I became sick when I started reading about the Doctrine of Reprobation. Thoughts on it?

Kyle16

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Here is how I understand the doctrine of reprobation: "Reprobation is the sovereign decision of God before creation to pass over some persons, in sorrow deciding not to save them, and to punish them for their sins, and thereby to manifest his justice"

At first I was hurt and had to walk away from my reading when I read this (Reprobation). But when I came back one of the first things I read was this

"Iam speaking the truth in Christ, I am not lying;my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen by race. They are Israelites...(Rom.9:1-4)

Here is how I think of it.I kind of ramble so I apologize.
God created everyone before they were even born. He also knows which creatures will sin and not find fault in their sin before they are even born. He also knows before anyone is born who will have harden hearts (Rom.11:7). God does not predestine us to Sin and not ask forgiveness. WE DO. God is fair and justice. We were only born into this world because of him and we are his creatures. He does not owe anything to us but by his Grace he comes and saves the people he wills.

If your going to make a point to someone or argue, at-least back it up with some scripture please.
If your going to argue against reprobation don't argue using human logic PLEASE. Only use scripture. Thank you!
 
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Neogaia777

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Here is how I understand the doctrine of reprobation: "Reprobation is the sovereign decision of God before creation to pass over some persons, in sorrow deciding not to save them, and to punish them for their sins, and thereby to manifest his justice"

At first I was hurt and had to walk away from my reading when I read this (Reprobation). But when I came back one of the first things I read was this

"Iam speaking the truth in Christ, I am not lying;my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen by race. They are Israelites...(Rom.9:1-4)

Here is how I think of it.I kind of ramble so I apologize.
God created everyone before they were even born. He also knows which creatures will sin and not find fault in their sin before they are even born. He also knows before anyone is born who will have harden hearts (Rom.11:7). God does not predestine us to Sin and not ask forgiveness. WE DO. God is fair and justice. We were only born into this world because of him and we are his creatures. He does not owe anything to us but by his Grace he comes and saves the people he wills.

If your going to make a point to someone or argue, at-least back it up with some scripture please.
If your going to argue against reprobation don't argue using human logic PLEASE. Only use scripture. Thank you!
Once they have heard, fully comprehended and understood the Gospel, and/but reject it over and over again, and they die in that state, then their is nothing that can be done for them, they get their hearts desire in the afterlife, which unfortunately isn't good... God may use them and their example to save others however... He does this respecting our will in the matter and will force nothing on anyone... We have to choose unfortunately/fortunately...

It is God, the Son I am talking about here though, God the Father already knows, from the moment they were born, from creation on, but is only one who already knows everything about all of us, including God the Son, Satan, the angels and demons and all of us, and how all that mix plays out...

God Bless!
 
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Norbert L

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I think what needs to be factored into how reprobation is defined in your comment is Genesis 4:7, "[sin] its desire is for you, but you must master it". There are reasons why God would not save a person. When a person no longer sees their need to repent and instead decides to do a 180 degree embrace of their sin, such a thing walks precariously close to the unforgivable sin.

Once a person knows their need of the cross, that the length of their life will have struggles contained within it (Matthew 24:13) then somewhere along the line they decide that pursuing such a thing is garbage. That sinning is better than following Christ (Matthew 16:24) What kind of an end will they inherit?
 
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sdowney717

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Written to the saints in His church about them being predestined to adoption as sons.

Ephesians 1New King James Version (NKJV)

Greeting
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Redemption in Christ
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
 
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Greg J.

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Here is how I understand the doctrine of reprobation: "Reprobation is the sovereign decision of God before creation to pass over some persons, in sorrow deciding not to save them, and to punish them for their sins, and thereby to manifest his justice"

At first I was hurt and had to walk away from my reading when I read this (Reprobation). But when I came back one of the first things I read was this

"Iam speaking the truth in Christ, I am not lying;my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen by race. They are Israelites...(Rom.9:1-4)

Here is how I think of it.I kind of ramble so I apologize.
God created everyone before they were even born. He also knows which creatures will sin and not find fault in their sin before they are even born. He also knows before anyone is born who will have harden hearts (Rom.11:7). God does not predestine us to Sin and not ask forgiveness. WE DO. God is fair and justice. We were only born into this world because of him and we are his creatures. He does not owe anything to us but by his Grace he comes and saves the people he wills.

If your going to make a point to someone or argue, at-least back it up with some scripture please.
If your going to argue against reprobation don't argue using human logic PLEASE. Only use scripture. Thank you!
If this idea hurts because it hurts your image of God then you need to adopt a more critical perspective. It requires one adopt a view from before the beginning of time and use it to draw conclusions. However, if we are adopting a timeless perspective it is illogical to think we can reliably reason and draw a conclusion that depends on the passage of time. If-Then logic is invalid if either the "If" or the "Then" is outside of time. What we know from God's sovereign perspective is just what he has told us.

