I became sick when I started reading about the Doctrine of Reprobation. Thoughts on it?

[EmSw]

Lol ok! You don't believe in the election of God. Which in turn you deny grace alone saves sinners. Just because you give it a different meaning by taking away Gods selection of certain individuals, by giving it to an empty vessel that we must attain to and maintain to stay in, doesn't mean you believe what it actually means according to scripture. Without individuals, there is no group or corporation. This is still Gain and Maintain to stay on the boat (corporation) through your works. It's Arminianism is all

Hmmm, John, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was an Arminian I see.

1 John 2
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[DingDing]

One thing is undeniable IMO. Not everyone has the opportunity or ability to know Christ and be saved on account of that. If this is so, it follows that Reprobation is possible.

I think you are very wrong here, and have charged God with a great injustice.

 

[DingDing]

John Bunyan who wrote Pilgrim's progress also wrote and said there is a reprobation.
...

And who is this? Did he write the bible?

 

[DingDing]

Written to the saints in His church about them being predestined to adoption as sons.

Ephesians 1New King James Version (NKJV)
...

There is a lot you (as a calvinist, I suppose) assume here.

 

[Albion]

I think you are very wrong here, and have charged God with a great injustice.

Before you decide for sure about that, I'd like to ask what you say about people who lived and died and never heard of Jesus, let alone the Gospel.

Are you of the opinion that if they are kindly, that's good enough for God. In other words, salvation by works alone??

 

[EmSw]

Before you decide for sure about that, I'd like to ask what you say about people who lived and died and never heard of Jesus, let alone the Gospel.

Are you of the opinion that if they are kindly, that's good enough for God. In other words, salvation by works alone??

What's wrong with that opinion? Have you not read the following passages?

Acts 10:35
But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

Matthew 19:17
...but if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

Are working righteousness and keeping the commandments not predicated upon kindness?

 

[Albion]

What's wrong with that opinion? Have you not read the following passages?

Acts 10:35
But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

Matthew 19:17
...but if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

Are working righteousness and keeping the commandments not predicated upon kindness?

First explain how a person who has lived and died without ever hearing the name of Jesus or anything else to do with the Bible or the Christian faith...be fearing him or keeping the commandments?

Obviously, they cannot, and those verses do not refer to such people.

 

[Neogaia777]

Before you decide for sure about that, I'd like to ask what you say about people who lived and died and never heard of Jesus, let alone the Gospel.

Are you of the opinion that if they are kindly, that's good enough for God. In other words, salvation by works alone??

I think it is how they do, or are, or choose depending on how they are a "law unto themselves" that matters to God in those cases, how they have the "gospel that is written on, or upon, or in their hearts"...

God Bless!

 

[Albion]

I think it is how they do, or are, or choose depending on how they are a "law unto themselves" that matters to God in those cases, how they have the "gospel that is written on, or upon, or in their hearts"...

God Bless!

Wow. That's an answer, all right, but it's certainly not what the Bible (or Jesus himself) teaches us. If true, this would mean, I think, that faith is not a necessary part of salvation, only good works.

 

[EmSw]

First explain how a person who has lived and died without ever hearing the name of Jesus or anything else to do with the Bible or the Christian faith...be fearing him or keeping the commandments?

Obviously, they cannot, and those verses do not refer to such people.

Have you not read the following?

Acts 1
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Everyone knows there is a God, for His attributes are clearly seen. Do you not believe this?

Would you know it's wrong to murder someone, if you never heard the commandment to not murder? Or, would you become futile in your thoughts and murder at will?

What do you mean they 'obviously' cannot keep the commandments? Who can't keep the commandments? I'm beginning to think many Christians have a harder time keeping the commandments than unbelievers.

 

[EmSw]

Wow. That's an answer, all right, but it's certainly not what the Bible (or Jesus himself) teaches us. If true, this would mean, I think, that faith is not a necessary part of salvation, only good works.

Jesus said nothing about faith alone regarding being saved. However, he did say the following regarding -salvation -

Matthew 19:17
...but if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

It's becoming apparent that many have a problem with these words of truth from Jesus.

 

[Albion]

Have you not read the following?

Acts 1
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Everyone knows there is a God, for His attributes are clearly seen. Do you not believe this?

Would you know it's wrong to murder someone, if you never heard the commandment to not murder? Or, would you become futile in your thoughts and murder at will?

What do you mean they 'obviously' cannot keep the commandments? Who can't keep the commandments? I'm beginning to think many Christians have a harder time keeping the commandments than unbelievers.

The argument you're making is fine for a Unitarian or member of some other faith, but you can't take the God of the Bible out of the picture and still have Christianity (along with its teaching on how salvation is possible).

