. Did you know that Greek Mythological Hades and paganism, agrees closer to Hell and it's torment than the Holy Scriptures?
Some might challenge my understanding of hell as erroneous, not considering "Gehenna, The Lake of Fire, The Bottomless Pit and Perdition! I would be all to glad to write of these as well but first this must be understood!
How about lets stop this foolishness and I give a proper definition of Sheol and Hades based on scripture: Ecc. 9:5 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not ANYTHING...."verse 10 "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave."or (Sheol)
Since it has already been established that Hades is nothing more than the Greek word for Sheol and this word clearly means unseen an imperceptible, then how does Christianity get torture torment and everlasting fire? In two words Brian, Augustine and Justinian. Church Fathers of Catholicism known as "scholars and theologians" men of depraved minds and completely unscrupulous. This also is a bigger understanding than you can receive right now, but again I would love to write it.
Back to our parable: Luke 16:23
Verse 23 clearly says that in HELL he lift up his eyes, wait a minute, are you telling me that the Bible is lying, cause seriously if this man is in hell/hades/Sheol then I am pretty clear that there is NO work, NO devise, NO knowledge, NO wisdom in this place, (See ECC. 9:5 as quoted above). Does the bible lie when it says that the Dead do not know anything at all? How could he lift up his eyes being that there is no work nor devise?
Furthermore, let us not forget that this parable is being told by Christ, and before the Resurrection! furthermore has it registered in your brain yet that the rich man is supposedly being punished and condemned before JUDGMENT day, how can this be? I think I need a scripture and verse to believe that we are judged and condemned before judgment day. Do we as Christians not think anymore or do we just concede are ignorance to the "SCHOLARS," the blind leading the blind....
So why would Jesus tell this parable? why to rile the Pharisee's you see! Verse 24 makes it plain enough that the rich man is related to Abraham he was a JEW he was a chosen vessel by God therefore in his lifetime he received "GOOD THINGS" or GOD THINGS, the Torah, the Prophets and the Writings, the Jews were a covanted people, but Lazarus was not a Jew, he was a Gentile servant of Abraham and at one point Father Abraham even thought that this Lazarus was to fulfill the Abrahamic covenant see Genesis: 15:1-4, this is where Christ formulated His parable from. Read it:
Therefore this man known as Eliezer, in the Hebrew , actually translates Lazarus in the Greek and certainly you can see why Jesus indicated that this Lazarus had nothing in his life, but you as a Jew had everything! They had God, Abraham, Isaac,Jacob and all the prophets.
Verse 26 is not a depiction of Christianity's fabled hell, but God who has blinded the nation Israel that they could not see, therefore they cannot cross the gulf. The New Covenant was guaranteed to leave the Jews out but not because Jesus willed it but because of their own rejection of Christ.
Verse 27-28 this Lazarus wanted to go tell his 5 brothers (symbolic of all Israel) that the Jews were loosing their covenant place with God. Numerically in the Bible the number 5 represents GRACE and MERCY! I reckon Jesus knew how to tell a parable!
Verse 29 Abraham says "they ( the JEWS) have Moses and the Prophets: let them hear them." Jesus was clearly referring to the Torah and all the Prophets who all testified of HIM, as no Gentile had Moses or the prophets, these were Jewish leaders.
This ignorant rich man believed that if someone came back from the dead they would repent, that is believe in Christ and not loose their Covenant place with God, but Christ makes it really clear, "if they can't hear Moses or the Prophets then neither will they be persuaded though one rose from the dead".
Jesus could not make it more clear, He was telling this parable to all the people especially the Pharisee's and he was insulting them to the highest degree by telling them they were loosing their rightful place with God and furthermore it was being given to their enemy, the Gentiles. Certainly the Pharisee's understood what Christ was saying even though 2000 years later Christians still can't figure it out!
To use this scripture to prove eternal suffering and torment in the fire's of hell is pure ignorance on scholarship, it lack's creditability and ANY FORM of agreement with the original Greek.
This is just one way that AUTHORITIES have perverted the Words of God, it is not I who "WREST" the scriptures, but men who were long ago ordained for this condemnation Jude 1:4 and the Christian world is drinking their Kool-Aid, only today we call them Theologian Doctor Scholar Pastor, and when they are really ignorant we call them Evangelist or worse yet Prophet, PROFIT!
Luke 16 is not to be taken literally. It is spiritual and it was absolutely a warning to the Jews! No other interpretation is needed!