God explained most things so we can understand them, and that is within a context that we can understand: within the passage of time. Whatever God did, to us the best way to understand it is through cause and effect (which inherently requires the passage of time). People are condemned because they have not believed in Jesus.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. (John 3:18, 1984 NIV)

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. (1 Corinthians 15:22, 1984 NIV)

The fault for all human condemnation is shared between followers of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:18-20, 2 Chronicles 7:14) and the person in question themselves (Romans 1:19-20). No fault lies with God, who wants to save everyone (1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Corinthians 5:14-15; 1 Peter 3:18), but most people do not want to be saved (James 4:4,7; Matthew 23:37).
 
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SkyWriting

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One thing is undeniable IMO. Not everyone has the opportunity or ability to know Christ and be saved on account of that. If this is so, it follows that Reprobation is possible.

One should use scripture when making important observations.

19 For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts.
 
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Kyle16

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One should use scripture when making important observations.

19 For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts.

One of the keys is in Rom 1:20. With the evidence of God's existence in creation, human beings 'are without excuse' before God.

What have people done with the evidence in creation? God's invisible attributes, eternal power and divine nature are evident in creation (v. 20).

They 'suppress the truth' (v 18) because of their unrighteousness.

Oz
 
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DingDing

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Here is how I understand the doctrine of reprobation: "Reprobation is the sovereign decision of God before creation to pass over some persons, in sorrow deciding not to save them, and to punish them for their sins, and thereby to manifest his justice"

...
If your going to argue against reprobation don't argue using human logic PLEASE. Only use scripture. Thank you!

I won't argue with you other than to say that reprobation is not a biblical teaching. You won't find it in the bible, though some may think they see it in certain, isolated places, but it is nothing more than a misunderstanding.
 
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MDC

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I won't argue with you other than to say that reprobation is not a biblical teaching. You won't find it in the bible, though some may think they see it in certain, isolated places, but it is nothing more than a misunderstanding.
If one denies election, and that salvation is solely Gods Sovereign choice in whom He shows mercy upon in Christ Jesus, then most certainly one will deny reprobation, simply because they hold to some type of works salvation and the autonomy of the will.
 
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EmSw

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If one denies election, and that salvation is solely Gods Sovereign choice in whom He shows mercy upon in Christ Jesus, then most certainly one will deny reprobation, simply because they hold to some type of works salvation and the autonomy of the will.

God has mercy on all.

Romans 11:32
For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

Do you also believe those who remain in evil works are saved?
 
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DingDing

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If one denies election, ... then most certainly one will deny reprobation...

I don't deny election. Did you see my new thread on corporate election in this same folder?

Yes I have

So you do now realize that one can believe in election (as in corporate election) and not believe in reprobation, don't you? Without the calvinist doctrine of individual election to salvation, the doctrine of reprobation cannot stand. Corporate election is a death-blow to calvinism.
 
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MDC

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So you do now realize that one can believe in election (as in corporate election) and not believe in reprobation, don't you? Without the calvinist doctrine of individual election to salvation, the doctrine of reprobation cannot stand. Corporate election is a death-blow to calvinism.
Lol ok! You don't believe in the election of God. Which in turn you deny grace alone saves sinners. Just because you give it a different meaning by taking away Gods selection of certain individuals, by giving it to an empty vessel that we must attain to and maintain to stay in, doesn't mean you believe what it actually means according to scripture. Without individuals, there is no group or corporation. This is still Gain and Maintain to stay on the boat (corporation) through your works. It's Arminianism is all
 
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Paul Yohannan

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Here is how I understand the doctrine of reprobation: "Reprobation is the sovereign decision of God before creation to pass over some persons, in sorrow deciding not to save them, and to punish them for their sins, and thereby to manifest his justice"

At first I was hurt and had to walk away from my reading when I read this (Reprobation). But when I came back one of the first things I read was this

"Iam speaking the truth in Christ, I am not lying;my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen by race. They are Israelites...(Rom.9:1-4)

Here is how I think of it.I kind of ramble so I apologize.
God created everyone before they were even born. He also knows which creatures will sin and not find fault in their sin before they are even born. He also knows before anyone is born who will have harden hearts (Rom.11:7). God does not predestine us to Sin and not ask forgiveness. WE DO. God is fair and justice. We were only born into this world because of him and we are his creatures. He does not owe anything to us but by his Grace he comes and saves the people he wills.

If your going to make a point to someone or argue, at-least back it up with some scripture please.
If your going to argue against reprobation don't argue using human logic PLEASE. Only use scripture. Thank you!

I disagree that Romans 9:1-4 requires an interpretation in favor of Reprobation. You cannot read one passage in isolation. No one before the 16th century was talking about "reprobation;" the idea was innovative and contrary to all established interpretations, with the possible exception of some dubious figures such as Valentinus (the idea of a preordained and immutable distinction between the elect "Gnostics" and the unelected "spirituals" and "physicals").
 
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