DingDing said: "Not sure what you meant here. Show me where the Westminster Confession says men have the freewill choice, and from that God-given free will, given to all and freely used of all, that all choose where they will spend eternity."
Chapter III
Of God's Eternal Decree
I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so
, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,
nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.
Chapter V
Of Providence
I. God the great Creator of all things does uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge, and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy.............
II. Although, in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first Cause, all things come to pass immutably, and infallibly;
yet, by the same providence, He orders them to fall out, according to the nature of second causes, either necessarily, freely, or contingently......................
III. God, in His ordinary providence,
makes use of means,
You may well disagree with Calvinists on these points. But you cannot truthfully charge that they do not believe that salvation, judgment and condemnation, and indeed the fall itself does not come from the decrees of God only but by way of the will of the creature as well.
DingDing said: "Here is the problem. Reformist have elected to call their interpretation of scripture, the "doctrines of grace", and by thereby doing so, the reformists have erected a sweet-smelling tomb-stone over their interpretation of scripture, so that anyone challenging their interpretation, can now be accused of denying God's grace."
I have not made such a charge.
I have said and still say that they do not understand grace correctly. But I have never accused them of denying God's grace.
DingDing said: "The "doctrines of grace", as you define them, are not the truth of scripture."
The Westminster (for instance) provides chapter and verse for every one of their doctrinal interpretations. Attempt to refute them if you must. It has been attempted over the years and usually fails IMO.
There is a reason that most every comprehensive systematic treatment of these doctrines throughout the centuries following the Reformation takes a more or less "Reformed" viewpoint.
**** I will say here that some Calvinist explanations of these doctrines are incorrect IMO. For instance - I, along with John Calvin before me, do not believe in "limited atonement" as usually presented by 5 point Calvinists.
DingDing said: "So let's get this straight, I am defending scripture against the reformed interpretation of scripture; it is not that I am denying scripture. The "doctrines of grace" are a false and misguided interpretation of scripture."
Nor have I so accused you of that. Let's get
that straight.
DingDing said: "The "doctrines of grace" are a false and misguided interpretation of scripture."
You are welcome to that opinion of course. But the majority of comprehensive and systematic works of scripture only based theology throughout the centuries since the Reformation disagree with you.
By the way ---- charges of
"sweet smelling tombstones and stinking corpses" does not make for a productive conversation between brothers.