 

[MDC]

Jesus said nothing about faith alone regarding being saved. However, he did say the following regarding -salvation -

Matthew 19:17
...but if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

It's becoming apparent that many have a problem with these words of truth from Jesus.

It's very apparent how many modern day judaizers there are on this forum to push self righteous works salvation. If you seek to be justified by your obedience to the law, then Christ has died in vain... and you are without hope. Unless the Lord may grant u repentance and give you life in Christ Jesus, you will die a reprobate, dead in your sins

 

[EmSw]

The argument you're making is fine for a Unitarian or member of some other faith, but you can't take the God of the Bible out of the picture and still have Christianity (along with its teaching on how salvation is possible).

Do you not believe the truths Jesus gave us?

Matthew 19:17
...but if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

These words seem to offend you.

 

[EmSw]

It's very apparent how many modern day judaizers there are on this forum to push self righteous works salvation. If you seek to be justified by your obedience to the law, then Christ has died in vain... and you are without hope. Unless the Lord may grant u repentance and give you life in Christ Jesus, you will die a reprobate, dead in your sins

Since when does obedience make one a reprobate? This is insane reasoning. Perhaps you think those who do evil works are the ones who are saved and get to Heaven.

One doesn't even know Jesus if he doesn't keep His commandments. John says he is a liar and the truth is not in him. Now you tell us, how does a liar without the truth get to Heaven?

Jesus told us how to enter life. As I said, this passage has many on their heads, not wanting to believe what Jesus said. Do you believe this passage?

Matthew 19:17
...but if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

[Albion]

Do you not believe the truths Jesus gave us?

You bet I do!

 

[FireDragon76]

If you don't like reprobation, don't be a Calvinist. There are lots of us that are not.

In truth, there were many interpretations of reprobation in the Reformed church, usually it is interpreted passively. Still not cool with me, but it's not as harsh as saying God hates some people and loves others.

 

[EmSw]

You bet I do!

Excellent! Then you believe what Jesus said, 'if you want to enter life, keep the commandments.

 

[MDC]

Since when does obedience make one a reprobate? This is insane reasoning. Perhaps you think those who do evil works are the ones who are saved and get to Heaven.

One doesn't even know Jesus if he doesn't keep His commandments. John says he is a liar and the truth is not in him. Now you tell us, how does a liar without the truth get to Heaven?

Jesus told us how to enter life. As I said, this passage has many on their heads, not wanting to believe what Jesus said. Do you believe this passage?

Matthew 19:17
...but if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

When has anyone on here condoned or teach antinomianism? You really don't get it. The FRUIT of obedience, by which the child of God produces, is different from the self righteous obedience, to the laws of God. In that the self righteous thinks his obedience is MERITING Gods favor and is full of pride and arrogance. And the saved obey, for love of the truth. The love for righteousness. And the love for Christ and His Word, all done in faith and resting in their refuge and anchor, the Lord Himself! By nature, through regeneration, the elect desire righteousness and is in dispair over sin and his own wretchedness. The just live by faith and a repentant heart. The self righteous is puffed up by nature, being dead in his sin and a slave to it, thinking he can merit Gods favor somehow. How do you differ from the one who came to Jesus, in the scripture you give?? Asking "what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life".. Jesus told him " if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." All these things I have kept from my youth, the man said. But Jesus told him, if you want to be PERFECT, go sell what you have and give to the poor... and come follow me.. But the man couldn't. And showed his arrogance of self righteousness. Jesus was actually showing him that he COULDNT keep the law PERFECTLY to inherit life! Because the law is the KNOWLEDGE of sin. It exposes our guilt and inabilities to please God. The law shows us our naked rotten wretched self!! And by what our Lord said, should've humbled him in sorrow over his guilt and drive him to the feet of Jesus. To seek Gods mercy and to be found in Christ! But instead of this self righteous man humbling himself and realizing his own wretched inability and guilt, he was puffed up in pride, in thinking his obedience to the laws of God, MERITED Gods favor somehow, and so he left sorrowful. Christ was actually exposing that mans true heart by telling him that. Then His disciples ask, who then can be saved?".. Jesus said "with men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Divine Sovereign Grace alone saves. From start to finish. It is Christ and His merits alone that Is the foundation by which a sinner is saved. So how do you and your doctrine of works salvation differ from the self righteous man? Doesn't differ at all

 

[Neogaia777]

Wow. That's an answer, all right, but it's certainly not what the Bible (or Jesus himself) teaches us. If true, this would mean, I think, that faith is not a necessary part of salvation, only good works.

Got any scripture to refute, cause I based that answer off scripture...?

Your wrong about the faith part, it still does take faith, and, it is not about good works either...

God Bless!