We can continue believing in Mythology if we want to, certainly it makes for a good read, but I think the scriptures are clear when they say "know the truth and the truth will set you free"!
Look at verse 30 ....but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. and Jesus answered 31....if they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Can it NOT be seen that Jesus was in reference to Himself? How many Jews do you think have converted to Christianity? NOT MANY in fact hardly ANY! Oh, I know well the Messianic Jewish movement, it is mostly Christians wanting to be Jews not Jews wanting to be Christians, again it is more indulgences of the carnal mind and the flesh.
We have converted more Muslims and Buddhist than we have Jews, why? I'll tell you why, because of Romans 11:32 "For God has concluded them (JEWS) ALL in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon ALL." So who is going to SAVE the Jews? GOD
"And so ALL Israel shall be SAVED....For this is my covenant with them, when I shall TAKE AWAY their sins."
Are the Jews going to perish eternally in HELL for their denial of Christ? NOT SO! ALL Israel will be saved and NO where in the scriptures does it say that "only" the righteous Jews will be saved, in fact, the bible says that there are none that are RIGHTEOUS, no not one.
Consider it this way, in 1945 Hitler was torturing and mutilating Jews by the millions. after they suffered some of the most horrendous acts of sadistic punishment, not to mention starvation and sick and twisted experimentation of every kind, they were hurled into an incinerator and gassed! Almost none of these Jews if any received Christ. Let us not forget that Hitler was doing this abomination because he believed this was the Divine will of Christ! Crazy but true! you won't hear that preached from behind the pulpits!
My question is this? Why does Mainstream Christianity teach, by doctrine, that these poor suffering Jews would die an insane death of torture and dismemberment and then be handed over to God who mercilessly condemns them to hell for their "REAL PUNISHMENT" eternally? That is sick and twisted and mainstream Christianity has twisted and perverted the scriptures to back up their FALSE DOCTRINES of eternal torment. If only some of those Christ forsaken Jews would of believed Hitler then maybe they would not be burning in the flames of Hell right now! Sounds crazy doesn't it, that is because it is, but nontheless that is ultimately what many as Christian are saying. Yes I know that's not quite the way it comes across, instead they really are saying it is God's will, and that makes it BLASPHEMOUS. And they hide like cowards behind their sacred doctrine.
When Jesus was dying on the cross he looked down on his murderers and said "Father FORGIVE THEM for they know not what they do" Luke. 23:34
Mark 2:10 says "That ye may know that the Son of man has power on EARTH TO FORGIVE SINS."
Were these murderers forgiven? Of course they were forgiven, and if you believe differently than that you must pervert the scriptures. Not only did these Jews not believe in Christ but they crucified Him to death and His crime charged against Him was BLASPHEMY!
,Matthew 12:31 says "ALL manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men but the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 but whosoever speaks a word against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven Him, neither in this AGE nor in the AGE to come."
Here we go again into the AGES. this scripture does not mean that there is NEVER forgiveness eternally. but rather that there is NO forgiveness in THIS AGE, the AGE OF LAW, nor in the next age, the AGE OF GRACE. that is to say that after the age of grace, it is possible for forgiveness.We are currently in the age of Grace. And in this AGE their is NO forgiveness to those who forsake Christ but in the next AGE forgiveness may be obtained.
You might be asking what is the age of Law and the age of Grace, it is; the Old Testament the age of Law, and the New testament, the age of Grace. Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost will not be forgiven in either of these two AGES!
Ephesians 1:10 "That in the dispensation of the FULLNESS OF TIMES He might gather together in one ALL things in Christ...."
at the consummation of the ages all things will be gathered together IN Christ. this scripture is not saying "all those who believe in Christ and them only. Sadly that is what the Church doctrine teaches.
Philippians 2:10-11 "At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord..."
There are three realms here Brian, Heaven Earth and Under the Earth. These are spiritual realms: The heavens are the Sons of God, the Earth is symbolic of all those carnal minded Christians and under the earth is symbolic of the wicked. The book of Revelation is the same although it says the Heavens the Earth and the Sea, the Sea ultimately representing the lowest realm. That is why I said that the beast from the sea is not the Antichrist but the Roman Empire and the beast from the earth is false Christianity.
Brian their are many AGES and these ages are not eternal, everlasting, or forever as is taught by Christian Orthodoxy. It is to their shame and their foolishness that they are deceived.
Yours in Christ,
Kal
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