First off, just because we are saved does not mean that we can't or don't sin. It means that the bondage to sin we once were under has been broken, but does not mean that we can not or do not sin anymore. Read Romans 7.
The lady you spoke of shows me that she does not have a spirit of forgiveness. Many a person have sinned even after being saved. Most notable id the Rev. Jimmy Swaggert. 3 times he has admitted commiting adultry.
How do we know that this man did not repent of his sin?
There is only one sin that will not be forgiven, and adultry is not it.
But, OSAS teaches that when someone is in the wrong, and they were physically a member, saved, baptized, etc through the Baptist; then .....they weren't really saved.
OSAS, or perseverence does not teach that because you sin, you weren't really saved.
Read the parable of the sower. There are all kinds of people who come to the church, confess, make a show of repenting, but when all is said and done, three classes of supposedly repentant people, did not persevere. Only one class did.
The book of Hebrews says:
"But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then ye are bastards, and not sons." -Heb. 12:8 (KJV)
If we stray from the faith, go out into the world and be as the world, for a time sin has its pleasures. But if you are a son of God, then the Father will chastise you. He will spank you in all that you do until He gets you back to where you once was. Read the parable of the Prodigal Son for this example.
Like I said, yes I do look outside of any doctrine, as that's how your doctrine started in the first place. The RCC was Christianity until Martin Luther challenged them, and separated.
Baptist are an aged doctrine, learned, have very detailed quiz's for being a pastor. Well, so was the Roman Catholic Church. Is one of Martin Luther's contingencies with Catholic's regarding purgatory.
Hmm. Guess he didn't read Maccabees, because that's where it's derived. The doctrine that is of purgatory. Oh guys, just want to note that I am not Catholic, they are much older than the Baptist, and have just as many learned as the Baptist.
Are they right? or wrong? The book we use doesn't even have Maccabees in it for goodness sakes. How can anyone say any one thing is the absolute and correct way.
Here again, you need to take the time to read and study. The primary reason Martin Luther did what he did, was to protest abuses within the Roman Catholic church. Namely, the selling of indulgences. Read his 95 thesis that he nailed to the church door.
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/web/ninetyfive.html
There are several other factors Martin Luther mentions, but the primary reason was the selling of indulgences.
And here again, comparing Baptists with Catholics is like comparing apples with oranges. Yes, they both are fruit, but they are as different as night and day.
Most, not all, but most Protestant denominations place great emphasis on the scriptures. Whereas the others rely more on the teachings of the early church fathers, and the traditions they taught rather than God's revealed word.
Now I don't dispute that some of the early church fathers were heading in the right direction on some things. But none, and I'm including all theologians, none are 100% right, 100% of the time. They do raise some valid points, but to base all doctrine on the words or traditions of men rather than the word of God is wrong. And that is where I fault the Roman Catholic Church. That is where they differ from us. We base our doctrines on what the scriptures teach and say, and the RCC generally reply on the traditions that the ECF's set forth. Right or wrong, if they said it, or did it, then that is policy.
The RCC condems us for our views on Predestination and Perseverence mainly because of John Calvin. But they fail to accept that it was St. Augustine who started these beliefs.
A TREATISE ON THE GIFT OF PERSEVERANCE
by AURELIUS AUGUSTIN, BISHOP OF HIPPO
THE SECOND BOOK.
ADDRESSED TO PROSPER AND HILARY.
AD. 428 OR 429
I HAVE now to consider the subject of perseverance with greater care; for in the former book also I said some things on this subject when I was discussing the beginning of faith. I assert, therefore, that the perseverance by which we persevere in Christ even to the end is the gift of God;
Source
And here:
Treatise On The Predestination of the Saints, BY AURELIUS AUGUSTIN, PASTOR OF HIPPO, NORTH AFRICA.
Source
Have you ever actually sat and wondered why Protestants don't accept the Apocrypha?
Now I could give you a list of related articles which show the errors included in the Apocrypha, but rather than do that, I'll give you one:
http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/111-the-apocrypha-inspired-of-god
And the fact remains the Maccabeeian books have absolutelu nothing, nothing to do with Jesus Christ or the overall theme of the Bible, salvation in Christ. The books of the Maccabees are nothing more than history books. And even at that, they contain errors.
The difference between Catholics and Baptists is that we base our doctrines from scripture.
Ask a Catholic what they teach regarding "baptism" and they will refer you to the teachings of some early church father or a ruling by a council.
For example:
“If any one saith, that little children, for that they have not actual faith, are not, after having received baptism, to be reckoned amongst the faithful; and that, for this cause, they are to be rebaptized when they have attained to years of discretion; or, that it is better that the baptism of such be omitted, than that, while not believing by their own act, they should be bapized in the faith alone of the Church; let him be anathema.”
Council of Trent, Seventh Session, Canon 13.
What this says is "that infants upon baptism are to be reckoned among the faithful" and anyone who disagrees with this teaching the condemnation of "anathema" is upon them. This is a ruling by men, and has no scriptural backing.
Ask a Baptist what we teach regarding the same doctrine, and we'll point you to scripture.
The Council of Trent, the 19th ecumenical council of the Roman Catholic Church, was held at Trent in northern Italy between 1545 and 1563. The purpose of this council was to condemn every heretical teaching of the Protestant sects.
Source
The Bible teaches us that the chief cornerstone of the church is Jesus Christ. The New Testament church was built upon Jesus Christ! Yet ask a Catholic whom the church was built upon and they will all tell you it was Peter.
But like I said, we owe to the Catholic church the doctrine of the "trinity."
They also gave us the canon of scripture. But they absolutely did not give us the bible.
In fact, the Catholic church resisted the Bible being translated into any language other than Latin. In 1382, The first complete English translation of the Bible was made from the Latin Vulgate by John Wycliffe and his followers. All of Wycliffe's works were condemned at the Council of Florence in 1415.
In 1408, the Council of Oxford forbade translations of the Bible into the vernacular unless approved by Church authority.
Between 1484 and 1486, access to the Bible was dramatically increased by Guttenburg's invention of the printing press.
In fact, in 1525 William Tyndale gave the world the Tyndale Bible. In 1536, Tyndale was put to death.
Tyndale's bible was indispensible to the King James translators.
So judge for yourself, are you going to base all your doctrines on what men have taught, or base your doctrines on what the scriptures say?
Once the Devil was walking along with one of his cohorts. They saw a man ahead of them pick up something shiny.
"What did he find?" asked the cohort.
"A piece of the truth," the Devil replied.
"Doesn't it bother you that he found a piece of the truth?" asked the cohort.
"No," said the Devil, "I will see to it that he makes a religion out of it."
Klyne Snodgrass, Between Two Truths - Living with Biblical Tensions, 1990, Zondervan Publishing House, p. 35.
So here again, I urge you to study on what Baptists believe, teach, and preach before you go into the pulpit.
Because I'll be honest with you, if you go inot the pulpit teaching some of the things you have said in here, you'll get run out of most Baptist churches.
So please, take the time to study what we believe.
God Bless
Till all are one.
The whole time, Jacob, and five, you both have been very unhelpful, condemning, and hypocritical of your own faith. Shame on you both.
